Harper says he couldn't live with himself if he reduced Canada's mission in Afghan

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
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I have never been a Harper fan but he's gained a great deal of respect from me for standing firmly behind our Military. The fact that he'd rather lose an election than put our troops in further harms way by changing the rules of engagement to Peace Keeping (in a country that isn't stable) to appease the NDP and the Bloc speaks volumns to me. Bravo Mr. Harper, bravo.:wave:



Mark Kennedy, CanWest News Service

Published: Tuesday, December 19, 2006


OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper says he could not live with himself if he reduced Canada’s military mission in Afghanistan to further his own political self-interest and that he’s even prepared to lose the next election if it means standing by the military.
Harper made the comments Tuesday in a candid year-end interview, conducted with CanWest News Service in his Parliament Hill office.
His remarks stand out as his strongest defence for his government’s military policy since he came to office nearly a year ago.
Since then, dozens of soldiers have died in combat in Afghanistan, and the opposition parties have insisted the government put less emphasis on the military’s combat mission in that country - with even the Bloc Quebecois hinting it might try to topple the government over the issue in Parliament this winter.
But Harper told CanWest News Service this political pressure will have no influence on his decisions.
“I don’t feel pressure by threats from the Liberals or NDP or Bloc to bring me down,” he said.
“If ultimately I were brought down on that, and even defeated on that, I can live with myself. I could not live with myself making a decision on Canada’s role in the world and our strategic and defence interests if I knew I had done that for political reasons that were the wrong reasons. That I could not live with.”
Harper said what does influence him is the notion the Canadian soldiers who have lost their lives in Afghanistan should not have died in vain.
“The most difficult part of the job I have is phoning every single Canadian family when there is a loss and talking to them,” said the prime minister. “And I have to tell you that what they ask of me in almost every case is their assurance that the government will not, because of political pressure, abandon a mission that their sons and daughters believed in and were prepared to give their lives for.”
Furthermore, Harper said the Canadian soldiers who have gone to Afghanistan are “absolutely committed” to what they are doing.
He said they understand that they are involved in a dangerous mission but that it is a worthy effort that will assist the international community and the Afghan people, and that it is also in Canada’s long-term strategic interest to fight the global war on terrorism.
“And that’s why we’re there, that’s why they went. They understood going there that not all of them would return.”
In recent months, public opinion polls have shown Canadians are deeply divided over whether this country’s soldiers should be in Afghanistan, where our troops are set to serve until February 2009. Some critics have said Canada is not doing enough to assist the Afghan people through humanitarian programs and development assistance, and that instead, this country’s approach has become too warlike and is not following decades of work as international peacekeepers.
But Harper rejected that analysis, saying Canada has an “aggressive military history” in two world wars.
“But Afghanistan is a unique mission. It’s neither war nor peace-keeping. It’s a security operation that involves pretty direct combat with the enemy.”
Harper said he understands the NDP’s position - that Canada should not have sent its troops to Afghanistan and should withdraw now - better than any of his political opponents because at least this party has been consistent. But he suggested he has even less time for the two other parties.
“The Liberals and the Bloc tell me: rebalance the mission. What does that mean? I mean, what the hell does that mean?”
“We’ve got guys there, they’re in the most dangerous province in the country. Yes, we’re trying to do development and humanitarian assistance and we’re doing that. But the fact of the matter is that they’ve got guys shooting at them. And they’ve got the most concentrated group of enemy combatants right there. It isn’t an option to cut down the military side of the operation. They have to do what is necessary to protect the local people and protect themselves. And nothing less.”
Harper said it would be “completely irresponsible” to reduce Canada’s military mission in Afghanistan.
“If other parties want to go to the people and take that position - ‘We’d leave them there but we’d tell them not to defend themselves’ - let them explain that to the Canadian people.”
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
9
38
I have never been a Harper fan but he's gained a great deal of respect from me for standing firmly behind our Military. The fact that he'd rather lose an election than put our troops in further harms way by changing the rules of engagement to Peace Keeping (in a country that isn't stable) to appease the NDP and the Bloc speaks volumns to me. Bravo Mr. Harper, bravo.:wave:



Mark Kennedy, CanWest News Service

Published: Tuesday, December 19, 2006


OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper says he could not live with himself if he reduced Canada’s military mission in Afghanistan to further his own political self-interest and that he’s even prepared to lose the next election if it means standing by the military.
Harper made the comments Tuesday in a candid year-end interview, conducted with CanWest News Service in his Parliament Hill office.
His remarks stand out as his strongest defence for his government’s military policy since he came to office nearly a year ago.
Since then, dozens of soldiers have died in combat in Afghanistan, and the opposition parties have insisted the government put less emphasis on the military’s combat mission in that country - with even the Bloc Quebecois hinting it might try to topple the government over the issue in Parliament this winter.
But Harper told CanWest News Service this political pressure will have no influence on his decisions.
“I don’t feel pressure by threats from the Liberals or NDP or Bloc to bring me down,” he said.
“If ultimately I were brought down on that, and even defeated on that, I can live with myself. I could not live with myself making a decision on Canada’s role in the world and our strategic and defence interests if I knew I had done that for political reasons that were the wrong reasons. That I could not live with.”
Harper said what does influence him is the notion the Canadian soldiers who have lost their lives in Afghanistan should not have died in vain.
“The most difficult part of the job I have is phoning every single Canadian family when there is a loss and talking to them,” said the prime minister. “And I have to tell you that what they ask of me in almost every case is their assurance that the government will not, because of political pressure, abandon a mission that their sons and daughters believed in and were prepared to give their lives for.”
Furthermore, Harper said the Canadian soldiers who have gone to Afghanistan are “absolutely committed” to what they are doing.
He said they understand that they are involved in a dangerous mission but that it is a worthy effort that will assist the international community and the Afghan people, and that it is also in Canada’s long-term strategic interest to fight the global war on terrorism.
“And that’s why we’re there, that’s why they went. They understood going there that not all of them would return.”
In recent months, public opinion polls have shown Canadians are deeply divided over whether this country’s soldiers should be in Afghanistan, where our troops are set to serve until February 2009. Some critics have said Canada is not doing enough to assist the Afghan people through humanitarian programs and development assistance, and that instead, this country’s approach has become too warlike and is not following decades of work as international peacekeepers.
But Harper rejected that analysis, saying Canada has an “aggressive military history” in two world wars.
“But Afghanistan is a unique mission. It’s neither war nor peace-keeping. It’s a security operation that involves pretty direct combat with the enemy.”
Harper said he understands the NDP’s position - that Canada should not have sent its troops to Afghanistan and should withdraw now - better than any of his political opponents because at least this party has been consistent. But he suggested he has even less time for the two other parties.
“The Liberals and the Bloc tell me: rebalance the mission. What does that mean? I mean, what the hell does that mean?”
“We’ve got guys there, they’re in the most dangerous province in the country. Yes, we’re trying to do development and humanitarian assistance and we’re doing that. But the fact of the matter is that they’ve got guys shooting at them. And they’ve got the most concentrated group of enemy combatants right there. It isn’t an option to cut down the military side of the operation. They have to do what is necessary to protect the local people and protect themselves. And nothing less.”
Harper said it would be “completely irresponsible” to reduce Canada’s military mission in Afghanistan.
“If other parties want to go to the people and take that position - ‘We’d leave them there but we’d tell them not to defend themselves’ - let them explain that to the Canadian people.”






Seriously ASSylassie, do you think the mission in afganisthan is different from the russian mission in afganisthan during the 80's??
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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It doesn't matter if you think it is or not.

Im sure the majority of the population in some areas may hate some of the changes we bring as a western civilization. No doubt a vast majority look at us with our Gay Marriage and revile in horror.

But I bet alot of Gay Afghani's have glimmer of hope in their eyes (and they make up about 10% of the pop, same as everywhere), as do many women.

If everyone in a house said they didn't want the police to intervene in spousal abuse..should the cops just leave? Its not like anyone in the house asked them there..its not like anyone ever agreed to be under the police jurisdiction.

Why the double standard?


In any event the PM is correct.

Declaring your troops peace keepers does not mean they are. You cannot keep a peace until there is a peace to be kept. You need Peace Makers, and when they leave, then peace keepers. Political buzzwords to pacify an uneducated (on the topic) populace should not put peoples lives in danger.


I really hate the NDP lately, I've always been a strong NDP man on their social policies and detested conservative values... But every time the two groups both open their mouths, I end up thinking I should vote Conservative even though I hate what they will do to our culture.

Because the damage the conservatives will do can be undone by a future government, the idiotic crap spewing from the NDP lately will be a permanent damage to many peoples lives, and in some Cases the future of Canada (like norther sovereignty).

I want to vote NDP again, but they make it so damn hard..its like they WANT to fail.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Logic wrote; Seriously ASSylassie, do you think the mission in afganisthan is different from the russian mission in afganisthan during the 80's??

Logic; You call me one more name and I'm going to return your insults. You've gotten away with repeated insults slurs and racist remarks and I'm not taking any more crap from an Illegal Alien in MY Country. :pottytrain2: :pottytrain2:

Zzarcov your post reflects the disappointment with the NDP in general, there are numerous bloggers who want to support the NDP but they are so far out there these days with their policies that it's impossible to support them. I enjoyed reading your post.
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
Let's not go calling people names because you dissagree with someones point of view.
I agree, though, that the mission is like the Russian one that failed. We have to look at it clearly, and not patriotically. No one has won in Afghanistan. Canada is loosing soldiers to a mission that cannot be won. Harper doesn't want to swallow his pride, just like Bush, to save the lives of our soldiers. If the 2nd most powerful nation on earth couldn't win, how can we?
I believe we're putting our citizens at greater risk by making enemies with such a large population of the world.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Seriously ASSylassie, do you think the mission in afganisthan is different from the russian mission in afganisthan during the 80's??

Let's not go calling people names because you dissagree with someones point of view.
I agree, though, that the mission is like the Russian one that failed. We have to look at it clearly, and not patriotically. No one has won in Afghanistan. Canada is loosing soldiers to a mission that cannot be won. Harper doesn't want to swallow his pride, just like Bush, to save the lives of our soldiers. If the 2nd most powerful nation on earth couldn't win, how can we?
I believe we're putting our citizens at greater risk by making enemies with such a large population of the world.
It is nothing like the Russian mission, in any way shape or form.

They came to conqure, impose and rape, nothing more.

Our mandate is to secure, rebuild, educate establish structure and leave. NOTHING MORE.

We are not the US.

btw, the only assy in this forum is you illogic, you're a fraud and a puppet, period.
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
18
Canada
What would anyone expect him to say? He’s stuck with his position regardless (put our troops on an Afghan extension), and he has no control over any bad news that comes out of the mideast. If he has to stand by the consequences of it all, of course he is going to try to ennoble himself.

I mean, come on... the guy is a politician (like all of them), has an election looming over his head, and he’s fizzling in the polls.

What you folks are having the pleasure of witnessing is the hangover from an “acting like a majority government because opposition was leaderless” to the now sobering performance of, “oh my! I’m a minority government slipping in the polls — get it together man... brave face, brave face...”
 

TomG

Electoral Member
Oct 27, 2006
135
10
18
The PM repeated about the same mantra recently in Cobden where he helped pull the switch to light Canada’s biggest Christmas tree. The mantra goes something like: We’re reconstructing and providing humanitarian relief, we’re keeping the peace and fighting for democracy and freedom and human rights. We’re fighting for safety from extremists in our own country. We have to support our troops who are in combat.

The mantra makes about as much sense as does the prez to the south. Wonder why the PM didn’t say that he most admires Bush rather than Blair, since it is Bush’s policies that he seems in lock step with?

A recent news story indicates that a report of the Privy Council completed in early September puts the sense of the PM’s mantra in doubt. There’s little if any reconstruction, nation-building etc. going-on according to the report. The strategy isn’t working. The PM must have received his own Council’s report yet he stood in front of a Christmas tree and said all these wonderful things we’re doing while his own report says these things aren’t happening.

Crap, the PM is hiding behind his own troops and delivering cheap self-serving policy bumphf. The fact that we have troops in combat isn’t a policy but is a consequence of a policy. Our present policy places them in combat; they are not humanitarian workers. They are soldiers, and they are carrying out their jobs honorably under that policy. Of course, we support them. That support however is not a blanket endorsement of the policy that sends them to combat.

To support our troops, we should remember von Clausewitz’s principles. The first principal of war is not fighting one. The first principal for winning a war that can’t be avoided is maintaining the moral high ground. Von Clausewitz’s “On War” says that a war can’t be won without the moral high ground. The policy that sends armies to war largely creates the moral ground. We have a policy that lends us to fight with farmers to destroy poppy crops.

It is up to each and every one of us individually and through our elected and community leaders to define and maintain the moral ground. It is far too important a question to be left to a mere politician PM who chooses to hid behind his own troops rather than debate his own Privy Council report openly. We must ensure that the reasons for being there are morally superior, and we place our troops in harm’s way if the principles are not adequate.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
Convictions....Harper has them, Trudeau had them...Harris had them, Laurier had them... It doesn't matter if the public agrees with the convictions of these men (they are quite different from each other) but in the world of politics where convictions go out the window with the first poll, we can all see them and we all honour them...

I don't care if you want to be in Afgan.. or not but finally we have a leader who will stick to his guns..no pun intended.

He stood up in the house to stop debate on the Quebec nation...didn't give so wishy washy talk but gave a forceful opinion... he but a "real" commission to look into the air India attack..a CANADIAN terrorist attach btw!!

I don't always agree with this man but I do like his black is black and white is white approach!!
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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Anyone who would base the formation critical policy on a false dichotomy isn't worthy of doing the job.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
100
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Oh knock it off.

If he's not worthy of the job its because his Ideals suck. But he has thus far been a man who sticks to his ideals (that you hate) more so than the usual PM who has Ideals you like..but he never follows them when the going gets tough.
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
9
38
Logic wrote; Seriously ASSylassie, do you think the mission in afganisthan is different from the russian mission in afganisthan during the 80's??

Logic; You call me one more name and I'm going to return your insults. You've gotten away with repeated insults slurs and racist remarks and I'm not taking any more crap from an Illegal Alien in MY Country. :pottytrain2: :pottytrain2:

Zzarcov your post reflects the disappointment with the NDP in general, there are numerous bloggers who want to support the NDP but they are so far out there these days with their policies that it's impossible to support them. I enjoyed reading your post.


Blah blah blah, i asked you a simple question and didnt answer, and yes , you, ITN, COLPY, CDN Bear, are in my watch list, i will be on your cases, for quite some times, be ready.
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
9
38
Let's not go calling people names because you dissagree with someones point of view.
I agree, though, that the mission is like the Russian one that failed. We have to look at it clearly, and not patriotically. No one has won in Afghanistan. Canada is loosing soldiers to a mission that cannot be won. Harper doesn't want to swallow his pride, just like Bush, to save the lives of our soldiers. If the 2nd most powerful nation on earth couldn't win, how can we?
I believe we're putting our citizens at greater risk by making enemies with such a large population of the world.


That is a smartest answer i read in here.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
Oh knock it off.

If he's not worthy of the job its because his Ideals suck. But he has thus far been a man who sticks to his ideals (that you hate) more so than the usual PM who has Ideals you like..but he never follows them when the going gets tough.

yep..that b the Liberal way!!!

never follow through, just get into office..thats the only thing that counts..then they all become manager's just continue on under existing conditions...no plateform..no change...just manage...

It's the narrow minded jerks who will not except that Harper has conviction.....

Personally I hated Trudeau's policies..think we are still dealling with them in a bad way..but I have to hand it to the man..he had convictions and implemented them....
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
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123 words worth of reaction and none of it addressing what I actually said.

typical
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
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that change means reduction instead of, for example, redefinition. it betrays a stunning lack of vision.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
Well what is your thoughts...I've heard from you where he is wrong...but not what should be done??

First things first. Lack of a solution (and no, I'm not saying that's the case) is not proof there is no problem. You agree that he's wrong, then?
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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you know, semantic word games don't help, just write a post longer than three sentances if you want to make point about a large topic.