U.s.a. Is Starting To Leave A Bad Taste

[ottawabill]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/28/armed.boats.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

I can't believe I started a thread with the above title but I did!!

I have always wondered whats wrong with my fellow Canadians in regards to their view on the USA. I understood that American had it's problems (as do we) but always felt safe, familiar and very welcomed within the U.S. and being next door to them.

However in the past few years (all under the Bush admin) I am getting a bad taste. It started with the passport thing. I live near the border and generally consider the U.S side and their towns to be part of my community...at worst it felt like another Province, with exception of having to talk to a border guard before going there. Now I will have to show lots of paperwork and (passports soon)just to go see a friend.!! Hell American's will have to show a passport just to go home!!

The other is the above link....We are very similar people with very similar countries..in fact I would say the we are much more similar than different. So why the hell do we need armed boats along the great lakes border?

If (and when) Muslim terrorists are coming from canada to the U.S. are they to come in boats marked with terrorist flags and canons?? They sneak across with passports at land or air crossings....WITH PASSPORTS!!!

So what will any of these measures actually do? Outside of making me feel like someone is slapping my face, and leaving a bad taste..

A taste I thought I'd never have....

Is it our years of Liberal whiny head in the sands that have caused this..or a look at me I'm doing something Bush??? Dunno..do you?

 

[#juan]

Wake up and see the rest of the world

A passport is required to enter every other country in the world. Canada and the U.S. have had this unique situation for many years and the transition to what is "normal" in the rest of the world will be an inconvenience for a while, but the change is going to come whether we like it or not. The change will be good for both countries. The alternative is political, and economic union. Do we want that?

 

[MikeyDB]

Gee Juan when we review the policies and changes in Canadian trade law and "security", having the FBI and foreign police agencies operating in Canada...when we tell the U.S. "Hey it's OK you took a few billion dollars that despitethe fact that the problem- resolution devices of our wonderful agreement confirm that you weren't entitled to...."So here's a billion let's let bye-gones be bye-gones....when the U.S. can dump its polluted water into a Canadian watershed....when despite an American utilities equipment failure the mayor of New York can blame the most recent major black-out on Canada......you'd have a hard time convincing me that we haven't had a "union" already......

 

[Curiosity]

Ottawa Bill

If you are going to put a "jump off point" as to when the differences and "bad taste" started - you might want to think back to 9/11.

I am in no way excusing the Bush administration who have made so many bad calls we have lost count - nor am I excusing the Clinton Administration who did nothing. Both parties have done stupid things. Both have been lousy administrations.

If you had been attacked, had millions of people coming into your country without any documentation, taking jobs, using free health care, free education and taking minimum jobs, breaking immigration law...
would you not commence securing your borders?

It isn't the Canadian or American traditional crossings which are still going on - only now they require passports - there are still thousands of snowbirds and gamblers and tourists who come to the U.S. from Canada and hopefully enjoy their time spent - there are thousands of Americans who cross the 49th to soak up the luxury of fresh Canadian air, unbelievable scenery and new adventures they never dreamed of in their crowded towns and cities.... it goes on because it has done so for hundreds of years....we should be proud of the traditionally positive cohabitation of the two diverse nations. Perhaps it is unwise of me to mention also how many Canadians relocate to live in the U.S. - I know that is an inflammatory statement, but if things are so bad? Why do people from Canada and all over the world continue to stand in line for their number to be selected?

Even then we have some Canadians living among us who have nothing good to say about the country of their choice - as if they are only staying until they can "save enough money" to clear out and return to Canada.... thanks for nothing eh? Real quality there!

Stop laying blame - that attitude is splitting the countries - for years I read about the attitude Canadians have about the U.S., and the backlash has started - many Americans now realizing what is happening up north refuse to have anything to do with your tourism or Canadian product and it is getting worse.

What is it you want? To whine about a silly passport Juan assures everyone takes only two weeks to procure if you live in Canada and are a good person? If you base your "bad taste" on the U.S. alone, I charge you are one of those responsible for the major divide growing ever larger ... and I assure you...
it will not be a good thing for either nation.

I don't know where you have been for the last five years... The Canadians have been giving the U.S. a bad taste for years. It has been noticed and remembered.

 

[MattUK]

I dont need a passport to go to Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland.

I think its silly that you have to.

 

[mabudon]

The Canadians have been giving the U.S. a bad taste for years. It has been noticed and remembered.

What kind of BS is that statement?? What the HELL have "The Canadians" done that's so onerous??
Funny how someone who bitches about "anti american sentiment" can so easily toss that nonsensical phrase out there as if it's an undisputable fact of some kind. What have "The Canadians" done that has been "duly noted"???

 

[ottawabill]

no no no

Curi... you have it all wrong...If you read my 1st post you would have seen that I said " I can't believe I'm writing this"

I have NO compliant with the U.S. I have lived there and would do it again. My actual problem is the divide that is happening between our two nations. I personally feel more connected with New York State then B.C or Quebec. And before someone jumps on me for that statement... I have heard the same from New Yorkers that they feel more comfortable with Ontario than Texas.

The friendly border seems to be disappearing. The major blow was when I saw the story about guns installed on coast haurd ships on the Great Lakes.

I personally would prefer a North American border policy..NOT ONE COUNTRY but one policy..This country (Canada) is in total denial as to terrorist attacks...They seem to think that if we are not Americans then we are safe. DUH!!! the extreme Muslims think of ALL western nations as Christian infadel fighters who should be killed by the word of Ali.... I don't remember a foot note that excluded Canada from that.

Unfortunately there are people who are going to say.."just move to the states then" Black or white..right or left..etc etc. We are 2 of the best nations on earth, there is no need to become one, however there is also no nedd to become completely seperate.

 

[Curiosity]

What kind of BS is that statement?? What the HELL have "The Canadians" done that's so onerous??
Funny how someone who bitches about "anti american sentiment" can so easily toss that nonsensical phrase out there as if it's an undisputable fact of some kind. What have "The Canadians" done that has been "duly noted"???

Mabudon

If you can't take it - don't dish it.

Eight years ago many Americans didn't know much about Canada - but Canadians' voices have been heard - not in a positive way - but primarily in criticisms levelled at the U.S. for their retaliation to the middle east situation - especially in Iraq. For years I had to field some really odd questions from people here who really didn't know anything - I was surprised but not bothered particularly. What people feel is important to know is up to them....

I bitch about misinformation - just as you have now done in accusing me. How is it you know that I am not telling the truth? Why would I bother? Why would I waste time writing fiction?

Canada's former complaints about the U.S. was they were so stupid - especially about Canadian things - now they know much more than they did - they also learned about the middle east and the countries therein. Remember the familiar refrain: "Wear your Canadian pins when travelling so you are not mistaken for Americans".... wow heavy.

Americans are a laissez-faire people - generally tending to selfish pursuit until word of negative stuff starts to filter in and now much conversation is devoted to the unnecessary war of the 49th parallel these days - which is peanuts compared to what Americans are funding and losing their young to....

But it is noted.... Should I change fact to make it comfy for ya? Not say anything at all? Isn't that what forums are about? Discussion and sharing information - not misinformation?

 

[Sassylassie]

Good post Bill, I agree with you. We seem to be turning on each other visa vie Canada/USA, while an enemy grows from within. This is not good.

Curi... you have it all wrong...If you read my 1st post you would have seen that I said " I can't believe I'm writing this"

I have NO compliant with the U.S. I have lived there and would do it again. My actual problem is the divide that is happening between our two nations. I personally feel more connected with New York State then B.C or Quebec. And before someone jumps on me for that statement... I have heard the same from New Yorkers that they feel more comfortable with Ontario than Texas.

The friendly border seems to be disappearing. The major blow was when I saw the story about guns installed on coast haurd ships on the Great Lakes.

I personally would prefer a North American border policy..NOT ONE COUNTRY but one policy..This country (Canada) is in total denial as to terrorist attacks...They seem to think that if we are not Americans then we are safe. DUH!!! the extreme Muslims think of ALL western nations as Christian infadel fighters who should be killed by the word of Ali.... I don't remember a foot note that excluded Canada from that.

Unfortunately there are people who are going to say.."just move to the states then" Black or white..right or left..etc etc. We are 2 of the best nations on earth, there is no need to become one, however there is also no nedd to become completely seperate.

 

[Curiosity]

OttawaBill

If I misread your post I apologize. However I want to restate my opinion (it is only mine - not the world's)... that Canadians have been complaining about the U.S. for many years - back to all of the U.N.
forces missions they were on.... right up to the present time. Some still drag out the WWI and WWII, Korea and of course can we ever get through the VietNam issues? It is as if all Canadians mark their knowledge about the U.S. through wars instead of the day to day people and their lives in both nations.

Either they are going to be allied nations doing the work as one -or give it up and take separate missions far apart so they won't interfere....

I have never never since I came down here almost 20 years ago heard so much Canadian backlash - even I when people learn where I am from am having to be alert to some pretty unhealthy remarks...when at one time all I heard were interested questions about life in Canada...

Now there is a shutting down....and I know Canadians' dissatisfaction with what they believe the U.S. has become has been heard...and noted.

Perhaps the internet has not helped much either - people are much more vocal in anonymity....

 

[ottawabill]

Thanks

Thanks Sassie..lets get married hahahaha!!!

It always seems to be the people/ nations that are the closest to each other that have the most problems with each other. Look at Northern Ireland...the U.S. civil war era..Canada and the U.S.

Same people with little differences turned into major gaps....Half of the people I hear complaining about the U.S. have either never been there ... How informed is that!!!

 

[Sassylassie]

Curio, Bill hit the nail on the head when he stated "Half the people who complain about the US have never been there." It's ignorance versus knowledge, someday they shall grow up and travel outside of their province and then we can dare to dream. Stay strong sister, want some Buckleys??? A fishermens friend, god those are freaking nasty.

Yes Bill I will marry you, but only if you mow lawns?

 

[elevennevele]

Ottawa Bill

If you are going to put a "jump off point" as to when the differences and "bad taste" started - you might want to think back to 9/11.

America has never been attacked the way Europe has been attacked. America has never been invaded by a foreign force in modern history, had it’s cities bombed to rubble, and suffered millions in casualties in the civilian population from a war. America in modern history has participated in wars with managing a unique separation of the public from not being caught in it while the public of the country they are conducting the war in is directly in it.

However, the United States acts with incredible xenophobia these days all because of the 911 which they magnify day after day after day. They consume their existence with it to the point of paralysis while other countries in the world have been trying to come more closely together as a community.

I cannot imagine a world where European countries had not moved more closer together, but had alternatively in another reality spent their days perpetuating the horrors of World War II day in and day out in their public’s mind to the point of never ending mistrust of one another. I cannot imagine a safer world had they taken such a direction in Europe when clearly the horrors of war that was suffered on European soil was much greater than 911 (and given not only one world war but two).

There are Canadians and Americans that created a lifestyle on what has been, up until now, a great invisible border. Their livelihoods have been dependent on almost a sharing of neighborhoods between them.

Sure, blame 911, but honestly it’s the politicians that have taken us here and it’s them I blame. We could have easily taken the high road in the face of 911. In beating the terrorists at their game we would have carried on proudly with our way of life on both sides of the borders. However now it’s the politicians that table pound to where it’s needed less and still are negligent in areas where security is needed most.

And as for security in the USA, right now I would be the most concerned living on the coastline. Not from terrorism, but either from hurricanes, or rising water levels. The Katrina victims have shown a real example of neglected security within America. If only the politicians showed the same excitement over so many other things that seems to threaten the country so much more than terrorism.

 

[ottawabill]

I do..I do mow lawns!!!

Yes people MUST get out before they form opinions!!!

I thought everyone in Quebec was French, racist and seperatist until I started going there..Now I know there are 12 people in Quebec who don't feel that way ahahahhaa!!!

I thought all Americans owned and used guns..until I went there...

I though the east coast was very poor and everyone fished..till I went there.

You have to go before you comment!!!

 

[gopher]

What have "The Canadians" done that has been "duly noted"???



The only thing that gets some Yanks upset about Canada is her refusal to act as Bush's lap dogs in his criminal war on Iraq.

 

[the caracal kid]

I do..I do mow lawns!!!

Yes people MUST get out before they form opinions!!!

I thought everyone in Quebec was French, racist and seperatist until I started going there..Now I know there are 12 people in Quebec who don't feel that way ahahahhaa!!!

I thought all Americans owned and used guns..until I went there...

I though the east coast was very poor and everyone fished..till I went there.

You have to go before you comment!!!

getting out?
do not think that going somewhere alone provides the understanding of a people or a place. Well, not any more than a "tourist interpretation" which is not necessarily a valid representation.

People need to learn critical thinking skills, and history. Not just of "the other culture", but of their own. One of the greatest ways of being a self-made ignoramus is to only see things through one's own perspective.

So yes, get out there. Just don't become a travelling ignoramus as a result of it!

 

[ottawabill]

!!!

Arrgghh...Getting out..seeing things....That has nothing to do with being a tourist and seeing the Statue of liberty. Geez.....

It's about going somewhere, tlaking to the people, seeing how they live...

So many want to judge based on nothing... Christians (which I am one of) boycotting the D'vinci Code but having no idea why except they hear it was against them. People not liking the U.S. because the things they read about G.W. Bush. Hating Quebec because of all them separtist.

If you go and see it with your own eyes you may still have the same conclusion but with some basis in fact.

How can you dislike American because of one man...There are more American's that hate George Bush then there are Canadian's..what does that say?

OPEN YOUR EYES BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH!!

 

[CDNBear]

I read the article, and frankly I'm surprised they weren't always armed. It's not like we don't have drug runners and smoke smugglers on the Great Lakes or anything, lol.

 

[#juan]

Gee Juan when we review the policies and changes in Canadian trade law and "security", having the FBI and foreign police agencies operating in Canada...when we tell the U.S. "Hey it's OK you took a few billion dollars that despitethe fact that the problem- resolution devices of our wonderful agreement confirm that you weren't entitled to...."So here's a billion let's let bye-gones be bye-gones....when the U.S. can dump its polluted water into a Canadian watershed....when despite an American utilities equipment failure the mayor of New York can blame the most recent major black-out on Canada......you'd have a hard time convincing me that we haven't had a "union" already......

Gee MikeyDB. I can't answer for what seems to pass as fair trading in the U.S.. I know of all the points you have brought up, and those points are more an indication of the arrogance of the U.S., and the extent to which Harper and others have been willing to bend over to appease them, rather than proof that we have given away our sovereignty. I don't like these things anymore than you do but I blame successive federal governments that have let the level of respect for Canada fall to the current level. This can be changed.

 

[the caracal kid]

Arrgghh...Getting out..seeing things....That has nothing to do with being a tourist and seeing the Statue of liberty. Geez.....

It's about going somewhere, tlaking to the people, seeing how they live...

So many want to judge based on nothing... Christians (which I am one of) boycotting the D'vinci Code but having no idea why except they hear it was against them. People not liking the U.S. because the things they read about G.W. Bush. Hating Quebec because of all them separtist.

If you go and see it with your own eyes you may still have the same conclusion but with some basis in fact.

How can you dislike American because of one man...There are more American's that hate George Bush then there are Canadian's..what does that say?

OPEN YOUR EYES BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH!!

Just talking to people is being a tourist. There is more to understanding a people than simply talking to them or taking a short trip to "see how they live".

You are correct that people judge things on nothing, or next to nothing. People generalize. One bad experience becomes the basis for an opinion on an entire group. From an evolutionary standpoint, this was benefitial. In the "modern world" it leaves quite a few false "truths".

"How can you dislike American because of one man" this is an example of generalization.

Your last line is a good place to start. As my last post pointed out, it is only a starting point though. One must learn to think before one can form a full understanding. Merely looking and then talking (or merely reading and then talking) makes one nothing more than a parrot!