#1Aug 16th, 2006
Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teachers
#2
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 16th, 2006
Only entertainers make so much money. They are famous because they're on TV. I don’t care about celebrities at all. Why is Paris Hilton famous? She doesn't do anything! People make a big deal about her, or sports athletes, but not cancer researchers.
#3
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys
Aug 16th, 2006
Hockey players are paid more because there are more people out there willing to pay money to see them play, or to buy products which they are advertising. Is it right? I don't think so, but then again I won't pay the ridiculous amount of money it costs to go see a hockey game and I will rarely watch it on tv. Nor am I influenced by athletes in commercials. If anything I try to avoid those companies. If they can afford to pay millions of dollars to pay a celebrity, then they are charging way too much money for their product in my opinion. I'd rather buy a product that passes on the savings. But as long as there are people out there willing to pay more for something advertised by a celebrity, or willing to pay big bucks to see a hockey game, athletes will continue to make lots of money.
#4
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 16th, 2006
I agree. People bitch all the time, yet fork out the dough to watch games.
#5
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 16th, 2006
Sport, the new opium of the masses!
Keeps minds occupied and in a maintained state of anticipation for more of the same "relevant", whatever is presented.
Helps the consum of goods too; and of course you need focal points>>stars.
Their agents and unions will take care for top enumerations , cause the "employers", clubs, owners rake in much more.
Add sponsorships and the picture gets bizarre.
And everyone likes that new guy who can top perform what matters in sport.
In our polarised way of looking at socialism or capitalism nobody has the dare or cloud to draw a line and differentiate.
The annual limit where taxation starts here in Nova Scotia is about $ 8k/pa
and progressing rapidly.
If your income is far beyond, all kind of measures can be employed to prevent and shift taxes for the income blessed.
Question remains, why our society values menial hard work so little in comparison to other highend incomers.
At the same time upward mobility in regards to position and income is constantly eroded and the "middle incomer" group shrunk in numbers.
Luxury car makers (Mercedes, Porsche etc) are selling record numbers in a climate of economic downturn for some european contries.
Social Darwinism you say, well peoples might respond at some point.
Thats where "Sports" comes in; it postphones the pain threshold to act.
Take away their Tim Horton and things will break down sooner.
Society is that stupid; designed and nutured that way.
Need a Apple fritter now, cheers
nelk
Keeps minds occupied and in a maintained state of anticipation for more of the same "relevant", whatever is presented.
Helps the consum of goods too; and of course you need focal points>>stars.
Their agents and unions will take care for top enumerations , cause the "employers", clubs, owners rake in much more.
Add sponsorships and the picture gets bizarre.
And everyone likes that new guy who can top perform what matters in sport.
In our polarised way of looking at socialism or capitalism nobody has the dare or cloud to draw a line and differentiate.
The annual limit where taxation starts here in Nova Scotia is about $ 8k/pa
and progressing rapidly.
If your income is far beyond, all kind of measures can be employed to prevent and shift taxes for the income blessed.
Question remains, why our society values menial hard work so little in comparison to other highend incomers.
At the same time upward mobility in regards to position and income is constantly eroded and the "middle incomer" group shrunk in numbers.
Luxury car makers (Mercedes, Porsche etc) are selling record numbers in a climate of economic downturn for some european contries.
Social Darwinism you say, well peoples might respond at some point.
Thats where "Sports" comes in; it postphones the pain threshold to act.
Take away their Tim Horton and things will break down sooner.
Society is that stupid; designed and nutured that way.
Need a Apple fritter now, cheers
nelk
#6
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 16th, 2006
People should have wakened up after the hockey strike, and boycotted the game. Its asinine the salary these guys get. Professional sport is definitely not sport any more. Just big business, and enough is enough! Boycott professional sports!!
#7
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 16th, 2006
I can answer this question pretty easy.
The simplest form of the answer is supply and demand -market value.
There are many people who are more than willing and capable to be a police officer for 41000/ year, or a doctor for 130,000/ year.
There are only enough places for what 180 hockey players in canada (30 per team) and to attract the fans you need the best, to get the best you have to pay them equivlant to what they can attract in revenues.
The simplest form of the answer is supply and demand -market value.
There are many people who are more than willing and capable to be a police officer for 41000/ year, or a doctor for 130,000/ year.
There are only enough places for what 180 hockey players in canada (30 per team) and to attract the fans you need the best, to get the best you have to pay them equivlant to what they can attract in revenues.
#8
Re: RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a tea
Aug 16th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by Hotshot
I don't mind sport as recreation. But, I oppose sport as religion.People should have wakened up after the hockey strike, and boycotted the game. Its asinine the salary these guys get. Professional sport is definitely not sport any more. Just big business, and enough is enough! Boycott professional sports!!
No Party Affiliation
#9
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006
Well, let's all try to understand something, shall we? Professional sports are entertainment, and we've always given exorbitant incomes to our most popular entertainers. But that's only a first level explanation, it still remains to be determined why we're willing to pay our most popular entertainers such vast sums. I've always wondered why a bozo like Wayne Newton, a puerile performer whose voice hasn't even changed yet despite his advancing age, makes so much more money than I do. I don't think he's as good at what he does as I am at what I do, or did before I retired. And what he does isn't as important as what I did either. If he screws up, a few hundred people go away pissed off at a bad performance, if I screwed up a few hundred people couldn't work at all because the networks and telecommunications systems they need weren't working, probably for a period at least as long as Wayne Newton's crummy show.
Gotta be plain old supply and demand. Network managers are fairly common, good entertainers are not.
But dammit, Wayne Newton's not even a good entertainer, and he still earns something like 10 to 20 times as much as I do. There's no justice.
Gotta be plain old supply and demand. Network managers are fairly common, good entertainers are not.
But dammit, Wayne Newton's not even a good entertainer, and he still earns something like 10 to 20 times as much as I do. There's no justice.
#10
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006
Ban products, Not going to happen, avoid contact with sports and its advertising arm, almost impossible. I believe we must ask our companies to take a moral stand and promote the careers of all working people. Create an advertising world that mentors our youth to see themselves in a position in the world work force.
#11
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006
mikewest: The Companies do what will sell their products.
The fact is joe blow's opinion or face on a product doesn’t make you remember the product.
Some people are mistaken to think that the only reason we have a celebrity promote a product is because if the Celeb has it then everyone will want it. That is only a small part of the picture when we are dealing with the advertising world. (marketing via having a celebrity actually use your product is another story)
In advertising we pair celebrities with product for top of mind awareness correlation. For instance when you think of or see Kristie Allie these days, you think of Jenny Craig
It should be obvious that a person is going to see more of Kristie Allie on "cheers" then they are of Jenny Craig commercials. How about Shaq and Icy Hot Back Patch.
While yes both of the celebs COULD have need for the respective products. We know damn well that they have much better ways of getting the results. The point is to plant a top of mind awareness.
Although I think the most amazing example of why we use celebs and NOT Office worker John Smith, is in the new Geico commercials, where they have a twist on the "personal testimonial" advertisement. They have Joe blow say the real information, then Little Rickard say nothing of any more consequence than "REMEBER ME IN THIS COMMERCIAL!!" because we sure as hell wouldn't remember the office worker or stay at home mom.
Not one of you know what the "regular" people even said, yet you remember the celebrity.. Obviously what the real person said is completely unimportant in the long run as well.
Bad commercial: Lakeport testimonial, (they ask people on the street why they drink lakeport) People on the street say something like "because it is cheap, and I like the taste", None of them say anything " catchy, and those people them selves are long forgotten and never to be thought of again by the time you are in the beer store. You certainly aren't going to randomly think of or see Joe Blow in the commercial let alone associate him with lakeport.
The fact is joe blow's opinion or face on a product doesn’t make you remember the product.
Some people are mistaken to think that the only reason we have a celebrity promote a product is because if the Celeb has it then everyone will want it. That is only a small part of the picture when we are dealing with the advertising world. (marketing via having a celebrity actually use your product is another story)
In advertising we pair celebrities with product for top of mind awareness correlation. For instance when you think of or see Kristie Allie these days, you think of Jenny Craig
It should be obvious that a person is going to see more of Kristie Allie on "cheers" then they are of Jenny Craig commercials. How about Shaq and Icy Hot Back Patch.
While yes both of the celebs COULD have need for the respective products. We know damn well that they have much better ways of getting the results. The point is to plant a top of mind awareness.
Although I think the most amazing example of why we use celebs and NOT Office worker John Smith, is in the new Geico commercials, where they have a twist on the "personal testimonial" advertisement. They have Joe blow say the real information, then Little Rickard say nothing of any more consequence than "REMEBER ME IN THIS COMMERCIAL!!" because we sure as hell wouldn't remember the office worker or stay at home mom.
Not one of you know what the "regular" people even said, yet you remember the celebrity.. Obviously what the real person said is completely unimportant in the long run as well.
Bad commercial: Lakeport testimonial, (they ask people on the street why they drink lakeport) People on the street say something like "because it is cheap, and I like the taste", None of them say anything " catchy, and those people them selves are long forgotten and never to be thought of again by the time you are in the beer store. You certainly aren't going to randomly think of or see Joe Blow in the commercial let alone associate him with lakeport.
#12
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by mikewest
Why would company X pay money to advertise to try and lead people in to a career, when what they want to do is sell a product?Create an advertising world that mentors our youth to see themselves in a position in the world work force.
#13
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006
The hypocrisy is dripping. The same folks who are 'above' the mass culture of the common man and refuse to watch sports, ar the same who buy into the other 1,000 products with equally dubious value.
Never buy music CDs? Rent a movie? Have cable? Eat at Mcdonalds? Have a Tim Horton's coffee? Play a video game? Read a magazine?
I'm not a big sports fan. Have never bought a ticket to an event. I don't think, however, someone is a dupe or moron because they buy a ticket for a hockey game anymore than I'm a dupe to spend money on tickest so my wife and I can enjoy our local drama theatre or some 20-year-ols is a dupe for spending money on a video game.
Never buy music CDs? Rent a movie? Have cable? Eat at Mcdonalds? Have a Tim Horton's coffee? Play a video game? Read a magazine?
I'm not a big sports fan. Have never bought a ticket to an event. I don't think, however, someone is a dupe or moron because they buy a ticket for a hockey game anymore than I'm a dupe to spend money on tickest so my wife and I can enjoy our local drama theatre or some 20-year-ols is a dupe for spending money on a video game.
#14
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006
There's only a limited number of really talented hockey players. Less than demand allows but I usually only check out the playoffs anyways.
#15
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006Quote:
I can hardly believe this, seeing as all of the position wages are set by market value. How can you really say an athelete should be paid less than those other positions?Who should we pay more ?
a professional athlete
28% [ 2 ]
a teacher , doctor . policeman, fireman , a social leader
71% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 7
I assume you don't wish to increase the wages of the other professions as that would just lead to 1. a bankrupt nation then 2. a whole bunch of retired police men, fire men, and doctors (I don't even know what to say about "social leader")
So you must all be wishing that atheletes wages were lower than say a police officer, and therefore tickets will be less (of course you have it all wrong atheletes wages are high because tickets sell at high prices not the other way around)
You see the ACC is filled now, why would the owner charge less when people are more than willing to pay. In an industry like sports where the players ARE the business, they have the value to demand a large portion of the income.
If you don't have the money to go see the real pros then go to an OHL or other lower league. Where the owner can't charge as much because there isn't the demand. Of course the players will also paid according the their market value.
#16
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by athabaska
But if someone buys a pair of Nike shoes just because Nike paid Michael Jordan millions of dollars to endorse their product, then that person is a dupe in my opinion. Most people should realize that Michael Jordan is not endorsing the product because he honestly feels it is the best product, but because he is being paid millions to do so. Anyone who doesn't realize that is a dupe.The hypocrisy is dripping. The same folks who are 'above' the mass culture of the common man and refuse to watch sports, ar the same who buy into the other 1,000 products with equally dubious value.
Never buy music CDs? Rent a movie? Have cable? Eat at Mcdonalds? Have a Tim Horton's coffee? Play a video game? Read a magazine?
I'm not a big sports fan. Have never bought a ticket to an event. I don't think, however, someone is a dupe or moron because they buy a ticket for a hockey game anymore than I'm a dupe to spend money on tickest so my wife and I can enjoy our local drama theatre or some 20-year-ols is a dupe for spending money on a video game.
No Party Affiliation
#17
Re: RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a tea
Aug 17th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by Graeme
I would say most policemen with three years on the force are making well over fifty grand. My wife has been retired from nursing for seven years now but in her last year she made around fifty thousand. We know doctors who regularly make $200000.00.I can answer this question pretty easy.
The simplest form of the answer is supply and demand -market value.
There are many people who are more than willing and capable to be a police officer for 41000/ year, or a doctor for 130,000/ year.
There are only enough places for what 180 hockey players in canada (30 per team) and to attract the fans you need the best, to get the best you have to pay them equivlant to what they can attract in revenues.
There are places for quite a few Canadian hockey players on every team in the NHL. 30 teams? I know there are lots of Europeans in the professional game now but Canadians are still the majority.
Hockey is entertainment, pure and simple. Sponsors pay big money and the players get big money.
#18
Re: RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a tea
Aug 17th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
Juan I have to say I really don't know what a policman is making with three years on the force, I am sure it depends a lot on performance and what type of qualifications and specifically what form of policing they do.Quote: Originally Posted by GraemeI would say most policemen with three years on the force are making well over fifty grand. My wife has been retired from nursing for seven years now but in her last year she made around fifty thousand. We know doctors who regularly make $200000.00.I can answer this question pretty easy.
The simplest form of the answer is supply and demand -market value.
There are many people who are more than willing and capable to be a police officer for 41000/ year, or a doctor for 130,000/ year.
There are only enough places for what 180 hockey players in canada (30 per team) and to attract the fans you need the best, to get the best you have to pay them equivlant to what they can attract in revenues.
There are places for quite a few Canadian hockey players on every team in the NHL. 30 teams? I know there are lots of Europeans in the professional game now but Canadians are still the majority.
Hockey is entertainment, pure and simple. Sponsors pay big money and the players get big money.
The info that I gave was the approximate average in 2004 I think.
As for the doctors wages, I just made a guess based on what the army will pay to start an experienced doctor.
regardless of the exact numbers the point is that there are many thousands of people willing to do the job for the wage it provides.
30 players/team - 6 teams (NHL in canada)
No Party Affiliation
#19
Re: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 17th, 2006
Forgive me Graeme,
I should have been more clear. I'm sure the remuneration varies widely across the country.
My point about the hockey was that every one of the 30 or so teams in the NHL have at least half Canadian players. A new player right out of the junior ranks who was drafted in the top ten will command a million dollar salary. I guess what it means is that there are more people who can get through medical school than can play hockey at the top level.
I should have been more clear. I'm sure the remuneration varies widely across the country.
My point about the hockey was that every one of the 30 or so teams in the NHL have at least half Canadian players. A new player right out of the junior ranks who was drafted in the top ten will command a million dollar salary. I guess what it means is that there are more people who can get through medical school than can play hockey at the top level.
#20
Re: RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a tea
Aug 17th, 2006
Hockey is entertainment, pure and simple. Sponsors pay big money and the players get big money.[/quote]
I like this one the most. The point is regardless if you like entertainment or not you are indirectly paying big money so entertainers - players get big money through everything you buy. As consumer we should promote companies that sponsor thing that make a positive difference in the world. How much would you pay a doctor that saved your life or a Policeman that caught a criminal that affects your life in a bad way. Just like the Master Card commercial. Priceless. Advertisement looks at the masses. If the Masses wanted company to positively affect the world they will change to follow the Masses. Next time your in a store look at how they advertise. Ask if they sponcer social oganization in your community. If we just asked we would make a difference.
I like this one the most. The point is regardless if you like entertainment or not you are indirectly paying big money so entertainers - players get big money through everything you buy. As consumer we should promote companies that sponsor thing that make a positive difference in the world. How much would you pay a doctor that saved your life or a Policeman that caught a criminal that affects your life in a bad way. Just like the Master Card commercial. Priceless. Advertisement looks at the masses. If the Masses wanted company to positively affect the world they will change to follow the Masses. Next time your in a store look at how they advertise. Ask if they sponcer social oganization in your community. If we just asked we would make a difference.
#21
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys
Aug 17th, 2006
Guess more parents should send their kids to little league instead of hitting the books. 
And I see people comparing the salaries of average doctors to the best athletes in their sport on the planet.
Compare the best doctors salaries to the best athletes. Both make millions. (Yes, doctors make millions)
Compare an average or less than average doctor to an average or less than average athlete. The doctor makes 6 figures, but the athlete earns....nothing, in most cases. Seems like the doctor wins out here.
And if you still think it isn't fair, quit your job and be a pro athlete. What? Can't do that? THAT'S why the ones that can make so much.
And I see people comparing the salaries of average doctors to the best athletes in their sport on the planet.
Compare the best doctors salaries to the best athletes. Both make millions. (Yes, doctors make millions)
Compare an average or less than average doctor to an average or less than average athlete. The doctor makes 6 figures, but the athlete earns....nothing, in most cases. Seems like the doctor wins out here.
And if you still think it isn't fair, quit your job and be a pro athlete. What? Can't do that? THAT'S why the ones that can make so much.
#22
Re: RE: Why do we pay Hockeys
Aug 18th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by blugoo
I'm not complaining about not making the money. I just feel that right now I have no choice but to support the entertainment business. Everything you purchase general has advertisement cost to do with entertainers, athletes being one of them. Look at the super bowl. Every company is making enough money to sponsor that game. Who ends up paying for that advertisement. We all do if we are living and breathing with 1/2 an IQ. Wouldn’t it be great if you could watch a game with zero advertisement. Wouldn’t it be great if Ford or GM was the leading sponsor for Youth development in sports? Promoting healthy living so that most kids don’t become fat couch potatoes by the time there 20. I know that won’t happen. But the next time you buy a car ask them how much of the cost of that car goes into advertising. Society has been brain washed and we just keep paying for it.
And if you still think it isn't fair, quit your job and be a pro athlete. What? Can't do that? THAT'S why the ones that can make so much.
#23
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 18th, 2006
I totally agree that we pay way to much to anyone that playes sports, take the England football team for instance, a bunch of w**kers anyway and they played like W**nkers too simply because they didnt want to get hurt incase they could not play in the next game for the team they play for, they totally did not try at all. I cant stand football at the best of times, but will support England in the world cup, they didn't even deserve to get where they did. It sickens me that someone that kicks a ball around for 90 mins gets £30.000 per week while a fireman or policeman work long hours and everyday put there lives at risk to keep us safe, and for what? not much I can tell you.
Its a screwd up world we live in!!
Its a screwd up world we live in!!
#24
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 18th, 2006
Carmoral: so what exactly would you suggest to fix your supposed problem?
#25
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 18th, 2006
ahhh...that old age question on how to fix the world, if I knew that i would be the next prime minister, but seen as I dont and no one else has come up with a good solution, looks like Ill be backing a loser team again and our real heros are fighting a losing battle.
#26
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 18th, 2006
Graeme if you asked the question you must know the answer.
#27
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 22nd, 2006
Graeme if you asked the question you must know the answer.
#28
RE: Why do we pay Hockeys players more than we pay a teacher
Aug 22nd, 2006
I think you can fix the problem because there is no problem to be fixed.
Market Value is what it is, one of two things need to be done to stop sports players making more than doctors firemen, and police.
1.) train the public not to want to become a doctor fireman or policeman so that less people will do it and the marketvalue of each of those will increase.
2.) Somehow make a lot more people really good at a bunch of sports, so again the supply of worthwhile players is much higher and there is more competition to get the job, (therefore lower wage), oh you will also have to train EVERYONE not to celebritize people anymore.
Market Value is what it is, one of two things need to be done to stop sports players making more than doctors firemen, and police.
1.) train the public not to want to become a doctor fireman or policeman so that less people will do it and the marketvalue of each of those will increase.
2.) Somehow make a lot more people really good at a bunch of sports, so again the supply of worthwhile players is much higher and there is more competition to get the job, (therefore lower wage), oh you will also have to train EVERYONE not to celebritize people anymore.
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