House Member
Posts: 3,492 
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
October 12th, 2007, 10:09 PM
I believe that in a modern democratic liberal society choosing not to vote is a perfectly legitimate option. I don't, however, believe that most people who don't vote actually make that choice, they simply don't bother to engage themselves in the democratic process or inform themselves on the issues, and I'd immediately agree that those people have no right to complain about anything. And frankly, I'd prefer that they not vote anyway, they're not informed or engaged and are thus not entitled to an opinion. There are no rights without responsibilities, in my not very humble opinion, and if you won't take your responsibilities as a citizen of a democracy seriously, your opinions on the process and its results are worth nothing.
I believe that in a modern democratic liberal society choosing not to vote is a perfectly legitimate option. I don't, however, believe that most people who don't vote actually make that choice, they simply don't bother to engage themselves in the democratic process or inform themselves on the issues, and I'd immediately agree that those people have no right to complain about anything. And frankly, I'd prefer that they not vote anyway, they're not informed or engaged and are thus not entitled to an opinion. There are no rights without responsibilities, in my not very humble opinion, and if you won't take your responsibilities as a citizen of a democracy seriously, your opinions on the process and its results are worth nothing.
Member
Posts: 144
Location: Calgary
Location: Calgary
October 12th, 2007, 10:43 PM
Talk about a timely thread, the Calgary civic election is Monday and last time around 19% of people voted. With numbers that low a fringe candidate with a solid base could end up winning and cause potential chaos...some would say that happened last time with one of the Catholic Board Trustees (who eventually got barred from meetings, sued the Board and was barred from running this time because of all of the pending lawsuits).
I don't agree with fining or jailing people who don't vote but 19% is way too low.
Talk about a timely thread, the Calgary civic election is Monday and last time around 19% of people voted. With numbers that low a fringe candidate with a solid base could end up winning and cause potential chaos...some would say that happened last time with one of the Catholic Board Trustees (who eventually got barred from meetings, sued the Board and was barred from running this time because of all of the pending lawsuits).
I don't agree with fining or jailing people who don't vote but 19% is way too low.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
October 12th, 2007, 10:44 PM
Here here.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
I believe that in a modern democratic liberal society choosing not to vote is a perfectly legitimate option. I don't, however, believe that most people who don't vote actually make that choice, they simply don't bother to engage themselves in the democratic process or inform themselves on the issues, and I'd immediately agree that those people have no right to complain about anything. And frankly, I'd prefer that they not vote anyway, they're not informed or engaged and are thus not entitled to an opinion. There are no rights without responsibilities, in my not very humble opinion, and if you won't take your responsibilities as a citizen of a democracy seriously, your opinions on the process and its results are worth nothing.
Here here.
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,830
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
October 12th, 2007, 11:49 PM
I think there are probably a considerable amount of people I see that shouldn't be voting for anything. I honestly think there are some people who just could not understand some of the issues in your average election. If they did vote, it would be a very poor decision based on God knows what.
So be careful what you ask for might apply here.
Quoting Sal
You're just a big softy arent ya?
I think anyone who doesn't vote should lose their right to live here followed shorty by execution.
joke...sort of
joke...sort of
I think there are probably a considerable amount of people I see that shouldn't be voting for anything. I honestly think there are some people who just could not understand some of the issues in your average election. If they did vote, it would be a very poor decision based on God knows what.
So be careful what you ask for might apply here.
A modern nomad
Posts: 1,118
Location: Berlin, Germany
Location: Berlin, Germany
October 13th, 2007, 04:33 AM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
On that note, there are people who show up at the polling stations who are even less informed than people that don't show up. Staying informed on democratic issues is sadly difficult, it is the full time job of the members of parliament and the members of the legislative assemblies and generally they only have to stay informed on a few issues at a time. Furthermore, our powers as citizens in a democratic society are certainly not limited to single votes in elections; truth be known we would be utterly powerless if that was the case. If our freedom of expression was granted based on our knowledge and exercise of our full democratic powers, then very few individuals would truly have the right to complain.
I believe that in a modern democratic liberal society choosing not to vote is a perfectly legitimate option. I don't, however, believe that most people who don't vote actually make that choice, they simply don't bother to engage themselves in the democratic process or inform themselves on the issues, and I'd immediately agree that those people have no right to complain about anything. And frankly, I'd prefer that they not vote anyway, they're not informed or engaged and are thus not entitled to an opinion. There are no rights without responsibilities, in my not very humble opinion, and if you won't take your responsibilities as a citizen of a democracy seriously, your opinions on the process and its results are worth nothing.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
October 13th, 2007, 08:38 AM
Scenario:
I voted for a Liberal; my chosen candidate crossed the floor to become a Conservative.
I voted for policies that would address air polution and climate change; Liberals did nothing for fifteen years; Conservatives opted to trade "carbon credits" and examine "carbon dioxide emission intensity".
I voted NDP and the NDP decieded to keep/suppport the Liberals in power (gamble on getting legislation passed) and the "deal" was forgotten immediately by the ruling junta....
Despite all the voting, all the elections and all the rhetoric, the rich get rich on the backs of the poor and the gap between the poor and the wealthy has grown at an unprecedented rate in the past ten years. I voted for healthcare reform....absolutely nothing has changed.
I voted to support human rights and "human rights" in Canada is increasing the number of foodbanks for marginalized folk to turn to when their inadequate salaries leave their children hungry.
I voted for responsible consumerism: WalMart, the Gap, Old Navy, Matel, Fisher Price and countless other multi-nationals import contaminated toys and food and promulgate sweat shops throughout the third world.
Yeah I can see how this voting thing is sooooooo powerful!
Scenario:
I voted for a Liberal; my chosen candidate crossed the floor to become a Conservative.
I voted for policies that would address air polution and climate change; Liberals did nothing for fifteen years; Conservatives opted to trade "carbon credits" and examine "carbon dioxide emission intensity".
I voted NDP and the NDP decieded to keep/suppport the Liberals in power (gamble on getting legislation passed) and the "deal" was forgotten immediately by the ruling junta....
Despite all the voting, all the elections and all the rhetoric, the rich get rich on the backs of the poor and the gap between the poor and the wealthy has grown at an unprecedented rate in the past ten years. I voted for healthcare reform....absolutely nothing has changed.
I voted to support human rights and "human rights" in Canada is increasing the number of foodbanks for marginalized folk to turn to when their inadequate salaries leave their children hungry.
I voted for responsible consumerism: WalMart, the Gap, Old Navy, Matel, Fisher Price and countless other multi-nationals import contaminated toys and food and promulgate sweat shops throughout the third world.
Yeah I can see how this voting thing is sooooooo powerful!
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
October 13th, 2007, 09:06 AM
Scenario: Yes I know it's conceivable that to protect huge multi-nationals inspection routines and standards established by our government to that end are being under-funded and in some cases ignored all together.
Yes I know it won't matter to the average consumer that coffee, tea, many comodities traded internationally and which fill our supermarket shelves are produced by people earning as little as a dollar a day....but as long as I can benefit from their near-slavery....who cares!?
Yes I know it might be safer to purchase products produced and frequently audited by government agencies to protect the consumer against lead and poor (potentially deadly design) but hey toys that are produced in China are much cheaper and if I don't save enough money on my children's toys and my food at the supermarket I won't be able to buy that Made in China, Made in Bangladesh Made in Taiwan made in Chile Made in Indonesia big screen TV and Surround Sound Music Center....
Yes I know that it's important that I vote....
I vote with my dollars.....
Scenario: Yes I know it's conceivable that to protect huge multi-nationals inspection routines and standards established by our government to that end are being under-funded and in some cases ignored all together.
Yes I know it won't matter to the average consumer that coffee, tea, many comodities traded internationally and which fill our supermarket shelves are produced by people earning as little as a dollar a day....but as long as I can benefit from their near-slavery....who cares!?
Yes I know it might be safer to purchase products produced and frequently audited by government agencies to protect the consumer against lead and poor (potentially deadly design) but hey toys that are produced in China are much cheaper and if I don't save enough money on my children's toys and my food at the supermarket I won't be able to buy that Made in China, Made in Bangladesh Made in Taiwan made in Chile Made in Indonesia big screen TV and Surround Sound Music Center....
Yes I know that it's important that I vote....
I vote with my dollars.....
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
October 13th, 2007, 09:09 AM
The key of course it to ensure that there are sufficient numbers of poor people who have far fewer options to purchasing discounted and compromised products so wealthy industrialists can contribute to politicians campaigns....
Wow this voting thing is just sooooooooooo powerful!
The key of course it to ensure that there are sufficient numbers of poor people who have far fewer options to purchasing discounted and compromised products so wealthy industrialists can contribute to politicians campaigns....
Wow this voting thing is just sooooooooooo powerful!
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,830
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
October 13th, 2007, 09:18 AM
Well you know
we all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out, in
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you got a real solution
Well you know
we'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're all doing what we can
If you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
we'd all love to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT
Quoting MikeyDB
You say you want a revolution
Scenario: Yes I know it's conceivable that to protect huge multi-nationals inspection routines and standards established by our government to that end are being under-funded and in some cases ignored all together.
Yes I know it won't matter to the average consumer that coffee, tea, many comodities traded internationally and which fill our supermarket shelves are produced by people earning as little as a dollar a day....but as long as I can benefit from their near-slavery....who cares!?
Yes I know it might be safer to purchase products produced and frequently audited by government agencies to protect the consumer against lead and poor (potentially deadly design) but hey toys that are produced in China are much cheaper and if I don't save enough money on my children's toys and my food at the supermarket I won't be able to buy that Made in China, Made in Bangladesh Made in Taiwan made in Chile Made in Indonesia big screen TV and Surround Sound Music Center....
Yes I know that it's important that I vote....
I vote with my dollars.....
Yes I know it won't matter to the average consumer that coffee, tea, many comodities traded internationally and which fill our supermarket shelves are produced by people earning as little as a dollar a day....but as long as I can benefit from their near-slavery....who cares!?
Yes I know it might be safer to purchase products produced and frequently audited by government agencies to protect the consumer against lead and poor (potentially deadly design) but hey toys that are produced in China are much cheaper and if I don't save enough money on my children's toys and my food at the supermarket I won't be able to buy that Made in China, Made in Bangladesh Made in Taiwan made in Chile Made in Indonesia big screen TV and Surround Sound Music Center....
Yes I know that it's important that I vote....
I vote with my dollars.....
Well you know
we all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out, in
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you got a real solution
Well you know
we'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're all doing what we can
If you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
we'd all love to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,830
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
October 13th, 2007, 09:37 AM
Some must learn through the crucible while few manage to understand the message through a poem. It's important for the message to be there when the light goes on regardless of what flips the switch.
Some must learn through the crucible while few manage to understand the message through a poem. It's important for the message to be there when the light goes on regardless of what flips the switch.
