September 1st, 2007, 07:07 PM
The problem isn't so much with our laws, we have plenty of them, it's the namby pamby, revolving door liberal judges who want to make a 'legacy' for themselves. They think a hug and a time-out will cause the bad guys to go straight. Appointed judges are answerable to no one so what's to stop them. Not our current batch of spineless Canadian politicians that's for sure. The next few generations are in for a world of hurt.
MONTREAL (CP) - War criminals on the lam are sheltered from international justice by Canada's lumbering, ineffective legal system, charges a former intelligence analyst in the RCMP war crimes unit. Canada has been a popular destination for those fleeing recent conflicts in the Balkans and Rwanda, but former intelligence officials and international lawyers question whether Ottawa has the resources to weed out those ducking prosecution.
"If I were working as a consultant for war criminals, what I would tell them is that Canada is probably the best place to go in terms of avoiding prosecution and in terms of avoiding deportation," Tom Quiggin, an ex-intelligence analyst for the war crimes units of both the RCMP and Citizenship and Immigration, told The Canadian Press.
Rwandan officials maintain that five accused ring leaders of the Rwandan genocide are at large in Canada. One of them, Leon Mugesera, is facing a deportation order. Rwanda has sent extradition requests and arrest warrants for him and the others.
Quiggin, who also served as an intelligence analyst for the International War Crimes Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, says the number of suspected modern war criminals in Canada reaches well into the thousands.
According to a government report released earlier this year, the Justice Department and the RCMP were dealing with a total of 57 modern war crime files as of March 31, 2006.
"The whole point of the Canadian immigration system is to get people into the country," says Quiggin.
"It has very little focus on how do we get people out of the country when we suddenly discover we have a few bad apples in with the rest."
In recent weeks, the RCMP has opened itself to accusations that its investigations of suspected war criminals are misguided.
On Aug. 17, Canada's Immigration and Review Board put an end to attempts to deport a 34-year-old government lawyer and Rwandan refugee.
The RCMP accused the man, whose name is protected by court order, of lying about his participation in the 1994 genocide.
But their efforts to have the man kicked out of the country were cut short when it was alleged federal officials withheld evidence that would clear the man.
Defence lawyer Lorne Waldman says the RCMP interviewed 15 witnesses in Rwanda while investigating a series of war crime cases in 2002.
While some of the statements clear his client, he said the RCMP only presented incriminating summaries of three interviews.
"Next to what I lived through (in) the genocide, this was excruciating," the refugee, an Ottawa resident, says about his fight to clear his name.
"What needs to be looked at is how the information about war criminals is collected, how it is analyzed internally and how it's used within the tribunals," he told The Canadian Press. "I think that is where the problem really is."
Since 1998, Ottawa has made a concerted effort to change the perception that the country is soft on war criminals.
The government set aside $15.6 million that year to expand the scope of the War Crimes Program - a joint force of RCMP, Citizenship and Immigration and Justice Department officials - to include suspects from modern conflicts.
But funding for the program hasn't increased in a decade, leading some to criticize the government's commitment.
"It seems that there are very limited resources available for ensuring that war criminals do not end up in Canada or that if they are in Canada they are prosecuted," says Payam Akhavan, a McGill University law professor and former legal adviser to the international criminal tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia.
Quiggin says the RCMP has too few investigators assigned to the program while the Justice Department has too many lawyers for a relatively modest case load.
"There is a severe mismatch of resources," he says. "The number of investigators is quite limited, the number of cases is quite large and each case is quite complex because you have hundreds of witnesses literally scattered all over the planet."
An RCMP spokesperson indicated there are as many as 11 officers assigned to its war crimes unit at any given time.
Among the problems that face government lawyers trying to deport suspected war criminals is getting evidence collected abroad admitted in Canadian courts.
Defence lawyers in the ongoing trial of Desire Munyaneza, a failed refugee claimant from Rwanda who is the first person to be tried under Canada's war crimes and crimes against humanity law, have argued some of the Crown's evidence does not meet Canadian standards of justice.
In Quiggin's opinion these standards are often unreasonably high.
"Our standards of evidence are geared in such a way that they can't accept information from other court systems or other investigation systems around the world," he says. "But most of the crimes that occur have in fact occurred overseas."
Yet Quiggin stresses that the War Crimes Program has had its successes. He credits it with being able to significantly limit the number suspected war criminals who tried to enter Canada following the Balkan conflicts of the 1990s.
This year's annual report of the War Crimes Program says since 1998, 3,360 people have been turned away because of past involvement in war crimes, crimes against humanity or genocide.
The report adds that 408 suspects have been removed from Canada during that time.
Akhavan warns of the danger for Canada and the international community to give the impression war criminals can easily avoid justice.
"In order to change the cost-benefit calculus of using violence as an instrument of power, we need to ensure that perpetrators are held accountable."
The Canadian Press, 2007
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=2
The problem isn't so much with our laws, we have plenty of them, it's the namby pamby, revolving door liberal judges who want to make a 'legacy' for themselves. They think a hug and a time-out will cause the bad guys to go straight. Appointed judges are answerable to no one so what's to stop them. Not our current batch of spineless Canadian politicians that's for sure. The next few generations are in for a world of hurt.
MONTREAL (CP) - War criminals on the lam are sheltered from international justice by Canada's lumbering, ineffective legal system, charges a former intelligence analyst in the RCMP war crimes unit. Canada has been a popular destination for those fleeing recent conflicts in the Balkans and Rwanda, but former intelligence officials and international lawyers question whether Ottawa has the resources to weed out those ducking prosecution.
"If I were working as a consultant for war criminals, what I would tell them is that Canada is probably the best place to go in terms of avoiding prosecution and in terms of avoiding deportation," Tom Quiggin, an ex-intelligence analyst for the war crimes units of both the RCMP and Citizenship and Immigration, told The Canadian Press.
Rwandan officials maintain that five accused ring leaders of the Rwandan genocide are at large in Canada. One of them, Leon Mugesera, is facing a deportation order. Rwanda has sent extradition requests and arrest warrants for him and the others.
Quiggin, who also served as an intelligence analyst for the International War Crimes Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, says the number of suspected modern war criminals in Canada reaches well into the thousands.
According to a government report released earlier this year, the Justice Department and the RCMP were dealing with a total of 57 modern war crime files as of March 31, 2006.
"The whole point of the Canadian immigration system is to get people into the country," says Quiggin.
"It has very little focus on how do we get people out of the country when we suddenly discover we have a few bad apples in with the rest."
In recent weeks, the RCMP has opened itself to accusations that its investigations of suspected war criminals are misguided.
On Aug. 17, Canada's Immigration and Review Board put an end to attempts to deport a 34-year-old government lawyer and Rwandan refugee.
The RCMP accused the man, whose name is protected by court order, of lying about his participation in the 1994 genocide.
But their efforts to have the man kicked out of the country were cut short when it was alleged federal officials withheld evidence that would clear the man.
Defence lawyer Lorne Waldman says the RCMP interviewed 15 witnesses in Rwanda while investigating a series of war crime cases in 2002.
While some of the statements clear his client, he said the RCMP only presented incriminating summaries of three interviews.
"Next to what I lived through (in) the genocide, this was excruciating," the refugee, an Ottawa resident, says about his fight to clear his name.
"What needs to be looked at is how the information about war criminals is collected, how it is analyzed internally and how it's used within the tribunals," he told The Canadian Press. "I think that is where the problem really is."
Since 1998, Ottawa has made a concerted effort to change the perception that the country is soft on war criminals.
The government set aside $15.6 million that year to expand the scope of the War Crimes Program - a joint force of RCMP, Citizenship and Immigration and Justice Department officials - to include suspects from modern conflicts.
But funding for the program hasn't increased in a decade, leading some to criticize the government's commitment.
"It seems that there are very limited resources available for ensuring that war criminals do not end up in Canada or that if they are in Canada they are prosecuted," says Payam Akhavan, a McGill University law professor and former legal adviser to the international criminal tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia.
Quiggin says the RCMP has too few investigators assigned to the program while the Justice Department has too many lawyers for a relatively modest case load.
"There is a severe mismatch of resources," he says. "The number of investigators is quite limited, the number of cases is quite large and each case is quite complex because you have hundreds of witnesses literally scattered all over the planet."
An RCMP spokesperson indicated there are as many as 11 officers assigned to its war crimes unit at any given time.
Among the problems that face government lawyers trying to deport suspected war criminals is getting evidence collected abroad admitted in Canadian courts.
Defence lawyers in the ongoing trial of Desire Munyaneza, a failed refugee claimant from Rwanda who is the first person to be tried under Canada's war crimes and crimes against humanity law, have argued some of the Crown's evidence does not meet Canadian standards of justice.
In Quiggin's opinion these standards are often unreasonably high.
"Our standards of evidence are geared in such a way that they can't accept information from other court systems or other investigation systems around the world," he says. "But most of the crimes that occur have in fact occurred overseas."
Yet Quiggin stresses that the War Crimes Program has had its successes. He credits it with being able to significantly limit the number suspected war criminals who tried to enter Canada following the Balkan conflicts of the 1990s.
This year's annual report of the War Crimes Program says since 1998, 3,360 people have been turned away because of past involvement in war crimes, crimes against humanity or genocide.
The report adds that 408 suspects have been removed from Canada during that time.
Akhavan warns of the danger for Canada and the international community to give the impression war criminals can easily avoid justice.
"In order to change the cost-benefit calculus of using violence as an instrument of power, we need to ensure that perpetrators are held accountable."
The Canadian Press, 2007
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=2
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 6,261 
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
September 1st, 2007, 07:49 PM
"Mamby-pamby" judges? Or is it a policy that won't allow extradition back to where they did their crimes if they're going to face execution? We wouldn't be so attractive if they knew they weren't going to get away with it....
Wolf
"Mamby-pamby" judges? Or is it a policy that won't allow extradition back to where they did their crimes if they're going to face execution? We wouldn't be so attractive if they knew they weren't going to get away with it....
Wolf
Clever Clogs
Posts: 634
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
September 1st, 2007, 08:42 PM
Not only war criminals but would be terrorists. I can't remember his name, I think it is Adhr a Canadian born Afghani. I understand that he was born Canadian so we have no choice. However at the time that he was arrested his family were in their homeland and were supporters and he father was fighting for el Queada, but when he was killed the family returned to Canada and are now living in Kingston, On. on welfare. This guy is now an adult and if he wants to live in Canada he does not need his el Queada supporting family with him.
Sometimes I wonder if our politicians have their heads screwed on backwards.
Not only war criminals but would be terrorists. I can't remember his name, I think it is Adhr a Canadian born Afghani. I understand that he was born Canadian so we have no choice. However at the time that he was arrested his family were in their homeland and were supporters and he father was fighting for el Queada, but when he was killed the family returned to Canada and are now living in Kingston, On. on welfare. This guy is now an adult and if he wants to live in Canada he does not need his el Queada supporting family with him.
Sometimes I wonder if our politicians have their heads screwed on backwards.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,995
Location: Florida, Hurricane Central
Location: Florida, Hurricane Central
September 1st, 2007, 08:49 PM
Criminal gangs committing telephone fraud set up in Canada and call into the US because they know if they get caught, they'll receive about a tenth of a sentence they would had they set up in America.
Criminal gangs committing telephone fraud set up in Canada and call into the US because they know if they get caught, they'll receive about a tenth of a sentence they would had they set up in America.
Electoral Member
Posts: 676
September 1st, 2007, 09:07 PM
Quoting Toro
Wow, Canada is modern fairy world :P
Criminal gangs committing telephone fraud set up in Canada and call into the US because they know if they get caught, they'll receive about a tenth of a sentence they would had they set up in America.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 6,261
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
September 1st, 2007, 09:10 PM
Wolf
Quoting Toro
Umm ... tried any mail-order from California? If you get any war criminals calling you - worry.
Criminal gangs committing telephone fraud set up in Canada and call into the US because they know if they get caught, they'll receive about a tenth of a sentence they would had they set up in America.
Wolf
September 2nd, 2007, 06:19 AM
You couldn't be any closer to the truth if you tried even harder. This country is circling the bowl, ever so slowly. All Thanx to Liberal minded Judges and fringe elements being heard and taken seriously. I find it all to disturbing and hypocritical...
These same Judges find in favour of multi culture, over ride our rights and tradition, in favour of those that would force their wishes on the masses. And yet...They won't honour the traditions of other Nations, because they find them morally reprehencable...Fine... but you shouldn't be allowed to pick and chose what rights and traditions you are going to up hold. It's either or...
This practice of supposed "Moral" Justice by our court system has gone on long enough and with such impunity, that we are going to become the destination for hardend criminal elements and war criminals from the world over...It's already reared its ugly head, from a couple of Mohammed Farah Adid's wives living off welfare in Ontario to Leon Mugesera, who allegedly used the rhetoric of violence and aggression to rally his fellow Hutus into slaughtering the Tutsi minority in Rwanda.
Both countries, our Armed Forces sought to and fought to assist...
Pathetic...
It is high time that the politicians in this country envoked the Not withstanding clause and irradicated this abuse or our system. It's high time these Judges were held to the candle and held accountable for their actions.
I ask this...Is it better a country grit its moral teeth and send a man to face his accuser and possibly pay the ultimate price?
Or
Is it better that it w h o r e itself out and allow itself to be used in the name of a misguided moral standard?
Quoting Locutus
I take it that avatar is who you served with...So no wonder you have clear vision and straight shot thoughts...
The problem isn't so much with our laws, we have plenty of them, it's the namby pamby, revolving door liberal judges who want to make a 'legacy' for themselves. They think a hug and a time-out will cause the bad guys to go straight. Appointed judges are answerable to no one so what's to stop them. Not our current batch of spineless Canadian politicians that's for sure. The next few generations are in for a world of hurt.
You couldn't be any closer to the truth if you tried even harder. This country is circling the bowl, ever so slowly. All Thanx to Liberal minded Judges and fringe elements being heard and taken seriously. I find it all to disturbing and hypocritical...
These same Judges find in favour of multi culture, over ride our rights and tradition, in favour of those that would force their wishes on the masses. And yet...They won't honour the traditions of other Nations, because they find them morally reprehencable...Fine... but you shouldn't be allowed to pick and chose what rights and traditions you are going to up hold. It's either or...
This practice of supposed "Moral" Justice by our court system has gone on long enough and with such impunity, that we are going to become the destination for hardend criminal elements and war criminals from the world over...It's already reared its ugly head, from a couple of Mohammed Farah Adid's wives living off welfare in Ontario to Leon Mugesera, who allegedly used the rhetoric of violence and aggression to rally his fellow Hutus into slaughtering the Tutsi minority in Rwanda.
Both countries, our Armed Forces sought to and fought to assist...
Pathetic...
It is high time that the politicians in this country envoked the Not withstanding clause and irradicated this abuse or our system. It's high time these Judges were held to the candle and held accountable for their actions.
I ask this...Is it better a country grit its moral teeth and send a man to face his accuser and possibly pay the ultimate price?
Or
Is it better that it w h o r e itself out and allow itself to be used in the name of a misguided moral standard?
Council Member
Posts: 1,202
Location: Montreal
Location: Montreal
September 2nd, 2007, 12:03 PM
Quoting I think not
The last Die Hard movie confirms your statement.
War criminal haven is France, not Canada.
September 2nd, 2007, 01:57 PM
Quoting YoungJoonKim
It's like that in Kebec too...That's what ya get when Napolionic Law is your model of justice...
I heard in France, you are convicted CRIMINAL unless you can prove you are innocent.
Time Out
Posts: 3,867
Videos: 1
Location: Honour our Fallen
Videos: 1
Location: Honour our Fallen
September 2nd, 2007, 06:22 PM
Our day care centres are raging terrorist training camps...it's really hard to find one that doesn't indocrtinate your child in extremists terrorist activity.....
It's the new front line on the war on terror...
Our day care centres are raging terrorist training camps...it's really hard to find one that doesn't indocrtinate your child in extremists terrorist activity.....
It's the new front line on the war on terror...
