An open letter to Jack Layton

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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An open letter to Jack Layton
This email was sent on to MP Jack Layton. After hearing his inflammatory statements I have again attempted to communicate my concerns onto him. I would urge anyone who agrees with me send a letter off to Mr. Layton expressing their concerns at Layton.J@parl.gc.ca or snail mail following this post.


Dear Mr. Layton:

I am sending this open letter in the hope you will refrain from using terms such as hopeless and unwinnable when referring to the mission in Afghanistan. I know that you wish our soldiers no ill will, but your words can have a devastating effect on the morale of our troops in the field.

They did not choose to be there Mr. Layton, they’re simply performing their duties as soldiers and whether you disagree or agree with the mission is really quite irrelevant to doing your part in supporting them. Saying that you support the troops runs contrary to statements you have made over the last six months, before you discard this email as just another war supporter let me explain how I find your actions contrary to one who shows support.

As much as this is a war between factions it is also a war of propaganda and what you say and do here at home can adversely affect the lives of Canadian soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan. Morale is one issue. Think of the Canadian soldier in the field who has just lost one of their comrades to an improvised explosive device. Today they bow their head in grief, but tomorrow they are expected to perform their duties and must venture out into harm’s way. How do you think that soldier will feel when he or she reads the news from home via the internet and that one of the leaders of the opposition is referring to their mission as hopeless? Perhaps compounded by the grief and the negative comments of Canadian Politicians will result in him or her not seeing the next IED, missing an impending ambush or targeting an innocent bystander or civilian. Misery loves company Mr. Layton and believe me that when I say that negative comments such as yours can have a frightening affect on soldiers in the field. Whether or not one agrees with the mission we must understand that those are Canada's sons and daughters over there and we should be weary of what we do or say.

Using words like unwinnable or hopeless serves as propaganda for the Taliban to use for recruitment and heed the cry of battle. Propaganda is a very effective tool used by the enemy and you should not allow yourself to be exploited by the adversaries of Canadian soldiers. While you decry how utterly hopeless the situation is and how we are killing civilians you empower an enemy that is prone to use civilians as human shields. There is a method to this madness and that method involves breaking the resolve of the Canadian people and demoralizing the soldiers. The last thing we need Mr. Layton is Canadian officials helping the Taliban on their quest to spread hate and propaganda. They do this well on their own.

If you want our soldiers to come home and withdraw from the mission in Afghanistan I encourage you to put forward as many motions as you like. Urge you to work in Government to bring voice to your agenda. This is what our soldiers are fighting for Mr. Layton, but personal responsibility on your part would be greatly appreciated. If you would like to further harm our soldiers and embolden our enemy you need only carry on making inflammatory statements which include catch phrases such as “unwinnable or hopeless.”

If you truly support our soldiers and you care about the families of these outstanding Canadians I would ask you to use your words more carefully in the future. As a retired soldier and father of two young men who serve this country I implore you to exercise common sense and decency when making reference to our soldiers in harm’s way.

RCS

Contact Jack Layton via snail mail or by phone at:

Jack Layton, M.P.
Leader of the NDP
House of Commons
Ottawa, ON
Canada
K1A 0A6 Phone Number (613) 995-7224 Fax Number (613) 995-4565

Mailing Address - Constituency Office
Jack Layton, M.P.
Leader of the NDP
1506 Danforth Ave
Toronto, ON
Canada
M4J 1N4 Phone Number (416) 405-8914 Fax Number (416) 405-8918
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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I agree with that, but you don't got a name?

I'm Allister, and thank you for your service on my behalf.
 
May 28, 2007
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Honour our Fallen
You know people forget we are at war.
There is suppossed to be a thing called the war effort, like in WWWI and WWWII.

If we send our troops to fight in war then we are suppossed to aid the war effort.
Sometimes keeping ones yap closed is enough.
Loose lips sinks ships, and all that sort of thing.


I'm goona send the above i just posted omitting this part
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
Sorry, can't go along with it at all. Sounds like George Bush, over the past few years. Anyone who
dares to disagree with the troops being in Iraq, he accuses of being non patriotic and not supporting
the troops. I don't agree with that at all.

The troops are intelligent adults, and they all realize that there will be many who don't support them
'being there', but they do support them as' individuals', and there is a big difference.
They just want them to come home.

It is anyones right, just as it is anyone's right to support them 'being' there.
 
May 28, 2007
3,866
67
48
Honour our Fallen
Sorry, can't go along with it at all. Sounds like George Bush, over the past few years. Anyone who
dares to disagree with the troops being in Iraq, he accuses of being non patriotic and not supporting
the troops. I don't agree with that at all.

The troops are intelligent adults, and they all realize that there will be many who don't support them
'being there', but they do support them as' individuals', and there is a big difference.
They just want them to come home.

It is anyones right, just as it is anyone's right to support them 'being' there.
Well it's a huge difference when an opposition leader is doing this sort of thing , whilst we are at war, for his own ends.
It's one thing for them to say we do not believe in this war. But to psychologically downgrade their position in the field even in the slightest is just wrong....

during a football game, with adults playing, what sort of pep talk would that be....
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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If I were in a position where my voice might make a difference and thought the strategy being employed is not worth the risk it would be irresponsible of me not to say something as often and effectively as I could, particularly if as in Layton's case it was the only means at my disposal, as much as it is.

I don't like his style either but I'll be damned if I try to turn a free speech issue into a false moral dilema because that is nonsense. The troops don't need a pep talk out of Ottawa. They need a better brand of leadership.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Twice now Layton has been given the opportunity to fully debate the mission in parliament and both times he basically didn't. But anytime there has been an incident resulting in deaths he has headed for the cameras to demand it all be stopped. So far his tactics have been tantamount to political ambulance chasing. He certainly has a right to free speech but he's also an elected member of parliament. He's done well with the free speech but not so well with his elected responsibilities.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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...So far his tactics have been tantamount to political ambulance chasing...

Too true and at the very least it certainly comes off that way. Not to make excuses for him but I think somewhere within the jumble of his limited exposure in the media, current news gathering methods and his propensity for the dramatic, the impression of his opportunism tends to exaggerate itself, but true nonetheless.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
Agreed with Kreskin and BitWhys on the "ambulance chasing"... it just comes out looking kinda bad- personally I am no fairweather friend of the "mission", I am as against it now as I was when it began.

One thing that got NO play over the past couple days (mostly due to the "Ambulance" effect no doubt) is the call by Layton to ask Harper to perhaps indicate that high-altitude bombing wasn't helping anyone- I would think that if "helping them rebuild" was our goal that one would be somewhat of a "no-brainer", as raining death from on high is the polar opposite of "building democracy" and the effect is to turn more and more folks against us over there, which sould be avoided wherever possible- seems the dollar intensive nature of carpet bombing makes it hard to resist tho
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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Harper will say nothing negative about "the mission". He never has and he never will. His and his gaggle of bobblehead's approach to the matter is that CNG®'s role towards the effort and the den of thieves its supports is strictly limited to feeding the blackbox as a matter of policy.

Go get the fire department
To bring that hose along
And them and the schoolboy bandits
Can water each other's lawn
Oh --
It's going down slow
It's going down slow
- Bruce Cockburn

Now shut up and cheer.
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
58
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Leiden, the Netherlands

I am sending this open letter in the hope you will refrain from using terms such as hopeless and unwinnable when referring to the mission in Afghanistan. I know that you wish our soldiers no ill will, but your words can have a devastating effect on the morale of our troops in the field.

I have never in my life believed that lying to a person to make them feel better was a good idea. Here is an Abraham Lincoln for you: "How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."
They did not choose to be there Mr. Layton, they’re simply performing their duties as soldiers and whether you disagree or agree with the mission is really quite irrelevant to doing your part in supporting them. Saying that you support the troops runs contrary to statements you have made over the last six months, before you discard this email as just another war supporter let me explain how I find your actions contrary to one who shows support.

When you sign up for the military, that is when you make the choice to go to war. Layton clearly supports the troops: he believes the Afghanistan mission has no clear objectives and he doesn't want our troops getting killed for nothing. Is there anything less supportive than trying to save lives?
As much as this is a war between factions it is also a war of propaganda and what you say and do here at home can adversely affect the lives of Canadian soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan. Morale is one issue. Think of the Canadian soldier in the field who has just lost one of their comrades to an improvised explosive device. Today they bow their head in grief, but tomorrow they are expected to perform their duties and must venture out into harm’s way. How do you think that soldier will feel when he or she reads the news from home via the internet and that one of the leaders of the opposition is referring to their mission as hopeless? Perhaps compounded by the grief and the negative comments of Canadian Politicians will result in him or her not seeing the next IED, missing an impending ambush or targeting an innocent bystander or civilian. Misery loves company Mr. Layton and believe me that when I say that negative comments such as yours can have a frightening affect on soldiers in the field. Whether or not one agrees with the mission we must understand that those are Canada's sons and daughters over there and we should be weary of what we do or say.

Perhaps that soldier will feel hope that he or she is going home soon. Perhaps that soldier will feel hope that the mission will end soon and no more of their comrades will die for a war without cause.

Using words like unwinnable or hopeless serves as propaganda for the Taliban to use for recruitment and heed the cry of battle. Propaganda is a very effective tool used by the enemy and you should not allow yourself to be exploited by the adversaries of Canadian soldiers. While you decry how utterly hopeless the situation is and how we are killing civilians you empower an enemy that is prone to use civilians as human shields. There is a method to this madness and that method involves breaking the resolve of the Canadian people and demoralizing the soldiers. The last thing we need Mr. Layton is Canadian officials helping the Taliban on their quest to spread hate and propaganda. They do this well on their own.

So we should mislead our own citizens so that the Taliban will have trouble finding people insane enough to blow themselves up? Somehow I think ideological propaganda plays into their hands more than our political discussions at home.
If you want our soldiers to come home and withdraw from the mission in Afghanistan I encourage you to put forward as many motions as you like. Urge you to work in Government to bring voice to your agenda. This is what our soldiers are fighting for Mr. Layton, but personal responsibility on your part would be greatly appreciated. If you would like to further harm our soldiers and embolden our enemy you need only carry on making inflammatory statements which include catch phrases such as “unwinnable or hopeless.”

You allow him to argue against the war on the one hand, but deny him the political tools of rhetoric on the other hand. I guess for Layton, you think the saying should go: "You can't have your cake, or eat it, either."
If you truly support our soldiers and you care about the families of these outstanding Canadians I would ask you to use your words more carefully in the future. As a retired soldier and father of two young men who serve this country I implore you to exercise common sense and decency when making reference to our soldiers in harm’s way.

Layton has a lot of common sense. He has many times in the House of Commons asked the government what the objectives of the Afghanistan mission are. Each time he got hazy details, with no clear plan of action. If this war has no clear objectives, than how will we ever know that it is over? That is why the war is unwinnable, and that is why we need to get the troops out.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and lives like a duck - call it a duck. Don't call it a swan because people don't like ducks. This is a democracy and to have an open and earnest discussion about this war and where the troops should be - in Afghanistan or in their homes - you might have to face the fact that this war has no clear objectives.

Lies are not support. A house built on lies will fall, don't build the house of our troop's lives with lies.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,360
572
113
59
Alberta
Lies are not support? I'm not asking him to lie. I'm not even asking him to change his agenda. I'm simply asking him to choose his words with more care. By the way, Jacks not right, he's a coward. He has never responded to a single query I've made and is gutless when it comes to open debate.

I consider him just another Sven Robinson in love with himself and willing to be an exhibitionist to get headlines. His approach and that of his party is why they will never run this Country.

Finally, I tried reasoning with him.

Too the others I thank you for your kind words and I did sign it with my name rank and address as well as phone number.

I just won't hold my breath waiting for a reply.

Cheers
M
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
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Saint John, N.B.
Sorry, can't go along with it at all. Sounds like George Bush, over the past few years. Anyone who
dares to disagree with the troops being in Iraq, he accuses of being non patriotic and not supporting
the troops. I don't agree with that at all.

The troops are intelligent adults, and they all realize that there will be many who don't support them
'being there', but they do support them as' individuals', and there is a big difference.
They just want them to come home.

It is anyones right, just as it is anyone's right to support them 'being' there.

I agree.

At the same time, Jack is a complete idiot.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
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I agree.

At the same time, Jack is a complete idiot.

I wouldn't call him a complete idiot, more of a PR klutz. He has the most peculiar way of constantly managing to miss the mark.

Arthur Kent published a whopper in the IRPP. Its well worth the read for anyone interested in an alternative to the newswire stovepipes. Not the sort of thing that attracts big name advertising contracts.

Covering up Karzai & Co
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Well it's a huge difference when an opposition leader is doing this sort of thing , whilst we are at war, for his own ends.
It's one thing for them to say we do not believe in this war. But to psychologically downgrade their position in the field even in the slightest is just wrong....

during a football game, with adults playing, what sort of pep talk would that be....

Well of course it's the opposition, it's always the opposition, and if the tables were turned it would
be the conservatives saying the same thing, it's always politics.
But it is also politics when the government calls them unpatriotic in return, they don't really think
that, they just say it, cause it sounds good.

I'm sure the soldiers on the field have a good laugh at both their expenses.

It's the same ole same ole, that's been going on for many many wars.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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I don't see why one can't be against a particular war but still support the troops. The troops go where the government in power sends them. In a democracy you don't have to agree with the government.
 
May 28, 2007
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Honour our Fallen
I don't see why one can't be against a particular war but still support the troops. The troops go where the government in power sends them. In a democracy you don't have to agree with the government.

well i think the point in this thread is whether it's a good idea for a politician with the media at his beck and call to notsend the wrong message to the troops....
With the global village being what it is...
One should be more carefull in giving the troops the impression they are loseing their brothers and sister for nothing....
That they are in fact he said It's hopeless is not doing anyone's moral any good over there......

It's inept of him to grand stand like this and cause this sort of moral deflater.......