Afghan Mission

[we_got_oil]

I can't stand Jack Layton but I believe he has the most viable solution to the Afghanistan problem next to the governments. Sure his plan would damage the credibility of Canada in front of our tradational allies aswells as damage our weight in some IGOs that has taken us decades to build up in ever so globalized world where having alittle tiny bit more influence might mean getting something or not but Layton's plan is at least realistic in respect to implentation than the liberals.

Dion wants to "end combat operations" in Afghanistan as of Feb. 2009 and focus on humanatarian assistance and rebuiding the country. He wants to give our soldiers a new mission. What I can't believe is that some people are buying it. No matter how much we focus on developmental assistance there has to be an element of combat operations. Besides what is killing most of our soldeiers in the past few months is not combat operations but daily patroling or a convoy returning or going to a non-combative mission. If there was no combat operations, I'm sure more of our soldiers would be ambushed and killed in this manner. I understand that we have taken a huge burden compared to some other NATO members and we definantly need to be either redoployed to some other area or get some other NATO member to come into our area and share the burden. But that doesn't justify Dion suggesting that we end combat operations in an insugency war; he might aswell sugest what Jack Layton has said, might not be popular but at least it is realistic.

 

[Unforgiven]

Not to mention Afghans need to step up and take control of their own country.
They need to bring the Taliban under control and form both a police force and a military force to deal with law and order through the whole of Afghanistan. That that means the border with Pakistan too. Both countries should be working together with their own people to bring order to the area and end the free passage from one country to the other.

The problem is that always it's us that leaves them to suffer the rage and punishment of the dominant force the flows into to fill the vacuum left when there is a military pull out. We need to make sure that there is a stable government able to weather the storm that will come when we start pulling out, and an infrastructure and standard of living that is worth fighting for.

I see politicians fighting over political points here rather than focusing on the steps that resolve the problem that draw us into this war in the first place and rebuilding what should be there to support the peaceful return to the global community.

I can't stand Jack Layton but I believe he has the most viable solution to the Afghanistan problem next to the governments. Sure his plan would damage the credibility of Canada in front of our traditional allies aswells as damage our weight in some IGOs that has taken us decades to build up in ever so globalized world where having alittle tiny bit more influence might mean getting something or not but Layton's plan is at least realistic in respect to implentation than the liberals.

Dion wants to "end combat operations" in Afghanistan as of Feb. 2009 and focus on humanatarian assistance and rebuiding the country. He wants to give our soldiers a new mission. What I can't believe is that some people are buying it. No matter how much we focus on developmental assistance there has to be an element of combat operations. Besides what is killing most of our soldeiers in the past few months is not combat operations but daily patroling or a convoy returning or going to a non-combative mission. If there was no combat operations, I'm sure more of our soldiers would be ambushed and killed in this manner. I understand that we have taken a huge burden compared to some other NATO members and we definantly need to be either redoployed to some other area or get some other NATO member to come into our area and share the burden. But that doesn't justify Dion suggesting that we end combat operations in an insugency war; he might aswell sugest what Jack Layton has said, might not be popular but at least it is realistic.

 

[darkbeaver]

The Afghan mission is to secure the region for the empire. Reconstruction is a fairy tale for the stupid.
Most of the reconstruction money promised by the coalition of the crooked never got to Afghanistan most of what did was stolen by the western contractors. The Afghan parliament belongs to the Afghan criminals Karsi is CIA and Canadians are dying for rich and powerful capitalists.

 

[Unforgiven]

Business as usual then.

The Afghan mission is to secure the region for the empire. Reconstruction is a fairy tale for the stupid.
Most of the reconstruction money promised by the coalition of the crooked never got to Afghanistan most of what did was stolen by the western contractors. The Afghan parliament belongs to the Afghan criminals Karsi is CIA and Canadians are dying for rich and powerful capitalists.

 

[Zzarchov]

Ug..

seriously...

But I agree, Dion is just making good sounding words to people too busy to know whats going on and to understand what they mean.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Opium is now estimated that 95% of the world's illicit trade is coming from a region occupied by the USA...they call the shots....

I thought it was : used to be 70% now 85%.
some say : used to be 55% now 95%

If this isn't blatant misuse of an ilegal substance by a government i don't know what is....I guess the fact Britain was in on an opium trade for a couple hundred years makes it alright...and the Yankee traders did get in on that near the end.....

Empire building in the age of the internet and global education....interesting......

I remember a time when all this had to be hush hush in order for the populace not to revolt at the morality of it all.....

If i was a heroin dealer up before a judge i would plead I was only doing my duty to support the occupation in Afghanistan...As another note....anyone hear of any huge heroin busts lately...won't either....

if you do ... 1000 kilos on this scale is a drop in the ocean of heroin hitting the streets of the western world....

we're talking thousands of tons of the crap being produced....

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Wow, Doc makes sense for me at last

 

[eh1eh]

Wow, Doc makes sense for me at last

Really? I think that is one of the signs of the apocolypes. ;-)

 

[Zzarchov]

Well Doc, its not that they are encouraging opium, they aren't, they are fighting it..

Its that you can't have a free and open society, and cut down on drugs. Under the Taliban, curbing drug production was easy. You just killed anyone (and their extended family) who MIGHT be growing opium.

Problem solved. Picture how much less pot would be smoked in Canada if the police could just break into your house and/or murder you in the street if they thought you, or someone you know, MIGHT be smoking pot?

Part of a free and open society means higher crime rates.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

I can't stand Jack Layton but I believe he has the most viable solution to the Afghanistan problem next to the governments. Sure his plan would damage the credibility of Canada in front of our tradational allies aswells as damage our weight in some IGOs that has taken us decades to build up in ever so globalized world where having alittle tiny bit more influence might mean getting something or not but Layton's plan is at least realistic in respect to implentation than the liberals.

Dion wants to "end combat operations" in Afghanistan as of Feb. 2009 and focus on humanatarian assistance and rebuiding the country. He wants to give our soldiers a new mission. What I can't believe is that some people are buying it. No matter how much we focus on developmental assistance there has to be an element of combat operations. Besides what is killing most of our soldeiers in the past few months is not combat operations but daily patroling or a convoy returning or going to a non-combative mission. If there was no combat operations, I'm sure more of our soldiers would be ambushed and killed in this manner. I understand that we have taken a huge burden compared to some other NATO members and we definantly need to be either redoployed to some other area or get some other NATO member to come into our area and share the burden. But that doesn't justify Dion suggesting that we end combat operations in an insugency war; he might aswell sugest what Jack Layton has said, might not be popular but at least it is realistic.

Canada has taken on more responsibility than most NATO nations in Afghanistan, why shouldn't we be allowed to go back to a more aid focused mission. Harper has joined the US "War on Terror" nonsense to get brownie points with his idols in DC, and young Canadian soldiers have payed for it.

I think Dion has the best idea, Canada should redeploy to a safer region of Afghanistan and let another nation take on the heavy burden we've been carrying just so Harper can look like a super patriot.

nice username btw- your subtitle should be "we got Global Warming to go with our oil too"

 

[Locutus]

Canada has taken on more responsibility than most NATO nations in Afghanistan, why shouldn't we be allowed to go back to a more aid focused mission. Harper has joined the US "War on Terror" nonsense to get brownie points with his idols in DC, and young Canadian soldiers have payed for it.

I think Dion has the best idea, Canada should redeploy to a safer region of Afghanistan and let another nation take on the heavy burden we've been carrying just so Harper can look like a super patriot.

nice username btw- your subtitle should be "we got Global Warming to go with our oil too"

Don't forget who sent our military over there in the first place.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Don't forget who sent our military over there in the first place.

On a mission to rebuild the country, not jump in bed with Bush who's already proved in Iraq he doesn't have clue what's going on. It takes a true moron to declare victory before the war has really even started.

 

[Locutus]

On a mission to rebuild the country, not jump in bed with Bush who's already proved in Iraq he doesn't have clue what's going on. It takes a true moron to declare victory before the war has really even started.

Not exactly son.


In September 2001, after the September 11 terrorist attacks, Minister of National Defence Art Eggleton advised Governor General Adrienne Clarkson to authorize more than 100 Canadian Forces members serving on military exchange programs in the US and other countries to participate in US operations in Afghanistan, aimed at identifying and neutralizing Al Qaeda members in that country, as well as toppling the Taliban regime which was claimed to be supporting international terrorism.

At the time of the invasion, the Canadian government defined Canada's reasons for participating in the mission Afghanistan as follows:[1]

1. Defend Canada's national interests;
2. Ensure Canadian leadership in world affairs; and
3. Help Afghanistan rebuild.

2001-2002 Initial Deployment

After the attacks on September 11, 2001, the Canadian Forces immediately deployed its elite Special Operations unit Joint Task Force Two. It was used in a vital role in calling airstrikes and directly confronting al-Qaeda and Taliban positions. Once the regular forces were on the ground in January-February 2002 the Canadians were used supporting the war effort until Operation Anaconda began. During the operation, a Canadian sniper team broke, and re-broke, the kill record for a long distance sniper kill set in the Vietnam War by an American Marine. Operation Anaconda was also the first time since the Korean War that Canadian soldiers relieved American soldiers in a combat operation. Although not participating in the opening days of the invasion, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien announced on October 7 that Canada would contribute forces to the international force being formed to conduct a campaign against terrorism. General Ray Henault, the Chief of the Defence Staff issued preliminary orders to several CF units, as Operation Apollo was established. The Canadian commitment was originally planned to last to October 2003.




There's more here if you prefer quick facts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada's_role_in_the_invasion_of_Afghanistan

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Well Doc, its not that they are encouraging opium, they aren't, they are fighting it..

Its that you can't have a free and open society, and cut down on drugs. Under the Taliban, curbing drug production was easy. You just killed anyone (and their extended family) who MIGHT be growing opium.

Problem solved. Picture how much less pot would be smoked in Canada if the police could just break into your house and/or murder you in the street if they thought you, or someone you know, MIGHT be smoking pot?

Part of a free and open society means higher crime rates.

Actually the Taliban allowed the poppy to flourish unhindered. This is where they got their funds....some say they still do...I say they have been cut out and replaced with CIA as their protector.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

@Locutus

That's a lot different that what we're doing now, as I keep pointing out the Liberals have been out of power for over a year and a half and the conservatives have their own screw-ups to take credit for.

The global political and military situation has changed vastly in the last five years and for the conservatives to claim we're locked into a warfighting role in Afghanistan because of Liberal decisions is pure bull****.

As for aid, a lot of what we're supposed to be sending to Afghanistan isn't even getting to the ground there. $13 million dollars for a maternity ward in Kandahar has resulted in a tent, pretty impressive. I guess that's all the Liberals fault too eh?

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=2f7ede64-c804-4cf2-8355-65cbec035d1c

More troubling perhaps for Canadian taxpayers - not to mention military families - is that the Senlis Council found no sign of two major projects, with price tags of more than $13 million, that had been trumpeted by the Canadian International Development Agency when it visited Mirwais earlier this month.

The fact is Harper and his government are more subservient to the Bush admin than even Mulroney was with Regan and it's costing Canadian lives because they won't even have a serious debate for fear of pissing off Bush.

 

[roys_elites]

Dion wants to "end combat operations" in Afghanistan as of Feb. 2009 and focus on humanatarian assistance and rebuiding the country. He wants to give our soldiers a new mission. What I can't believe is that some people are buying it. No matter how much we focus on developmental assistance there has to be an element of combat operations. Besides what is killing most of our soldeiers in the past few months is not combat operations but daily patroling or a convoy returning or going to a non-combative mission. If there was no combat operations, I'm sure more of our soldiers would be ambushed and killed in this manner

Don't much understand what Dion is saying either. If our troops get a "new mission" or non-combat role, it seems likely that we would have to either relocate to another province or move in ally troops willing to take over combat operations in Kandahar while we remain and restrain our role. Who's gonna replace us, Australia and the Netherlands have their handsfull both militarily and politically, and are any other major NATO powers other than the US and Britan willing to step up? I have heard some musing about France possibly changing their role, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Personally I think we are capable and shouldn't follow our other so called allies who are unwilling to provide relief to those carrying the heavy burden in the south.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Don't much understand what Dion is saying either. If our troops get a "new mission" or non-combat role, it seems likely that we would have to either relocate to another province or move in ally troops willing to take over combat operations in Kandahar while we remain and restrain our role. Who's gonna replace us, Australia and the Netherlands have their handsfull both militarily and politically, and are any other major NATO powers other than the US and Britan willing to step up? I have heard some musing about France possibly changing their role, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Personally I think we are capable and shouldn't follow our other so called allies who are unwilling to provide relief to those carrying the heavy burden in the south.

Canadian forces have already relocated from the north to the much more dangerous south, there's nothing to stop us from doing the reverse. If other NATO members aren't willing to take over our responsibilities in Kandahar we should just pack up and head home. What are we really accomplishing there anyway, the Karzi government is never going to gain control of the Pushtun areas because of regional animosities and the Pakistan government doesn't want it to succeed. The Taliban was at it's low point in 2002, it's not going to be defeated by force of arms now.

The only thing that really seems to improve in Afghanistan is opium production, some progress for all the lives we've lost.

 

[we_got_oil]

For all that disagree and believe we should just pack up and go home, well that is a fair judgement in the sense that it is something that is physicaly possible unlike Dion's plans, however what would you suggest to the arguement in my opening statement that it would devastate our influence with certain international issues, allies and IGOS?

nice username btw- your subtitle should be "we got Global Warming to go with our oil too"

AGREED