Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,465 
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
October 26th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Tories Losing Control
Canadians blocking agenda
Today The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada fought back against opposition parties in the House of Commons, in a continuing battle between the Government of Canada and the opposition parties for control of the Thirty-ninth Parliament of Canada.
In any case, it is clear that the Prime Minister's agenda has been lost, swimming in the incompetence of the present Government. The Government has failed to maintain its agenda in several Standing Committees of the House of Commons, allowing the consideration of several Government bills to be superceded by private member's business.
The Government's agenda in two committees has been pushed to the side, so that the Kyoto Accord and the Kelowna Accord can be considered, and opposition parties have used their majority muscle to "gut" Bill C-9, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conditional sentence of imprisonment).
Even members of the Government in the Senate of Canada are admitting that Bill C-2, An Act providing for conflict of interest rules, restrictions on election financing and measures respecting administrative transparency, oversight and accountability (the Federal Accountability Act) is flawed, and in need of dozens of amendments—adding to the forty-some amendments to be put forth by the Government's opposition in the Senate.
Also, Bill C-30, An Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999, the Energy Efficiency Act and the Motor Vehicles Fuel Consumption Standards Act (more informally known as Canada's Clean Air Act) is almost certain to die in the House of Commons, after the Liberal Party of Canada, the Bloc Québécois, and the New Democratic Party of Canada banded together to fight for the wishes of Canadians, and vote against the ill-conceived and incomplete legislation.
It's going to be interesting watching the Conservative Party of Canada continue to act as though it controls the Parliamentary agenda, whereas, clearly, it is certainly not the case. Nonetheless, the Tories are screaming bloody murder over the assertion of Canadians' will in Parliament—their antidemocratic and arrogant tendencies are becoming crystal clear in this minority Parliament.
Sources
1. Click here for the Web site of Politics Watch (► article).
Tories Losing Control
Canadians blocking agenda
"[T]here is no doubt the opposition parties have effectively taken control..."
Today The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada fought back against opposition parties in the House of Commons, in a continuing battle between the Government of Canada and the opposition parties for control of the Thirty-ninth Parliament of Canada.
Quoting
While Mr. Harper contends that Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition is acting improperly or in opposition to democracy, perhaps he should heed his own words, and respect the will of the Parliament of Canada. Unfortunately, it would seem as though the Prime Minister and his Government are opposed to the democratic voice of Canadians being heard.
It is the Parliament that's supposed to run the country, not just the largest party and the single leader of that party.
In any case, it is clear that the Prime Minister's agenda has been lost, swimming in the incompetence of the present Government. The Government has failed to maintain its agenda in several Standing Committees of the House of Commons, allowing the consideration of several Government bills to be superceded by private member's business.
The Government's agenda in two committees has been pushed to the side, so that the Kyoto Accord and the Kelowna Accord can be considered, and opposition parties have used their majority muscle to "gut" Bill C-9, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conditional sentence of imprisonment).
Even members of the Government in the Senate of Canada are admitting that Bill C-2, An Act providing for conflict of interest rules, restrictions on election financing and measures respecting administrative transparency, oversight and accountability (the Federal Accountability Act) is flawed, and in need of dozens of amendments—adding to the forty-some amendments to be put forth by the Government's opposition in the Senate.
Also, Bill C-30, An Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999, the Energy Efficiency Act and the Motor Vehicles Fuel Consumption Standards Act (more informally known as Canada's Clean Air Act) is almost certain to die in the House of Commons, after the Liberal Party of Canada, the Bloc Québécois, and the New Democratic Party of Canada banded together to fight for the wishes of Canadians, and vote against the ill-conceived and incomplete legislation.
It's going to be interesting watching the Conservative Party of Canada continue to act as though it controls the Parliamentary agenda, whereas, clearly, it is certainly not the case. Nonetheless, the Tories are screaming bloody murder over the assertion of Canadians' will in Parliament—their antidemocratic and arrogant tendencies are becoming crystal clear in this minority Parliament.
Sources
1. Click here for the Web site of Politics Watch (► article).
Senate Member
Posts: 5,234 
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
October 27th, 2006, 12:43 AM
You are WAY out in left field with this one, Five.
I agree with one single thing......the Parliament runs Canada, no single party.
Perhaps you could remind your Liberal buddies of that......remember how they completely IGNORED motions passed in the House?
Kyoto is a joke.....it needed to be dumped.
Kelowna, if anything, is a worse joke, throwing cash without controls at the natives, as we have done for 40 years, to what end?
I'm not one bit surprized the boys in the Liberal Party are blocking ethics legislation.....not a bit surprized.
This is simply power politics......the Opposition playing games, as is theuir right, they are the majority.....but don't try and dress it up as some moral stand of the Liberals, or some failing of the Conservatives....it is simply politics.
You are WAY out in left field with this one, Five.
I agree with one single thing......the Parliament runs Canada, no single party.
Perhaps you could remind your Liberal buddies of that......remember how they completely IGNORED motions passed in the House?
Kyoto is a joke.....it needed to be dumped.
Kelowna, if anything, is a worse joke, throwing cash without controls at the natives, as we have done for 40 years, to what end?
I'm not one bit surprized the boys in the Liberal Party are blocking ethics legislation.....not a bit surprized.
This is simply power politics......the Opposition playing games, as is theuir right, they are the majority.....but don't try and dress it up as some moral stand of the Liberals, or some failing of the Conservatives....it is simply politics.
Genius
Posts: 931
October 27th, 2006, 01:35 AM
Here's an interesting quote from Stephen Harper: "The behaviour of the Liberal party is arrogant and anti-democratic and that's really the problem," Harper said during a press conference on Parliament Hill. "They haven't accepted the decision of the electorate."
Who is being anti-democratic here? The majority of democratically elected MPs support these bills, so how are they being undemocratic? He may have a point about the senate (see comments below).
Quoting Colpy
The Liberals are far from perfect...but just because the Liberals did something, doesn't mean it's ok for the Conservatives to do the same.
You are WAY out in left field with this one, Five.
I agree with one single thing......the Parliament runs Canada, no single party.
Perhaps you could remind your Liberal buddies of that......remember how they completely IGNORED motions passed in the House?
I agree with one single thing......the Parliament runs Canada, no single party.
Perhaps you could remind your Liberal buddies of that......remember how they completely IGNORED motions passed in the House?
Quote:
Whether these are good policies or not, they are (I believe) supported by a majority of MPs. I have no problem with filibusters, but to blame the opposition parties for delaying legislation when they are doing the same thing??
Kyoto is a joke.....it needed to be dumped.
Kelowna, if anything, is a worse joke, throwing cash without controls at the natives, as we have done for 40 years, to what end?
Kelowna, if anything, is a worse joke, throwing cash without controls at the natives, as we have done for 40 years, to what end?
Here's an interesting quote from Stephen Harper: "The behaviour of the Liberal party is arrogant and anti-democratic and that's really the problem," Harper said during a press conference on Parliament Hill. "They haven't accepted the decision of the electorate."
Who is being anti-democratic here? The majority of democratically elected MPs support these bills, so how are they being undemocratic? He may have a point about the senate (see comments below).
Quote:
I don't know much about what is going on with this bill. I've heard that it's not so much "blocking" the bill, as it is "amending" it. Maybe for the better, maybe not. I don't see why the Liberals oppose lowering the donation limit (except for political purposes of course)...but then again I don't know why the NCC would oppose it either...
I'm not one bit surprized the boys in the Liberal Party are blocking ethics legislation.....not a bit surprized.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,234
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
October 27th, 2006, 01:45 AM
The problem is politics......I agree with at least some of your post........
The Conservatives are frustrated. They can not rule from the left, they are the elected government of Canada, but they do have principles......
At the same time any realist has to realize all the other parties, with a majority of seats, are to the left.........
I would actually have some sympathy for the Opposition stand if they were working on principle, but they are NOT.......they are working for gridlock, they want this government to fail, and I don't believe they are acting in good faith.............
I could even accept that their stance on Kyoto and Kelowna are as they appear......that they are true believers in this kind of stupidity.....BUT to hold up ethics legislation with endless amendments?
Even more so, to end block the end of house arrest for arsonists, rapists, violent offenders? There is NO possible principle there, it is simply gumming up the works to make Harper look bad. Nasty politics at the expense of the Canadian people.
The solution is simple.
Have an election, give Harper a majority.
He's earned it.
The problem is politics......I agree with at least some of your post........
The Conservatives are frustrated. They can not rule from the left, they are the elected government of Canada, but they do have principles......
At the same time any realist has to realize all the other parties, with a majority of seats, are to the left.........
I would actually have some sympathy for the Opposition stand if they were working on principle, but they are NOT.......they are working for gridlock, they want this government to fail, and I don't believe they are acting in good faith.............
I could even accept that their stance on Kyoto and Kelowna are as they appear......that they are true believers in this kind of stupidity.....BUT to hold up ethics legislation with endless amendments?
Even more so, to end block the end of house arrest for arsonists, rapists, violent offenders? There is NO possible principle there, it is simply gumming up the works to make Harper look bad. Nasty politics at the expense of the Canadian people.
The solution is simple.
Have an election, give Harper a majority.
He's earned it.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,154
October 27th, 2006, 07:59 AM
it is a tough parliament. Minority situations are always trying and when you have as much history shared as the two chief parties do it can never be easy. Suffice it to say, most Canucks don't trust the Liberals to handle the company purse or hang around their children too long, and most are a more than a little skeptical of the regional bent of the Conservatives. We don't have a lot going for us in Canada in the way of political capital. But we do need to realize this is all very real and we must support that party able to show us the way ahead. Hmmm...which one...which one...
it is a tough parliament. Minority situations are always trying and when you have as much history shared as the two chief parties do it can never be easy. Suffice it to say, most Canucks don't trust the Liberals to handle the company purse or hang around their children too long, and most are a more than a little skeptical of the regional bent of the Conservatives. We don't have a lot going for us in Canada in the way of political capital. But we do need to realize this is all very real and we must support that party able to show us the way ahead. Hmmm...which one...which one...
Genius
Posts: 814
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
October 27th, 2006, 08:06 AM
If we were not so regional , we wouldn't care about a "regional bent" To have a great country and great government we need to act like a people..we fail on that front....Our common thread seems to be to bash American...then we fall apart...
If we were not so regional , we wouldn't care about a "regional bent" To have a great country and great government we need to act like a people..we fail on that front....Our common thread seems to be to bash American...then we fall apart...
Super Genius
Posts: 1,029
October 27th, 2006, 08:17 AM
Quoting ottawabill
The Liberals want to be back in power so bad they don't care if they hurt Canada while doing it because only 2 things matter to them before their own country. 1.Power 2.Bash The United States..
If we were not so regional , we wouldn't care about a "regional bent" To have a great country and great government we need to act like a people..we fail on that front....Our common thread seems to be to bash American...then we fall apart...
Genius
Posts: 814
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
October 27th, 2006, 08:42 AM
It's really sick. I've been across this country (outside of the far north) and also all through the U.S. We are likely less divers a population then the Americans are however you'd never know that to listen to us.
I've had New Yorkers tell me they understand where I am coming from moreso than where Texan's are coming from.What does that say?
Quoting Johnny Utah
Tell me about it..Oh you forgot the use alienation of Quebec to get votes in Quebec.. The Liberals want to be back in power so bad they don't care if they hurt Canada while doing it because only 2 things matter to them before their own country. 1.Power 2.Bash The United States..
It's really sick. I've been across this country (outside of the far north) and also all through the U.S. We are likely less divers a population then the Americans are however you'd never know that to listen to us.
I've had New Yorkers tell me they understand where I am coming from moreso than where Texan's are coming from.What does that say?
Genius
Posts: 814
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
October 27th, 2006, 09:42 AM
And if he wins another minority would you call from another election in Dec 2007?
What it's time for is an elected Senate, or atleast an 8 year term as senator max. This stack the senate before you leave power is so counter productive....No mater which side you are on...
Quoting BitWhys
Is it really time we tell (one year) or are you just hoping to kick him out.
Harper tosses leglislastion into the system and then bitches when it doesn't go his way?
that's not leadership, its ill-timed tyranny.
time will tell if his brand of populism is acceptable to the public.
that's not leadership, its ill-timed tyranny.
time will tell if his brand of populism is acceptable to the public.
And if he wins another minority would you call from another election in Dec 2007?
What it's time for is an elected Senate, or atleast an 8 year term as senator max. This stack the senate before you leave power is so counter productive....No mater which side you are on...
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,154
October 27th, 2006, 10:11 AM
And it's time for sitting senators to question the morality of their own positions. It's 2006 for crying out loud. We still have a senate in this northern boonborough chosen through patronage and who are paid to review publicly passed legislation until they're a teetering 75. What, pray tell, is ethical about that?
And it's time for sitting senators to question the morality of their own positions. It's 2006 for crying out loud. We still have a senate in this northern boonborough chosen through patronage and who are paid to review publicly passed legislation until they're a teetering 75. What, pray tell, is ethical about that?
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,976
October 27th, 2006, 10:15 AM
Johnny wrote: The Liberals want to be back in power so bad they don't care if they hurt Canada while doing it because only 2 things matter to them before their own country. 1.Power 2.Bash The United States..
That is how I feel, the Liberals antics are appalling. Why don't the Liberals start doing what they were elected to do, be a strong opposition party. It's not Harper holding this country hostage it's the Liberals.
Johnny wrote: The Liberals want to be back in power so bad they don't care if they hurt Canada while doing it because only 2 things matter to them before their own country. 1.Power 2.Bash The United States..
That is how I feel, the Liberals antics are appalling. Why don't the Liberals start doing what they were elected to do, be a strong opposition party. It's not Harper holding this country hostage it's the Liberals.
Genius
Posts: 814
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
October 27th, 2006, 10:23 AM
but Sassy, aren't they entitled to their entitlements??
I don't have a problem with having a second house to review bills, but not unelected!!! And certainly not put in their because your Friends of the Prime Minister..democracy HA!
but Sassy, aren't they entitled to their entitlements??
I don't have a problem with having a second house to review bills, but not unelected!!! And certainly not put in their because your Friends of the Prime Minister..democracy HA!
what green dots?
Posts: 3,157
October 27th, 2006, 10:32 AM
Most of the "logjam" is happening in Commons committees. The Senate rip****ting the Accountability Act is less partisan than many might think. Conservative Senators have initiated over 40 amendments themselves.
I'm not so sure an elected Senate is such a good idea. Reminds me of what happened to the NHL when there was more teams than talent. Being a good House member and being a good politician are two different things. I'll reserve judgement on the matter for now.
Most of the "logjam" is happening in Commons committees. The Senate rip****ting the Accountability Act is less partisan than many might think. Conservative Senators have initiated over 40 amendments themselves.
I'm not so sure an elected Senate is such a good idea. Reminds me of what happened to the NHL when there was more teams than talent. Being a good House member and being a good politician are two different things. I'll reserve judgement on the matter for now.
Genius
Posts: 814
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
October 27th, 2006, 10:45 AM
honestly no system works very well.. Churchill once said "democracy is the worst system to govern..but it's all we have"
At least if both houses we elected it would be the people how wound decide if both houses should have the same make up not a former long gone Prime Minister. In the U.S. right now they are likely going to clip Bushes wings by voting democrat in the house..That would be the people deciding.
As I said above no system works well..including the mentioned U.S. system but at least they get to vote for the powers that be.
We don't vote for the upper house...nor do we dirrectly vote for our leaders, but they act as if we do!!
honestly no system works very well.. Churchill once said "democracy is the worst system to govern..but it's all we have"
At least if both houses we elected it would be the people how wound decide if both houses should have the same make up not a former long gone Prime Minister. In the U.S. right now they are likely going to clip Bushes wings by voting democrat in the house..That would be the people deciding.
As I said above no system works well..including the mentioned U.S. system but at least they get to vote for the powers that be.
We don't vote for the upper house...nor do we dirrectly vote for our leaders, but they act as if we do!!
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,154
October 27th, 2006, 10:54 AM
Ottawabill, I don't mince words. I'm black and white and relish it. Our governmental system is crappy. It's an embarrassment. It reflects a time more comfortable with a Burkean sensibility when members of a House could actually think it was their duty to speak for the ignorant. We're not ignorant and we deserve a helluva lot better than what the current Canadian franchise offers. More Canadians should tell their reps: make some changes or we'll boycott the whole lot of you SOB's!
Ottawabill, I don't mince words. I'm black and white and relish it. Our governmental system is crappy. It's an embarrassment. It reflects a time more comfortable with a Burkean sensibility when members of a House could actually think it was their duty to speak for the ignorant. We're not ignorant and we deserve a helluva lot better than what the current Canadian franchise offers. More Canadians should tell their reps: make some changes or we'll boycott the whole lot of you SOB's!
Genius
Posts: 814
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
October 27th, 2006, 11:07 AM
to me a dirrect electoral vote system should be first, If what we are really voting for is a party and leader..then thats what we should vote for, not some local guy who just sits there and votes along with the "Great Leader"..Damn why bother?? No wonder so few people vote....No matter who you vote for the government always gets in.
Quoting tamarin
beyond the fact that I am in total agreement, and find todays system totally irrelevant. how do you bring about the real change required outside of burning the witches... If you ever look for change in our system everyone and his brother are in their with the "special interests"
Ottawabill, I don't mince words. I'm black and white and relish it. Our governmental system is crappy. It's an embarrassment. It reflects a time more comfortable with a Burkean sensibility when members of a House could actually think it was their duty to speak for the ignorant. We're not ignorant and we deserve a helluva lot better than what the current Canadian franchise offers. More Canadians should tell their reps: make some changes or we'll boycott the whole lot of you SOB's!
to me a dirrect electoral vote system should be first, If what we are really voting for is a party and leader..then thats what we should vote for, not some local guy who just sits there and votes along with the "Great Leader"..Damn why bother?? No wonder so few people vote....No matter who you vote for the government always gets in.
