The Homeless and the Working Poor

EliteF355

New Member
Dec 9, 2006
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Why do we have that in canada? we have the money.. majority of the people care.. i dont get it.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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California
A lot of homeless people have issues other than just money. Mental illness and substance abuse are two huge issues.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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California
Northboy

OK - you first - it's an important topic.

What do you propose to eliminate the problem? I mean other than creating another level of bureaucracy which absorbs 75% of the allocation of funding?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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I'm sure there are exceptions but generally, the "homeless" are homeless because of bad decisions and because they have worn out their own personal infrastructure, relatives, friends, neighbors, etc. Unfortunately, there is usually some form of substance abuse involved; booze, drugs, etc. When these people are found sleeping in doorways or whatever by the police or other authority, they get another chance to get back in the system. They have to be serious about it. Often they just end up back on the street panhandling for enough to buy another bottle of muscatel.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Very few homeless people are on the streets because they didn't have a choice, excluding the mentally ill, most of them have addictions and don't pay their rent they get evicted and lose their welfare checks because they don't have an address and the cycle continues over and over. Perhaps we shouldn't punish those with addictions and instead give them a safe place to do what ever it is they are addicted to. Government Assistance places so many rules on those they help that when a rule is broken they withdraw funds. Society can't force someone into an addiction center, yet.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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I stayed in downtown Vancouver a week ago and wasn't looking forward to walking around because it's impossible not to be accosted by beggars down there. I made a break for it and within a few minutes I as pounced on by street people. The second guy wasn't fun. He was piss drunk and wanted money for his "vehicle parking". I politely declined. As I walked away I heard him say "Merry Christmas Prick" and he was following me. I had the sudden urge to turn around and belt him but felt his life was probably hard enough that he didn't need a black eye from me.

Why on Earth are these people trying to live on Georgia Street? A guy can't live there making $80k a year. Can't someone convince these people to be rounded up and relocated to the Kootenays or somewhere else where a guy starting with nothing might have chance?
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
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My two cents? I learned while studing Criminology is that subcultures exist because people want them to i.e. in prisons there is a subculture, a chain of cammand if you will within the inmate community and I believe the same exists on the streets a like minded group of people who prefer to live on the streets with street rules and they choose to have very little interaction with main stream society. It's a choice, but I feel awful for those who are mentally ill who ended up there after the Government closed all the institutions and small option homes-this group are victims. In an ideal world we gather all the broken souls and place them in warm houses, but in two days when the shakes start it's back to the street because the need to fullfill an addiction is the strongest urge there is. We will never win this battle.

Kreskin, I've almost done the same thing a couple of times with those evil doer's that wash your windshield. Get away from the truck, they are so abusive and nasty. They'd make nice hood ornaments thou.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
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Richmond, Virginia
Let me premice this by saying Im not a canadian. I am mentally ill and I have been homeless.

I spent 3 very cold months on the streets in Providence Rhode Island on Broad Street. My Bro in Law........(my best friend at the time and still is) Finally found me and found me an apt. He made me see a doctor and the fog cleared for a bit. Back then a great many of the people out there where Prostitutes, mentally Ill and kids that left home thinking they had no choices. The shelters were cruel and those of us that were weak stayed away from them. The hospitals werent a choice because they would send us to the shelters.

When I took the bus home in november after Samhain as always I went througfh new york. I counted a dozen men sleeping in the terminal, all in different stages of disaray. I took out my clean socks and laid them next to 4 different men with no socks. One man I asked why didnt he go to the salvation army and he replied "They make me work" It made me very sad.
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
Northboy

OK - you first - it's an important topic.

What do you propose to eliminate the problem? I mean other than creating another level of bureaucracy which absorbs 75% of the allocation of funding?


This is a matter of National Honour in which we all share either the praise or the scorn.

The world is watching.......We can be known as a nation of full heart, half heart or no heart.. The choice is ours.... and ours alone....

What would I do?

I would say to the wealthy; Stewardship is yours

I would say to the rich; The blessings of good fortune come with the yoke of responsibility

I would say to everyone else; Follow your heart... and do your best......
 

Riyko

Electoral Member
Apr 29, 2006
497
1
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Oakville, Ontario
If they don't want to better themselves what can you really do. I mean it's sad to see people who are living on the streets, but you have to realize some of them have gotten so used to that life that they can't or don't want to change. Like others have said they have either mental illnesses or have drug addictions and instead of using the money for stuff to help them out they want their drugs to feel better or assume that nothing else will help them out.

I don't live in Canada (i will soon, but that's a different story), but i've been around homeless people. I went to little tokyo in california, and knowing that little tokyo is a safe place I still ran into homeless people. This one lady wanted money, cigerettes, a cup of coffee and food. I told her no because she was a druggie, then I ran into her again and she just started yelling at me saying you just don't want to help me out at all and only care about yourself, so I asked her what about you why don't you do something to better yourself.

I've ran into homeless people in Salt Lake City (Utah) who we're really poor and trying to make a living for themselves, but couldn't make enough to actually support themselves. This one guy he was playing keyboard and trying to make money to help support himself (he's a musician and depends on that) he played really well and was really good so I gave him some money.

Those are two cases i've encountered one was of someone who wanted something for nothing, someone who never wanted to better herself and the other case was of someone who was trying to make an innocent living. So all in all it is their choice.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
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50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
To some it's their choice, to some it's not. The various provincial gov'ts in Canada pretty much all decided in the 80s to shut down the various institutions that provided good shelter and decent sustenance for the worst of the disabled. It sure as hell wasn't their choice to be bandied about the countryside. They had security that was pulled from under their feet. Don't know anything about the States problem with the issue.

BTW, no they shouldn't all be shipped here to the Kootenays. All the work seems to be at the coast in BC right now.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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No amount of work will create an affordable life in downtown Vancouver for someone starting with nothing. These people could be handed 50k/yr jobs and still not be able to live down there without begging.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
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50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Yeah, but winter is more severe here than at the coast so it'd be a bit mean to send them here, besides that, there aren't that many jobs around here. People here also work for quite a bit less here than they do there (for example, a neighbor does plumbing for $55/hour here and I know a plumber over at the coast gets between $70 & $85/hour)
During summer, vacancy everywhere around here is nil.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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But it costs 2k a month to rent a condo on Haro St. I just pulled the Kootneys out of a hat. Anywhere but Georgia and Burrard would be better, working or not.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
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50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
You're probably quite correct. Were it me, I think I'd prefer living under a tarp behind someone's garage in the British Properties or in a portion of bush not far from there rather than downtown 'Couver. Betcha they throw out all kindsa goodies.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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LOL, lofty goals. Watch out for the tarp ceiling..success has limits.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
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50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Yeah. I spent 3 weeks in isolation at the coast after a course in how to survive in the bush with an extremely limited supply of goodies and would much rather do that than try living right in 'Couver. But, I have seen the rich throw out the most astonishing items (for instance, throw out a perfectly functional slr camera, it was a Pentax I think, because it had a scratch on it). Or a perfectly workable weed whacker because it had a bent handle). :D