Troops In Afghanistan

MagnoliaApples

Electoral Member
Apr 26, 2006
383
0
16
Hello people,

I need to know if Canada is in Afghanistan because Afghanistan asked for our help or if it's because Bush wanted us to join him in his fight on terrorism.

I was having a debate with a friend of mine and the answer to this question would really change things.

I thought that Harper joined bush, my friend says that the Afghanistan government asked for Canada's help before Harper.

What's the answer?

Thanks!
 

bluewaters101

New Member
Jun 7, 2006
13
0
1
canada
Answer to ur question

hey,

let me explain something to you. This whole thing is a conspiracy. as a matter of fact i'm quite surprised we didn't join the Americans in Iraq. Nevertheless, I believe that we sent our troops to Afghanistan because of Bush and his war on terrorism. nobody asked us for help and even if they did we haven't done Anything to improve the condition of that country. It was obviously supposed to be a peace keeping mission but as you obviously know its a war because our troops are ketting killed and they are in turn killing maybe not intentionally. I mean we always hear Harper say something along the lines of " our troops have died serving thier country..." whenever their is a canadian casualty. I always wondered how they were serving Canada if Afghanistan never did anything to us. That just proves that we are doing America's dirty work.

I hope this answers your question but you may want to talk to other people about this and get their opinions. Like you said people have varying views.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
It was not Harper that committed us to Afghanistan in the first place, it was Chretien after 9/11. That was before the government of Afghanistan as it is today even existed. The current government has asked us to stay and help.
 

MagnoliaApples

Electoral Member
Apr 26, 2006
383
0
16
Thanks for your input.

I'm hoping that i can get more answers to this. I'm looking for something concrete. You know how debates can go. If you can't prove something then it doesn't count.

I'm thinking that if the Afghanistani government asked us to help them, then it sheds a whole new light on why we are in Afghanistan.

I know that we had troops sent out there before Harper was in government. I'm wondering if Martin sent them there to appease Bush after Chretien gave Bush the big ol' FU or if there was a genuine plea from the Afghani government.

I wouldn't support us being there if we were just trying to be in Bush's back pocket BUT if Afghanistan asked for our help because they needed it, then it's different! We should be there helping. As Canadians, we shouldn't deny a country aid when it's quite clear they need it. I would be disgusted with us if we ignored the call for help.

But i do need proof of some sort either way as to how we ended up there.

Does anyone have some concrete info that they could pass on?

Thanks
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
38
Petawawa Ontario
Ignore the moron atop the thread.

The UN said yes to a USA Led Mission in Afganistan, due to the terrorist camps and the curropt Taliban Governmant, and the hUman Rights issues in Afganistan. Canada Was asked by the UN to support the mission. The Liberal Government at the time Agreed to send soldiers. We are their in support of the UN mission. and Also because NATO was asked by the UN to take control of the mission, Canada is Part of Nato.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Our initial entry into Afghanistan in 2001 was with our American allies. It was an invasion in which Canadian special forces and especially Canadian snipers were deeply involved. We killed Taliban. It was not, is not, never was claimed to be anything remotely resembling peacekeeping.

Late in 2001, after the Taliban were thrown out of Kabul by allied forces, Canada joined a United Nations mandated NATO mission to do security in and around Kabul. That ended in 2005, whereupon we took on another mission mandated by the United Nations and carried out by NATO to do security and reconstruction in southern Afghanistan. Unfortunately, effective reconstruction can not be achieved until there is a secure environment. That requires the Taliban be brought to heel, or degraded to the point they are willing to take part in a new style of Afghan government.

Our INITIAL invasion of Afghanistan was with the United States.

Our remaining there is the result of requests by the UN, our NATO allies, and the new Afghan government.
 

MagnoliaApples

Electoral Member
Apr 26, 2006
383
0
16
Thanks Colpy!

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Initially we went to Afghanistan with the US because of 9/11 to go after the Taliban?
Or did 9/11 have nothing to do with it?
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
38
Petawawa Ontario
Thanks Colpy!

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Initially we went to Afghanistan with the US because of 9/11 to go after the Taliban?
Or did 9/11 have nothing to do with it?
Taliban and Bin Laden 9/11 did, because the Piolits of the planes or Highjackers were all traced back to being trained in terror camps in Afganistan, and also Bin Laden who claimed responsiblity for the attack, was apperantly hideing in Afganistan at the time.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Thanks Colpy!

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Initially we went to Afghanistan with the US because of 9/11 to go after the Taliban?
Or did 9/11 have nothing to do with it?

Correct.

Originally we went in with the USA because the Taliban refused to surrender those responsible for training and planning the 9-11 attacks.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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38
Correct.

Originally we went in with the USA because the Taliban refused to surrender those responsible for training and planning the 9-11 attacks.

More precisely the Taliban refused to extradite bin Laden without proof and Mussaraff was not interested in hosting an investigative tribunal in his country and before anyone gets started on it the the Dinner Tape wasn't even released by the CIA until two months after the invasion started.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
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Ooooooooops I started a thread asking those same questions....

Apologies for duplication. Don't know if I can switch it over or ???
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
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Maggnoliaapples; Canada has been asked on several occasions not to abandon Afghanistan by it's people and it's government. Canadian Troops are doing what it can to rebuild Schools, Afghanistan has an elected Government, women are allowed to work. This is not about Bush, or the US Canada is a member of Nato and it's doing what a Nato member does when asked for help. We are helping.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
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Magnoliaapples here's an article on Women and Afghanistan:


A woman's fingertips are cut off because she is wearing nail polish. A group of men circle around another woman and stone her to death for appearing outside without an appropriate escort. Still others are traded to men in other tribes.
This is Afghanistan under the rule of the Taliban, something award-winning journalist, activist, author and filmmaker Sally Armstrong wrote about in her book, Veiled Threat.
"Women were raped, beaten, starved, married off and used as pawns," Armstrong told a packed First United Church last Thursday evening. "I wrote Veiled Threat because if nobody recorded what happened, later people would not believe it. I tried to explain why the world looked away."
Armstrong, who has visited Afghanistan many times, first during the Taliban regime and as recently as this past June, said that in the absence of international protest, the Taliban imposed brutal, self-serving edicts.
"Here's a gang of thugs who have hijacked a religion to suit their own ends," she said. "The thing that haunts me when I am on assignment is that it reminds me of The Scream, (evocative painting by Norwegian Edvard Munch). If nothing else, I hope my book lets the scream out."
Armstrong maintains Canada must remain in Afghanistan because this country signed an agreement in Bonn, Germany in 2001, promising to help restore the country's infrastructure and government. Secondly, she added, "in the aftermath of 9-11, in order to protect ourselves, we have to work things out over there."
While some progress has been made in the reconstruction process, a frustrated Armstrong said many programs begun after the Bonn Agreement have derailed and women and girls are only marginally better off than they were under the Taliban.
"World studies have shown that if you give a girl child some education, things change quickly, she said, praising Canadian military efforts in Afghanistan. "The way forward, I can tell you absolutely, is through education, but you can't do that without security."
On her latest trip to Afghanistan, Armstrong traveled for 10 hours to reach a remote village, wearing a shawl-like burka and kneeling in the back of a truck. She made the trek, despite a warning that foreigners might be killed, to see how Canadian- funded educational programs are working in "the boondocks."
Arriving at the school at 7 a.m., Armstrong was told children walked as much as two hours to get to their classrooms.
"I will never forget the sight," she says, describing how, as dawn turned to day, children dressed in black dresses and white scarves came down into the valley from the surrounding mountains. "It was the most joyful sight I'd seen since I've been covering Afghanistan, the future of the country, 1,950 kids. And that was the morning shift."
Armstrong told how children have taken ownership of their schools, their education and their dreams - this despite the fact that, schools are regularly fire-bombed and teachers are threatened and killed.
The schools are rebuilt and teachers and children continue to attend.
"The program is working and Canadians are doing that," she said. "They're (Afghans) in a hurry to learn, in a hurry to be somebody."
But 85 per cent of women and girls in Afghanistan are illiterate, something one woman compared to as being blind, said Armstrong.
Shuswap and Daybreak Rotary Clubs and the Salmon Arm Campus of Okanagan College sponsored Armstrong's visit and are hoping individuals and groups will help them raise enough funds to pay the $750 annual salary for 10 teachers.
Through Rotary International, the world's first service club, Shuswap and Daybreak Rotary Clubs plan to support Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan toward funding the Fatima Tul Zahra School.
Located in Maimana City in the northern Afghan province of Faryab, the school has 100 students, many of them orphans, who live at the school.
Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan supports projects that empower women in that country and in refugee camps in Pakistan. The group also raises awareness in Canada to the need to protect human rights for Afghan women. One hundred per cent of the funds go to women-centered projects in Afghanistan. To help raise funds for teachers, call Doug or Joanne Leatherdale at or Jim Kimmerly at

You see this has nothing to do with the US and Bush, there are those who pound this theroy down others' thoats but it's lies made up by people who'd rather hate than help Ahghans.
 

MagnoliaApples

Electoral Member
Apr 26, 2006
383
0
16
Taliban and Bin Laden 9/11 did, because the Piolits of the planes or Highjackers were all traced back to being trained in terror camps in Afganistan, and also Bin Laden who claimed responsiblity for the attack, was apperantly hideing in Afganistan at the time.


You know what though. I remember that Bin Ladin originally said that he had nothing to do with 9/11. That was the FIRST thing he said. I remember seeing the tape of him saying this just days after 9/11. Then a couple of days after that there was another tape of him claiming responsibility.

That is where i remember noticing the first discrepancy in all of this.

AAHHHGGG! This is soooo confusing!!

If the afghani government asked us to be there to help them with the rebels then that's one thing but if we where brow beaten to join the bush organisation then i have a problem with that. And i'm still not sure what the answer is to that. Are we there on our own accord to help bring peace to that nation or are we there so that we are not "against" the US?
 

GWiz

New Member
Nov 3, 2004
3
0
1
Then, When and NOW!
Hello people,

I need to know if Canada is in Afghanistan because Afghanistan asked for our help or if it's because Bush wanted us to join him in his fight on terrorism.

I was having a debate with a friend of mine and the answer to this question would really change things.

I thought that Harper joined bush, my friend says that the Afghanistan government asked for Canada's help before Harper.

What's the answer?

Thanks!
This should answer all your questions...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/afghanistan/timeline.html
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
More precisely the Taliban refused to extradite bin Laden without proof and Mussaraff was not interested in hosting an investigative tribunal in his country and before anyone gets started on it the the Dinner Tape wasn't even released by the CIA until two months after the invasion started.

WHO CARES?!

We know who did it.

We knew what country hosted them.

We know that country was run by a bunch of psychopaths.

We whacked them. Good for us.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
WHO CARES?!

We know who did it.

We knew what country hosted them.

We know that country was run by a bunch of psychopaths.

We whacked them. Good for us.

not you, obviously. I just thought I'd clarify what "refused to surrender" means.

you make it sound like you were there. glad you made it back in one piece.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
So we just forget about Pakistan and Saudi Arabia because their nationals weren't present on September 11/2001?

The gauge of culpability is being there to commit the atrocity as opposed to the those who gave the orders and who financed the operation?

It's enough that an XYZ person committed this violent act of terrorism so everyone even vaguely resembling XYZ types are therefore and for all time automatically terrorists and thugs?

Would that apply to Abu Ghraib or the crews who toxified the soil of Southeast Asia?