Soft wood Lumber, yet again.

[#juan]

It doesn't seem that long ago that Harper's crowd triumphantly announced that we had a new deal with soft wood lumber. All we had to do was give the Americans one billion of the five billion dollars that was illegally collected. It didn't sound like much of a deal then, and apparently, even that deal is toast. Rightly, or wrongly, I thought Harper made some brownie points with that announcement. Those brownie points will disappear along with the points that are going down the road because of the perception that Harper is too cozy with the U.S. on the Middle East.

 

[BitWhys]

"Peace in out time" :lol:

Rumour has it Emerson's calling in the players to remind them the "my way or the highway" clause of the riot act.

 

[Blackleaf]

Who's Harper?

 

[JonB2004]

It doesn't seem that long ago that Harper's crowd triumphantly announced that we had a new deal with soft wood lumber. All we had to do was give the Americans one billion of the five billion dollars that was illegally collected. It didn't sound like much of a deal then, and apparently, even that deal is toast. Rightly, or wrongly, I thought Harper made some brownie points with that announcement. Those brownie points will disappear along with the points that are going down the road because of the perception that Harper is too cozy with the U.S. on the Middle East.

Yes, I'm not impressed with the fact that we only got 80% of the $5 billion. But at least it's more than the Liberals did. For the entire time Paul Martin was in, all he did was talk about it. He never took any action to get it done.

 

[BitWhys]

He never took any action to get it done.

oh bullshit

It was Emerson's file under Martin. All those court cases didn't get navigated by themselves. The only thing that made it even briefly look like there was solution in sight in the political theater was Emerson exercising his god given right as a politician to cross the floor and bend over.

 

[I think not]

If anybody got the shitty end of the deal here, it has been the American consumer. What are you people babbling about? The importing companies pay the countervailing duties and it is passed along to the consumer. You shouldn't have gotten a penny. Consider yourselves getting the better deal.

 

[#juan]

FYI ITN,

When those countervailing duties were announced, thirty thousand lumber workers were laid off. Just before Christmas as I recall. What a great Christmas gift. There were, and are, other ramifications but I thought you should know about at least one of them.

 

[Gonzo]

The Liberals were not going to take a crap deal like Harper did. We won all the court cases and yet Harper let the States have 20% of what's owed to us. Way to go Harper.
When the US stopped honoring the free trade agreement, the cost of American homes went up because of the rise in cost of lumber. There were many Americans who sided with Canada.

 

[VoteForGraeme]

maybe you guys don't understand the way deals are made.

FIRST the fact is our lumber industry was in a way subsidized. But never mind that, lets just say we really do deserve all of the money back.

The US was not going to accept that PERIOD.

Now maybe you guys can't do math BUT 4,000,000,000 now, has a 5 year future value of at least 5,877,312,307

and that is only at 8 % per year, believe me you can make a lot more when you are talking about millions of dollars.

You left wingers, don't even have a hint of practicality in your blood do you? I wonder how you even pay your bills
or save for a good retirement.

Do you understand how a mortgage works? Do you know what owners equity is and how you can make money using it?

Or are you just a bunch of kids, mad a the world?

 

[BitWhys]

gee

who'da thunk the industry leaders hadn't figured that out already and it would take an unperson to 'splain it to us.

how embarrassing. :wink:

 

[#juan]

Yes, and if we look at the five year future value of five million, it would be a lot more. We either have free trade or we don't. That is the only question to be asked. If we do have free trade, there is no duty. Simple as that.

 

[VoteForGraeme]

The industry leaders in Canada do know that, and that is why they were very accepting of the deal.

what is an unperson?

it has to be explained to some people obviously, because they are calling it a bad deal.

 

[VoteForGraeme]

Yes, and if we look at the five year future value of five million, it would be a lot more. We either have free trade or we don't. That is the only question to be asked. If we do have free trade, there is no duty. Simple as that.

Juan, I the original mess started when the government started to subsidize the lumber industry, and prices dropped very low.

free trade must be as fair as possible.

That is why there are restrictions in the deal on the price of softwood lumber. If the price drops to low (which in canada can happen directly because of the subsidization of the lumber industry) than the canadian government must charge an export tax. OR a limit can be put on the amount they may export (it's up to the company).


Quotes:

B.C., Quebec, Ontario back deal

Ontario Natural Resources Minister David Ramsay said the province would now support the agreement, after it was assured it would get a bigger share of the U.S. market.

"While this arrangement would require each jurisdiction to make some concessions, Ontario got a critical element – a more reasonable share of softwood exports," Ramsay said in a statement.

B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell expressed support, saying "on balance, it's a reasonable deal for Canada and a good deal for British Columbia."

Quebec Economic Development Minister Raymond Bachand said it's "the best deal."

"We're very happy with this deal. Most of what we wanted, we've gained for the first time."

Opposition slams agreement

But Opposition Leader Bill Graham blasted the agreement. He said its details will reveal "draconian measures" that will "punish our industry."

He called the agreement a great deal for the Americans but a "disaster for Canada."

Speaking of stupid quotes: and this one is a real doozie considering how accepted the deal is:

It really shows why the NDP could not possibly run this country.

NDP Leader Jack Layton also criticized the U.S. for keeping $1 billion in duties.

"It is incredible that such a thing could be called acceptable," Layton said.

"It's like if a judge said to a thief all you have to do is pay back 80 cents on the dollar and we'll call it even."

 

[Caleb-Dain Matton]

free trade must be as fair as possible.

[/quote]

Why do you think us protestors went to the FTAA in Quebec. Your stating stuff that we said a decade ago. Welcome to the club!

 

[I think not]

FYI ITN,

When those countervailing duties were announced, thirty thousand lumber workers were laid off. Just before Christmas as I recall. What a great Christmas gift. There were, and are, other ramifications but I thought you should know about at least one of them.

Yes I am aware of that. Tragic. But when workers were laid off because Canada refused to comply with the beer dispute nobody in Canada gave a dam. So why do you expect anybody in the US to do so? Strange isn't it?

Anyway, that's not even the point anymore. The new found bitching is that Harper decided to bend over for Bush, by accepting $4 billion out of $5 billion of alleged Canadian money.

That's bullshit. That $5 billion didn't come from the Canadian government, it didn't come from the Canadian Lumber Industry and it certainly didn't come from the Canadian consumer.

It came from the American consumer. You got $4 billion from the American people.

Quit whining.

 

[#juan]

That's bullshit. That $5 billion didn't come from the Canadian government, it didn't come from the Canadian Lumber Industry and it certainly didn't come from the Canadian consumer.

It came from the American consumer. You got $4 billion from the American people.

As usual, you are blinded by your own footwork. Our lumber, from larger, more modern sawmills, more accessible trees, suddenly was hit by huge tariffs and were forced to compete with all the small lumber mills in the U.S. and we had to drop the real price further. The tariffs hurt our lumber workers and it hurt the people who sold to these workers. Did the tariffs help GW get a few votes? That was the real purpose of the tariffs.

You stop whining.

 

[I think not]

I'm not whining, I'm shoving the facts in your face.

You got $4 billion from the American people.

You're welcome.

 

[#juan]

Again, FYI,

We got nothing yet. As far as I know the tariffs are still piling up.

 

[I think not]

Well you will obviously get it. And if you don't all the better, I don't see how we "owe" you anything. That money should be spent on Americans.

 

[#juan]

Well you will obviously get it. And if you don't all the better, I don't see how we "owe" you anything. That money should be spent on Americans.

Let me see now. The American government signed a free trade deal with Canada. The American government also signed a North American free trade deal with Canada and Mexico. No matter, some American lumber lobbyists complain that Canadian lumber is subsidized. Two WTO panels and three NAFTA panels rule that Canadian lumber is not subsidized but the tariffs are levied regardless. Now you want to tell me that we owe you money? Complete and utter BS.