Between Joe Clark and Stephen Harper- who will historically go down as better?

[CDN87]

Who do you think will be ranked higher in the list of Prime Ministers from best to worst? These two (Clark and Harper) are extremely similar in the government they controlled (minority), age at which they became Prime Minister (around 40, which is extremely amateur when dealing with politics), and both are from Alberta.

Harper has messed the Canadian environment beyond repair by rejecting Kyoto, so I think Clark will be ranked higher.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Harper has messed the Canadian environment beyond repair by rejecting Kyoto,/quote]

Harper messed our environment beyond repair in a matter of a year? Right...

 

[darkbeaver]

Joe Clark was a real conservative a fine parlimentarian and a good honest man , Harper is a fascist pig.
:wave:

 

[blugoo]

If Harper messed up the environment in a year, what did the Liberals do in their 10+ years of majority governments?

Everyone knows Kyoto is unattainable. Even Liberals...they are just trying to embarrass the government and score political points with their meaningless motion.

Even if Dion were to become Prime Minister, he couldn't implement Kyoto, either. It's not doable. Something he must of realized in his years is government, when he didn't do anything in terms of making Kyoto a reality, either.

At least Stephen Harper is trying to get something achievable done. Dion and the Liberals made unkeepable promises and didn't come close to keeping them.

Anyway, Harper has already proven himself more of a capable Prime Minister than Clark was.

 

[#juan]

If Harper messed up the environment in a year, what did the Liberals do in their 10+ years of majority governments?

Everyone knows Kyoto is unattainable. Even Liberals...they are just trying to embarrass the government and score political points with their meaningless motion.

Even if Dion were to become Prime Minister, he couldn't implement Kyoto, either. It's not doable. Something he must of realized in his years is government, when he didn't do anything in terms of making Kyoto a reality, either.

At least Stephen Harper is trying to get something achievable done. Dion and the Liberals made unkeepable promises and didn't come close to keeping them.

Anyway, Harper has already proven himself more of a capable Prime Minister than Clark was.

What people have to understand, is that we damn well must make it doable. We don't have a choice if we want to leave any kind of livable world to our grandchildren. Harper is just jumping on a bandwagon that he fought tooth and nail against since he was elected leader.

 

[blugoo]

What people have to understand, is that we damn well must make it doable. We don't have a choice if we want to leave any kind of livable world to our grandchildren. Harper is just jumping on a bandwagon that he fought tooth and nail against since he was elected leader.

Yes, Harper jumped on the bandwagon...but so what? He's doing what a majority want him to do - take action on the environment. Admirable in a politician, actually listening to the people, even if that differs a little from his own view. And if he delivers results, what does the personal motivation matter?

As to those results, I'd rather have a little bit of something (Conservative plan) than a great deal of nothing. (Liberal plan)

A few smaller, actionable steps to reduce emissions and protect the environment, are still better than talking big and delivering absolutely nothing.

 

[Northboy]

Joe Clark was a real conservative a fine parlimentarian and a good honest man , Harper is a fascist pig.
:wave:

With a little more seasoning, could Harper become another Joe Clark??

I think we could use one right about now...

 

[Toro]

Clark was a nice guy who wasn't particularly competent at his chosen profession.

 

[Canucklehead]

Yes, Harper jumped on the bandwagon...but so what? He's doing what a majority want him to do - take action on the environment. Admirable in a politician, actually listening to the people, even if that differs a little from his own view. And if he delivers results, what does the personal motivation matter?

As to those results, I'd rather have a little bit of something (Conservative plan) than a great deal of nothing. (Liberal plan)

A few smaller, actionable steps to reduce emissions and protect the environment, are still better than talking big and delivering absolutely nothing.

Action, you say? 8-O With a 2050 target date I would say that any member here could come up with something a bit more meaningful and effective. Just how ignorant and oblivious does Harper think Canadians are?!:roll:

 

[tamarin]

Both will finish measurably higher than Pierre Trudeau and that's enough for me.

 

[TenPenny]

Clark is absolutely more intelligent and more progressive. Harper is more politically astute, and that's what did Clark in. Absolutely unable to do the political dancing needed by a party leader. As far as to which will be considered a better PM, probably Harper, by virtue of time served, when the chips are counted.

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

Joe is a real nice guy, well respected as a great parlimentarian by all. Was awful silly to try push through that budget with a minority goverment.

Harper just a Canuck version of a neocon riding to power on a regional vote and scandal in the usual ruling party.

The Liberals have formed 70% of the goverments in Canada. We just elect a conservative every now and then to keep the Liberals honest (a bit late last time). The NDP keep both of the others honest.

 

[tamarin]

Joe, consummately decent. The PM we didn't deserve. His misstep in '79 allowed the legacy-mad Trudeau back in. And with him a Charter that has altered Canadian life immeasurably,irreparably. Clark was the kind of PM we always insist we want but, blinkered as we are, don't possess the integrity to appreciate. Who's more opportunistic- the electorate or those whom they elect?

 

[darkbeaver]

Joe, consummately decent. The PM we didn't deserve. His misstep in '79 allowed the legacy-mad Trudeau back in. And with him a Charter that has altered Canadian life immeasurably,irreparably. Clark was the kind of PM we always insist we want but, blinkered as we are, don't possess the integrity to appreciate. Who's more opportunistic- the electorate or those whom they elect?

I think Trudeau legacy-mad or not was a capable primeminister that I wish we still had. A national energy program would be welcome by some factions in this country.:wave:

 

[tamarin]

Yes, some would appreciate such a program and others would appreciate a country free of the demands of special interests encouraged and accelerated by the Charter.

 

[blugoo]

Action, you say? 8-O With a 2050 target date I would say that any member here could come up with something a bit more meaningful and effective. Just how ignorant and oblivious does Harper think Canadians are?!:roll:

I agree having a 2050 target date is bad politics. It sounds ridiculous to ordinary people to set a date decades in the future. While such a timeframe is understandable to experts on this issue, and a plan to cut emissions by 50% is quite significant, Harper and his government didn't read the mood of the public very well. People want results NOW. Not something their grandchildren will see. They want goals set and achieved, so they can pat themselves on the back, and congratulate themselves for doing something.

Harper and Ambrose didn't fully understand that, didn't explain or defend their plan very well, and this all helped lead to Ambrose being turfed.

All that being said, a plan that isn't perfect, but is a step in the right direction is still better than no plan at all. People can talk about Kyoto all day long, but meeting the the 2012 targets is impossible, short of shutting Canada down.

So let's talk about what we can do. Can we pass laws, cleaning up the air and water, cutting greenhouse gas emissions by reasonable levels, and have mandatory environment standards for industry? Sure.

So why don't more MPs spend time working to get those things done, instead of passing meaningless motions that don't help the issue at all?

 

[Colpy]

Joe Clark was a real conservative a fine parlimentarian and a good honest man , Harper is a fascist pig.
:wave:

Joe Clark is a vindictive twit with the IQ of warm oatmeal.

Harper has already been PM twice as long as Clark was, and is a lot smarter.........

 

[canadarocks]

Joe Clark is a vindictive twit with the IQ of warm oatmeal.

Harper has already been PM twice as long as Clark was, and is a lot smarter.........

Oh you are surely joking! Clark is a fine man, and has something Harper lacks, integrity. Dosen't matter anyway, Harper's days are numbered until the real government(Liberal) returns to office next election.

 

[TenPenny]

Joe Clark is a vindictive twit with the IQ of warm oatmeal.

Harper has already been PM twice as long as Clark was, and is a lot smarter.........

Obviously, you know nothing of Clark, and apparently less about Harper. Enjoy.

 

[Colpy]

Oh you are surely joking! Clark is a fine man, and has something Harper lacks, integrity. Dosen't matter anyway, Harper's days are numbered until the real government(Liberal) returns to office next election.

This would be the Joe Clark that couldn't get through law school.

The guy that lost his one chance at governing because he couldn't count.

So he became Lyin' Brian's right hand man.

Supported both the idiotic Meech Lake accord and the disasterous Charlottetown accord.

He hated the prinipled Tories that formed Reform so much (guilt, I suppose.....the hatred of the collaborator for the patriot ) he refused to work in any way to re-unite the Party, thus sounding it's death-knell.

When the new Conservative Party emerged, refused to take his place of influence within the party, and instead threw his support behind the most corrupt government this country has ever seen. (That would be the LIBERALS, don't forget, including Mr. Dion)

My mother, a life-long PC (and Joe Clark fan), was so pissed at him she said at a family gathering "I'd just like to hit him with a stick!" She is 86, and that is the first time I ever heard her wish violence on anyone. Much laughter.

Let me say it again......Clark is not very bright, and is a vindictive little weasel.