#1
Should Quebec separate from Canada? (Should Quebec Separate From Canada)
#2
Why Does Quebec Want To Separate From Canada
Aug 21st, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by sine000
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMShould Quebec separate from Canada?
No, the french should leave.
AHAHAH...no jk
Fact of the matter is they cant leave, why? because they are part of Canada....they arent anything but a province with a magority of french speaking people, who have seemed to forgot that once wolfe took them over their great great great great grand parents, swore alegence to England, OH DAMN THEY BECAME BRITISH....Not so "unique" now.... The British were Kind and let them still have their culture instead of making them learn English and practice english law. But truth is they are/were a English colony from that point on, then became Canada. Their is no point in them leaveing Canada because what will they have? a garbage Government who wont get the benifits of trade with Canada, and many other countries, Commonwelth more likely will disown them. And we would probly Invade them, because lets face it, theya rnet their own nation, and never will be.
#3
Why Does Quebec Want To Separate
Aug 21st, 2006
Oh geez...
If Quebec did seperate today, it would have absolutely nothing to do with all the "Wolfe/English Colony" mumbo jumbo EastsideScotian is talking about... He talks about invasion, colonies and Commonwealth, which are all
things from the past. Of course, we are part of the Commonwealth but most Quebecers just don't give a **** about that...
Should Quebec seperate?
I would rather ask; should Quebec change? Should Quebec evolve?
If, at a certain point, the change Quebecers want is incompatible with Canada then yes, we should seperate. But for the moment, I really don't think seperating is a necessity. It all depends on how things unfold in the future.
If Quebec did seperate today, it would have absolutely nothing to do with all the "Wolfe/English Colony" mumbo jumbo EastsideScotian is talking about... He talks about invasion, colonies and Commonwealth, which are all
things from the past. Of course, we are part of the Commonwealth but most Quebecers just don't give a **** about that...
Should Quebec seperate?
I would rather ask; should Quebec change? Should Quebec evolve?
If, at a certain point, the change Quebecers want is incompatible with Canada then yes, we should seperate. But for the moment, I really don't think seperating is a necessity. It all depends on how things unfold in the future.
#4
Quebec Separate From Canada
Aug 21st, 2006
It would be terrible if Quebec separated from Canada. Mostly for Quebec. They would have to inherit their share of the debt and they'd loose allot of business. Most of Canada’s history is in Quebec. It would be a shame if they did leave.
In Ottawa, allot of Federal government workers are from Quebec and live on the Quebec side of the Ottawa River. Would they be able to keep there jobs? If Quebec did separate then Canada wouldn't have to be bilingual. That would be great news for many Canadians who can’t get jobs because they are English, despite their university educations.
But all this is nonsense because Quebec can’t separate. They're not allowed. It's not legal. It's time Quebec grew up and became a part of the world. People immigrate to Quebec, they don’t want to separate. Will Montreal ever become a world city? Not with separatists 18th century mentality of preserving culture their culture and not accepting others.
In Ottawa, allot of Federal government workers are from Quebec and live on the Quebec side of the Ottawa River. Would they be able to keep there jobs? If Quebec did separate then Canada wouldn't have to be bilingual. That would be great news for many Canadians who can’t get jobs because they are English, despite their university educations.
But all this is nonsense because Quebec can’t separate. They're not allowed. It's not legal. It's time Quebec grew up and became a part of the world. People immigrate to Quebec, they don’t want to separate. Will Montreal ever become a world city? Not with separatists 18th century mentality of preserving culture their culture and not accepting others.
#5
Aug 21st, 2006
One more thing. If Quebec did separate it wouldn't look like it does now on the map. Would natives want to separate? Would different regions want to as well? Native claim most of the north. Quebec would be much smaller then it is now.
If there is any group of people who should be pissed with Canada it's not the french, it's the First Nations people.
If there is any group of people who should be pissed with Canada it's not the french, it's the First Nations people.
#6
Aug 21st, 2006
Quebec can't seperate?!!
That is another debate. But if a referendum for seperation would pass at 65% you can bet your ass we would seperate. I'm not saying it would be for the best but if Quebec democratically chooses to seperate than it can do so. What would you do? Attack us?
That is another debate. But if a referendum for seperation would pass at 65% you can bet your ass we would seperate. I'm not saying it would be for the best but if Quebec democratically chooses to seperate than it can do so. What would you do? Attack us?
Liberal
#7
Aug 21st, 2006
Quote: Originally Posted by s_lone
I disagree with the very premise of this post.Quebec can't seperate?!!
That is another debate. But if a referendum for seperation would pass at 65% you can bet your ass we would seperate. I'm not saying it would be for the best but if Quebec democratically chooses to seperate than it can do so. What would you do? Attack us?
If a majority of people in the Province of Québec want to separate, then they can get on a boat, search for a rock in the ocean, and set up shop. However, in the meantime, I have the right, as per the Constitution Act, 1982, to come and go from Québec as I please—I consider Québec to be just as much my home as it is yours, s_lone. Why should you have the right to take that away from me? Why should Québec have the right to ignore the Constitution Act, 1982?
#8
Aug 21st, 2006
Why should Québec have the right to ignore the Constitution Act, 1982?
Because Quebec never signed on to the Constitution Act of 1982.
You are right to consider Quebec as your home. I'm glad you do.
Because Quebec never signed on to the Constitution Act of 1982.
You are right to consider Quebec as your home. I'm glad you do.
#9
Aug 21st, 2006
Fortunately, Canada is a federal state, and not a simple democracy. It is a constitutional democracy. The core idea of federations is that they have a tangible and legal reality that is more than the sum of their parts. It would be disastrous for constitutional negotiations to proceed on the premise that a province, if dissatisfied, can overthrow the state. No federation could possibly survive under such conditions. In federations, all serious matters are decided, not by the opinion of one half of any political party, or group, or province, but by the whole nation according to the law of the constitution. No province of Canada has the legal right to separate without the consent of the House of Commons, The Senate, and all the provincial Legislatures. Any other method constitutes a revolt against the government of Canada.
Most of Canada's territory inside Quebec boundaries was originally placed under Quebec's jurisdiction to be administered as a province of Canada, not as a separate nation. Canada would rightfully reclaim it.
Canadians, through their government, alone have the right to decide on all terms and conditions for the break-up of Canada, on debt repayment, or on land settlement, under the law of the Constitution of Canada.
Quebec is my home too, even though I don't live there. I live in Ottawa, and I bike up in the Gatineau and visit friends there. I love Quebec City, Montreal and the Gaspe. A few misguided, brainwashed people have no right to take Quebec from me, or the rest of Canada.
Most of Canada's territory inside Quebec boundaries was originally placed under Quebec's jurisdiction to be administered as a province of Canada, not as a separate nation. Canada would rightfully reclaim it.
Canadians, through their government, alone have the right to decide on all terms and conditions for the break-up of Canada, on debt repayment, or on land settlement, under the law of the Constitution of Canada.
Quebec is my home too, even though I don't live there. I live in Ottawa, and I bike up in the Gatineau and visit friends there. I love Quebec City, Montreal and the Gaspe. A few misguided, brainwashed people have no right to take Quebec from me, or the rest of Canada.
#10
Aug 21st, 2006
Canada should be indivisible. Canada is a country. Quebec, Alberta, etc. are parts of the country, no more, no less.
If Quebec for some unfathomable reason was allowed to separate, there wouldn't be a sovereign Quebec and the rest of Canada. Canada itself would cease to exist.
A default country might be left out of the shattered remnants of the old, but it wouldn't truly be Canada as we know it. It would be something else...that would in all likelihood further splinter off into pieces, and eventually probably become American states.
If Quebec for some unfathomable reason was allowed to separate, there wouldn't be a sovereign Quebec and the rest of Canada. Canada itself would cease to exist.
A default country might be left out of the shattered remnants of the old, but it wouldn't truly be Canada as we know it. It would be something else...that would in all likelihood further splinter off into pieces, and eventually probably become American states.
Liberal
#11
Aug 21st, 2006
Quote: Originally Posted by s_lone
With due respect, s_lone, the enactment of the Constitution Act, 1982 did not require the consent of Québec, nor the other Provinces of Canada—the Supreme Court of Canada (with authority and jurisdiction over Québec, too, just to be clear) has ruled that the enactment required the support of an abstract number of Provinces, not a unanimous decision. Just because Québec Members of Parliament vote against a piece of legislation, doesn't mean that such legislation doesn't apply in Québec.Because Quebec never signed on to the Constitution Act of 1982.
Québec is not, contrary to the above suggestion, above the law.
#12
Aug 21st, 2006
Maybe Quebec separation is part of Harpers "Hidden Agenda" because if he encourages it then it sets the precedent for Alberta to separate and join the USA.
#13
Aug 21st, 2006
You all have good and essential points. Quebec can't just decide to seperate and avoid all the legal issues. We need to be realist and understand that we are part of Canada and that seperating would be a BIG deal for ALL Canadians.
But the fact remains that if a strong majority of Quebecers answered a clear question and decided to become sovereign, the government of Canada, representing its citizens, would have to negotiate. Any attempt to impose its will on the citizens of the province of Quebec would simply widen the gap between Quebec and Canada and give way to a deeper political crisis.
But the fact remains that if a strong majority of Quebecers answered a clear question and decided to become sovereign, the government of Canada, representing its citizens, would have to negotiate. Any attempt to impose its will on the citizens of the province of Quebec would simply widen the gap between Quebec and Canada and give way to a deeper political crisis.
#14
Aug 21st, 2006
An important point. This debate needs to be honest. Saying that a country of Quebec would have a garbage government is rubbish and trash talk. Quebecers are as smart and decent as the rest of Canada and would do their best to have a good government.
#15
Aug 21st, 2006
I agree that Quebecers are smart. Thats why they never vote to seperate. I do believe they could run a good government, Canada has had some good french Canadian Prime Ministers. But separatists have a habbit of lying to Quebecers, confusing the question of separation, and being racist (loosing because of the "ethnic" vote). Do you want that government running a Quebec country? Do you want "language police"?
#16
Aug 21st, 2006
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonzo
You can't put all the seperatists in the same basket. This is the most common mistake ROCers make while discussing Quebec seperation. The debate in Quebec is whole lot richer than most Canadians and federalists would like to think. It's not the good federalists against the evil seperatists.I agree that Quebecers are smart. Thats why they never vote to seperate. I do believe they could run a good government, Canada has had some good french Canadian Prime Ministers. But separatists have a habbit of lying to Quebecers, confusing the question of separation, and being racist (loosing because of the "ethnic" vote). Do you want that government running a Quebec country? Do you want "language police"?
Seperatists come in all sorts. Separatist does not equal racist. Seperatist does not equal liar.
The 'ethnic vote' story is about Parizeau. Not about the seperatist movement as a whole.
#17
Aug 21st, 2006
I know that not all separatists are racist. I know a few separatists and they have intelligent reasons to separate. I don't agree with them, but they are thought out.
I know about Parizeau, that’s why I brought it up. Why does Quebec want to separate? To preserve their culture. But what about the minority of Quebecers who are not French? Do they not have a place in Quebec? If you say yes, then why can't you preserve your culture in Canada, a multi cultural society? Because if Quebec were to separate they would be rejecting Canada and it's culture, fearing that it's encroaching on Quebec culture. Then that would mean the minority of people in Quebec who are not French are encroaching too. That would me the minority vote.
I think French culture would survive in Canada; so much of Canada’s history involves Quebec and the French. Why would Canada not want to preserve its French heritage?
I know about Parizeau, that’s why I brought it up. Why does Quebec want to separate? To preserve their culture. But what about the minority of Quebecers who are not French? Do they not have a place in Quebec? If you say yes, then why can't you preserve your culture in Canada, a multi cultural society? Because if Quebec were to separate they would be rejecting Canada and it's culture, fearing that it's encroaching on Quebec culture. Then that would mean the minority of people in Quebec who are not French are encroaching too. That would me the minority vote.
I think French culture would survive in Canada; so much of Canada’s history involves Quebec and the French. Why would Canada not want to preserve its French heritage?
#18
Aug 21st, 2006
I'll speak for myselff here because many seperatists would not agree with me (I consider myslef a very soft seperatist).
I think Quebec's culture is very well secured in Canada. I agree with you that we can preserve our culture without rejecting Canadian culture. Both are intimately connected. Personally, I am satisfied with how things are evolving culturally. That probably has to do with the fact that I am bilingual...
The problem with the seperatists is that they are divided. They don't agree to why exactly we should seperate. The day there will be a global agreement, Canada should be worried.
My strong interest for Quebec nationalism lies in its POTENTIAL to gather and unite a large portion of the Quebec population. Personally, I think Quebec nationalism plays an important balancing role for all that has to do with power. While I'm all for uniting on an international level, I'm a strong supporter of "local" power. I want Quebec to be as independant as possible, without being self-centered and isolated from the rest of the world.
I think Quebec's culture is very well secured in Canada. I agree with you that we can preserve our culture without rejecting Canadian culture. Both are intimately connected. Personally, I am satisfied with how things are evolving culturally. That probably has to do with the fact that I am bilingual...
The problem with the seperatists is that they are divided. They don't agree to why exactly we should seperate. The day there will be a global agreement, Canada should be worried.
My strong interest for Quebec nationalism lies in its POTENTIAL to gather and unite a large portion of the Quebec population. Personally, I think Quebec nationalism plays an important balancing role for all that has to do with power. While I'm all for uniting on an international level, I'm a strong supporter of "local" power. I want Quebec to be as independant as possible, without being self-centered and isolated from the rest of the world.
#19
Aug 21st, 2006
I think that if Quebec has another referendum, the rest of Canada should also have a referendum with a clear question that would ask if the rest of Canada wants Quebec to stay or not. I am bilingual and I have had enough of the province of Quebec holding the threat of separation over our heads.
#20
Aug 21st, 2006
Well, I don't think that Quebec separatism is hanging over our head because I don't believe they can legally separate. Plus, I don’t think enough Quebecers want to separate.
I can understand separatism ideals when it comes to a way of life that differs from much of Canada, a distinct way of life. I can also understand the argument that Quebec has potential. It certainly does. However, Canada has many distinct societies, natives being the oldest way of life here. And I'm not so sure that Quebec's potential can be achieved from separation. To me, separating is a way of isolating your society. Quebec needs to open up and let the world in. Isolating yourself is no way to reach your potential.
There are brilliant artists, musicians, and scholars in Quebec. My personal favorite Quebecer PM, Pierre Trudeau, reached his potential by going out into the world. When he came back he was dead set against separation. A Quebecer defended Canada from another Quebecer wanting to carve it up. Trudeau was an intellectual, Levesque was more passionate. But Trudeau had greater knowledge, having traveled the world, and I believe he knew what was best for his home province and country.
I can understand separatism ideals when it comes to a way of life that differs from much of Canada, a distinct way of life. I can also understand the argument that Quebec has potential. It certainly does. However, Canada has many distinct societies, natives being the oldest way of life here. And I'm not so sure that Quebec's potential can be achieved from separation. To me, separating is a way of isolating your society. Quebec needs to open up and let the world in. Isolating yourself is no way to reach your potential.
There are brilliant artists, musicians, and scholars in Quebec. My personal favorite Quebecer PM, Pierre Trudeau, reached his potential by going out into the world. When he came back he was dead set against separation. A Quebecer defended Canada from another Quebecer wanting to carve it up. Trudeau was an intellectual, Levesque was more passionate. But Trudeau had greater knowledge, having traveled the world, and I believe he knew what was best for his home province and country.
#21
Aug 21st, 2006
u guys noe they didnt sign *i believe* the constutition....(i could be wrong)....technically quebec isnt part of canada....but it is...lol....
#22
Aug 21st, 2006
In my opinion, the argument that Quebec belongs to Canada and that by law it can't seperate is neutralized by the argument that Quebec is not, to this day, signed on to the constitution. Law and politics aren't quite the smae thing...
As long as the constitutional issue isn't solved, the seperatist movement is more than legitimate.
As long as the constitutional issue isn't solved, the seperatist movement is more than legitimate.
#23
Aug 21st, 2006
I think the larger issue here is how independant are provinces anyways...I think each province has enough autonomy that it would serve no purpose to seperate...and really no purpose to stay together. I mean, Quebec is more or less a seperate entity anyways (with its language laws, its financial laws, and so on and so forth). But every province can make the argument that its a single entity. Look at Alberta. Cripes, we do things by a different drummer...and with the Not Withstanding Clause, we can pretty much do our own thing anyway..with or without Canada.
Let's also reexamine how we percieve Canada. It seems to me that the common consensus is that Canada is better when the power is ****ed to Ottawa instead of the Provinces. It only seems that if the power shifts away from a centralized federal government into the hands of provinces, everyone goes all bat**** crazy and declares seperation is a risk.
The two powers can coexist without threats of seperation or what have you. For all intensive purposes, Quebec is a seperate nation within a nation already, as is every other provinces.
Money and shared heritage is what ultimately binds us. And if Quebecers genuinely feel that they are a better seperate power completely tied off rather than a seperate power with strong ties..than I won't stop them from deciding their own future.
Let's also reexamine how we percieve Canada. It seems to me that the common consensus is that Canada is better when the power is ****ed to Ottawa instead of the Provinces. It only seems that if the power shifts away from a centralized federal government into the hands of provinces, everyone goes all bat**** crazy and declares seperation is a risk.
The two powers can coexist without threats of seperation or what have you. For all intensive purposes, Quebec is a seperate nation within a nation already, as is every other provinces.
Money and shared heritage is what ultimately binds us. And if Quebecers genuinely feel that they are a better seperate power completely tied off rather than a seperate power with strong ties..than I won't stop them from deciding their own future.
Conservative
#24
Aug 22nd, 2006
Alberta is the ony province that should consider separation. It's a huge success story and the rest of the provinces must seem like baggage to Albertans. Separation involves enormous risks. That you're economically strong is essential.
#25
Aug 22nd, 2006
Quote: Originally Posted by tamarin
Yeah you've got to hand it to those Albertans for creating all of that oil. Too bad they put it in sand cos it makes it a bit tricky to get it out.Alberta is the ony province that should consider separation. It's a huge success story and the rest of the provinces must seem like baggage to Albertans. Separation involves enormous risks. That you're economically strong is essential.
#26
Aug 22nd, 2006
Too bad Alberta was created by Canada and belongs to Canada. Right now they're in a boom. But it wont last forever, like Newfoundland and the fishing industry. They thought the fish would be there forever. Now they need money from the rest of Canada. Alberta needs Canada and will need Canada when the boom is over.
#27
Aug 22nd, 2006
The fact is people aren't going to go out and vote on economic issues. The reason sovereignty is so popular in Quebec is because there is cultural, historical, and sociological evidence that supports the notion that Quebec is a political nation. It's not so much that they're against federalism or Canada, or that they want to isolate themselves from the world, but that they feel the current federal system isn't the ideal system for them, and that it's not responsive enough to the issues that are important to them.
Unfortunately, the 1982 Consititution, the disasterous Meeche Lake Accord, and the recent Sponsorship Scandal haven't really done much to improve that system in their eyes. I'm not saying that I support Quebec sovereignty, but I can definitely see where it's coming from. And how it's more than just a French vs English thing.
Unfortunately, the 1982 Consititution, the disasterous Meeche Lake Accord, and the recent Sponsorship Scandal haven't really done much to improve that system in their eyes. I'm not saying that I support Quebec sovereignty, but I can definitely see where it's coming from. And how it's more than just a French vs English thing.
#29
Aug 22nd, 2006
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonzo
It would be terrible if Quebec separated from Canada. Mostly for Quebec. They would have to inherit their share of the debt and they'd loose allot of business. Most of Canada’s history is in Quebec. It would be a shame if they did leave.
In Ottawa, allot of Federal government workers are from Quebec and live on the Quebec side of the Ottawa River. Would they be able to keep there jobs? If Quebec did separate then Canada wouldn't have to be bilingual. That would be great news for many Canadians who can’t get jobs because they are English, despite their university educations.
But all this is nonsense because Quebec can’t separate. They're not allowed. It's not legal. It's time Quebec grew up and became a part of the world. People immigrate to Quebec, they don’t want to separate. Will Montreal ever become a world city? Not with separatists 18th century mentality of preserving culture their culture and not accepting others.
Great ignorant comment, montreal isnt a separatist city,i don't know where you get this information, but it is about time, you in fact grow up.
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