Tories eye tax cut for couples

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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Now this tax cut would bother me as a single male, pretty discriminatory in my opinion. I guess Harper has to do something to appease the "social conservative" crowd.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...401&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

OTTAWA—The Conservative government is looking at a radical restructuring of the tax system that would allow couples to reduce what they pay by averaging out their income, says a government source.

But introducing income splitting — something Finance Minister Jim Flaherty could touch on as early as Thursday when he delivers his annual economic update — is likely to set off sharp criticism from groups that consider it unfair to single Canadians and a disincentive to women working outside the home.

Critics say income splitting — transferring income to the lower-earning partner for tax purposes — would alter the fundamental nature of the tax system, making the family a basic unit and the system less progressive.

Income splitting was praised by Prime Minister Stephen Harper during the last election. And Flaherty, who brought in income splitting for pensioners on Oct. 31, has not ruled out extending it to all Canadians.

Doing so would be expensive — economists estimate it would cost Ottawa about $5 billion a year — but it would fit with Flaherty's personal ambition to establish a reputation as Canada's tax-fighting finance minister. Ottawa had a $13 billion surplus last year.

"Canadians pay too much tax, and the tax burden on individuals, families and businesses is still too great and must be reduced," Flaherty told the Commons finance committee earlier this month.

The 2007 federal budget, expected in February or March, is likely to include hefty tax breaks and income splitting would dovetail with the Tories' preference for policies that strike a chord with middle-class families.

The opposition parties are threatening to defeat the Conservative minority government over the budget. The income-splitting system would likely be a huge hit with taxpayers going into an election campaign and would help the Tories deal with criticism that the one percentage point cut in the GST earlier this year really didn't have much of an impact on ordinary Canadians.

Income splitting is common in other developed countries, including the United States, where couples have the option of filing joint or separate tax statements. Germany, Switzerland, France and Portugal also allow joint statements. It's not clear how the system would work in Canada.

Allowing spouses to pool their incomes and divide them evenly for tax purposes has long been promoted by Conservatives who feel a family where one spouse stays at home with the children is currently at a tax disadvantage.
Income splitting was established as a Conservative priority at the party's inaugural policy convention in March 2005. And Flaherty's personal website recently featured a question asking people to say if they approved of income splitting.

On Oct. 31, in an effort to soften the blow for seniors who lost money from the sudden crackdown on popular income trusts, Flaherty announced that, beginning in 2007, pensioners will be allowed to allocate a portion of their pension income to their spouses for tax purposes. This pension income splitting will cost Ottawa $1 billion a year in lost revenues.

When asked at the time if all taxpayers would see a similar benefit in his next budget, Flaherty would only say "that's an issue that we can look at going forward." But the move to help pensioners was seen as an irreversible first step toward income splitting for all Canadians.

"I can't really see any particular logic of why, as a concept, it would be accepted for pension splitting and not be viewed as acceptable for general income splitting," said TD Bank Chief Economist Don Drummond.

Income splitting would be a tax break for many couples, with the lion's share of benefits going to those in which one spouse is a high-income earner and the other does not work outside the home.

Under current tax law, a family in which one spouse works, earning $80,000 a year, and the other spouse has no income will pay $12,460 in federal income tax. Under income splitting, the couple would pay a combined total of $8,940, a saving of $3,520, according to calculations by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

A family in which one person earns $60,000 and the spouse earns $20,000 currently pays total federal income taxes of $10,280. Under income splitting, that family would pay a total of $8,940, a saving of $1,340.

A family with two partners earning $40,000 each pays a combined federal income tax of $8,940. There would be no change under income splitting.

Income splitting would be popular with many families, particularly social conservatives who form the Harper government's prime supporters.

"This would lower the tax burden on families," said John Williamson, federal director of the taxpayers' federation. "It would also change behaviour. It is definitely not neutral in terms of the impact on society. Families would look at their situation differently. Some families might choose to have one spouse stay at home. Others might choose to cut back on the amount of work they do."

But it would attract fierce criticism from singles who would feel disadvantaged by income splitting and by women's advocates who argue, by easing the tax burden for families with a stay-at-home spouse, it would tend to discourage women from joining the workforce.

There is also the question of whether the Conservatives, who have already promised a further cut in the GST, can afford the $5 billion a year in lost revenue from income splitting. But Ottawa's coffers continue to bulge beyond expectations. Last year, the federal government chalked up a $13 billion surplus and halfway through this fiscal year, the surplus topped $5.3 billion.
 
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MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
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I guess it comes down to what is the most fair way to assess taxes - on a household basis or by individuals? Is it fair that two families that have identical household incomes may have vastly different tax bills just because of the way that income is distributed? I don't think so. Anyway, I think this is more of a trial balloon than a policy direction. It's a big ticket item and I can't see them bringing this into law.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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I think the current system is fair. I don't see why one person earning a lot of money should pay less taxes only because he or she is married. There are already tax cuts benefiting families.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Tracy you are not paying into the current tax system are you? So how do you know if it's fair or not regarding couples? I'm part of a couple and I think this is a great idea, it would ease the tax burden on couples where one party has a much higher income than the other. It is not fair to couples who can't have children to be penalized tax wise for it, it's not my fault I can't have children ergo a tax deduction. Anything that will ease my tax burden and I'm all for it including watching politicians do the chicken dance on the Hill.:wave:
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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I recent every penny I pay over 25% of my earnings to taxes for all levels of government.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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Tracy you are not paying into the current tax system are you? So how do you know if it's fair or not regarding couples? I'm part of a couple and I think this is a great idea, it would ease the tax burden on couples where one party has a much higher income than the other. It is not fair to couples who can't have children to be penalized tax wise for it, it's not my fault I can't have children ergo a tax deduction. Anything that will ease my tax burden and I'm all for it including watching politicians do the chicken dance on the Hill.:wave:

No, I haven't paid into it since the year before last, that's true. I understand why you'd be in favor of anything that reduces your taxes. Who wouldn't? But, just like you don't think it's fair to be penalized for not having children, I don't see why the unmarried should be penalized for not having a spouse. Being part of a couple already has financial benefits not counting taxes. Why is this one group more deserving of a tax cut than anyone else?
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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If the conservatives manage to change the tax codes to reflect this, it will be time for me to order my self a wife.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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I don't see why the unmarried should be penalized for not having a spouse. Being part of a couple already has financial benefits not counting taxes. Why is this one group more deserving of a tax cut than anyone else?

A family with two partners earning $40,000 each pays a combined federal income tax of $8,940. There would be no change under income splitting.


....
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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Yes, but a married person who makes 60K while his spouse makes 20K will see a reduction whereas an unmarried person making 60K wouldn't. Why should the 60K earners be treated differently because one has a spouse who earns money and one doesn't? And even if you want to reward people simply for being in a marriage, why should one couple with a combined income of 80K pay more in taxes than another couple making a combined income of 80K? I just don't see the rationale for it.

"A family in which one person earns $60,000 and the spouse earns $20,000 currently pays total federal income taxes of $10,280. Under income splitting, that family would pay a total of $8,940, a saving of $1,340.

A family with two partners earning $40,000 each pays a combined federal income tax of $8,940. There would be no change under income splitting."
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...e049e-bb77-4ba9-be34-619e2d87cb99&k=39817&p=1


Is income-splitting unfair to singles? A couple earns $100,000. A single person earns $100,000. Income-splitting would benefit one but not the other. Shouldn't they pay the same of tax? No, of course not. Horizontal equity requires that we treat like as like. But a single person and a couple aren't in similar circumstances. The couple has $100,000 to spend between them. The single gets to spend it all on himself. He thus has more discretionary income -- the amount left over after basic living expenses -- out of which to pay his taxes. It's only fair he pays more.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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I like it. If one partner makes $70,000, and the other stays home with kids and no income........taxes would drop dramatically. Talk about effective child care dollars!
 

gearheaded1

Never stop questioning
Oct 21, 2006
100
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How is less taxes bad?

Less taxes, uh, sounds good to me! Is this a trick question?

This is a real tax savings, not a few bucks here or there, but something concrete and noticeable!
 

McDonald

Nominee Member
Jan 23, 2006
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This is so typical of neo-conservative politicians. So in one swoop, he placates the apolitical couples in this country by cutting their taxes, they think he's a nice guy for it. He also tips his hat to the uberchristian conservatives by showing favouritism to married couples (I wonder if that includes married, same-sex couples...), and they think he's a good Christian for it. He also gives another tax loophole to very wealthy men in this country who can now pay way less taxes by getting themselves a trophy wife who doesn't work.

The tax system here is fine, as far as I can see. It can use tweaking, I'm sure, but tweak it the right way for the right reasons... not the Right way for the Right reasons.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Well it's been tweaked the left way for the wrong reasons for a little too long I would say.


Canadians pay to much in taxes...well at least they do in Ontario. ( I can't imagine why...)
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
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This is so typical of neo-conservative politicians. So in one swoop, he placates the apolitical couples in this country by cutting their taxes, they think he's a nice guy for it. He also tips his hat to the uberchristian conservatives by showing favouritism to married couples (I wonder if that includes married, same-sex couples...), and they think he's a good Christian for it. He also gives another tax loophole to very wealthy men in this country who can now pay way less taxes by getting themselves a trophy wife who doesn't work.

The tax system here is fine, as far as I can see. It can use tweaking, I'm sure, but tweak it the right way for the right reasons... not the Right way for the Right reasons.

All to the good.........

As for those very wealthy men, they ALREADY don't pay taxes.......I'm amazed how the left will add to the burden of the masses unendingly........just in a futile attempt to get at the filthy rich.
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
I guess it comes down to what is the most fair way to assess taxes - on a household basis or by individuals? Is it fair that two families that have identical household incomes may have vastly different tax bills just because of the way that income is distributed? I don't think so. Anyway, I think this is more of a trial balloon than a policy direction. It's a big ticket item and I can't see them bringing this into law.

I think the current system is fair. I don't see why one person earning a lot of money should pay less taxes only because he or she is married. There are already tax cuts benefiting families.
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I think both these sentiments are correct. Maybe the solution to these types of inequities is through a flat tax system which will reduce these types of situations.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
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48
California
The CBC had an interesting piece about this. The thing that I was struck with was that it doesn't actually require the high income earner (usually the man) to actually give any money to his spouse.