Dangerous Offender

KellyF

Nominee Member
Jun 22, 2006
54
0
6
Toronto
www.housepetition.com
Peter Whitemore's story is frightening and worrisome. Over 6 convictions relating to child sexual assault/abuse and violations of conditions relating to these convictions. But...according to our Canadian laws he will NEVER be designated a dangerous offender. Why? Because even though he has kidnapped children and raped them before...his longest sentence has only ever been 4 and a half years. You need a sentence of 10 years and your crime has to be violent before you can be considered a "dangerous offender".
Check out this case a few years ago...raped his own daughter repeatedly and posted it all over the internet...at first he was given something like 13 years...then it was reduced to 9. Why? they say because he never bound, gagged or beat his daughter as well, and because he only ever had one other conviction. The fact that that conviction was also for raping a child...no matter. 9 years is conveniently just under the time necessary to be labelled a dangerous offender.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
Catagorizing someone as a dangerous offender is a truly onerous task. The people who do it realize that it's game over for that particular criminal. He or she is probably going to spend the rest of their natural life in jail. I wouldn't want to make the decision. We, as Canadians, seem to go out of our way to ensure the criminal gets a break. Like it or not; seems to be the way it is.

But, if it walks, talks, flies, like a duck, it's probably a duck. IMHO the bar should be lowered, and more violent scum should be designated as dangerous offenders, and left to rot, watch TV, sodomize the weaker inmates, or whatever one does in prison.

Repeat violent offenders usually have the markings of a psychopath. They have no conscience, feel no remorse, have no empathy; all the things normal people are supposed to have and feel. Further, according to the FBI profilers and psychiatrists who worked to catch many serial killers in the US, they CAN'T be cured. Their brain is permanently damaged in some twisted way, and it can't be put right. They can talk a good game, and put on a good con, but, underneath they are a stinking swamp.......Ted Bundy for example.

I wonder if our lawmakers realized just how much a helluva lot of people would support more punitive measures regarding repeat violent offenders, would they then take measures to make sure they don't get out amongst us ever again.

No murders, rapes, or robberies while someone is "out on parole". What the hell would we do without all the headlines to read. Wish we could find out.

Ugg

:idea:
 

JonB2004

Council Member
Mar 10, 2006
1,188
0
36
All of these sickos should be executed. I wish Canada would consider re-instating the death penalty.
 

KellyF

Nominee Member
Jun 22, 2006
54
0
6
Toronto
www.housepetition.com
Oh my goodness! enough with the death penalty. Seriously, we need to deal with the reality of our system...the death penalty will not be brought back.
oldnugly: I agree that we need our lawmakers to pay more attention and I also think it's a tough task to take on. But...my problem is that fact that you have to be labelled "violent" to be considered a dangerous offender. the majority of child molesters are not violent. They work their way into the child's life and in to the family's life. They groom that child to trust them and to become used to being touched. They won't beat, gag or bind the child up. They slowly, intentionally and manipulativly abuse that child. And when they do this over and over again to multiple children over many years, they need to be considered a dangerous offender. they will not stop, they make the choice to abuse, and they only cry out for help when they have been caught. Begs the question...are you sorry you raped or molested the child...or are you sorry you got caught?
I long for the day when we have no headline of that sort to read!!!
 

Hotshot

Electoral Member
May 31, 2006
330
0
16
It boggles the mind that someone like Whitemore was ever permitted to walk the streets especially after only 2 offences, forgetting the rest. Castration is the only solution to perverts like this.
Oh, I guess we could drop his drawers and tie him to a post so the rest of the prisoners could have a go at him. I wonder how he would like that?
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
There have been some child molesters who wanted to be "fixed". They knew they were sick and wouldn't ever be cured. Have you ever heard of a child molester recovering? I think they should be locked away for life. I'd have no problem making that decision. But the death penalty? It's been proven it's no deterrent.
 

Hotshot

Electoral Member
May 31, 2006
330
0
16
Gonzo said:
There have been some child molesters who wanted to be "fixed". They knew they were sick and wouldn't ever be cured. Have you ever heard of a child molester recovering? I think they should be locked away for life. I'd have no problem making that decision. But the death penalty? It's been proven it's no deterrent.

Maybe the death penalty is not a deterrent, but it would stop repeat offenders. The father of a friend of mine was the third victim of a certain individual, over the period of a few years. He would be still alive if the guy was hung after the first conviction.
 

JonB2004

Council Member
Mar 10, 2006
1,188
0
36
The death penalty is the best way to solve the sicko problem. Execute them and they can never be released into the public to re-offend.
 

KellyF

Nominee Member
Jun 22, 2006
54
0
6
Toronto
www.housepetition.com
I wish there was a way to stop these repeat offenders. Our government seems so unwilling to stand up and keep them in jail indefinitely. The reuirements for dangerous offenders are so high that too many are being over-looked. Peter Whitmore should have been labeled a dangerous offender. the authorities said he had a 100% chance of reoffending, and yet this guy falls through the cracks of our system. We need to lower this bar of requirements for dangerous offenders.
Professionals also say that chemical or physical castration would not necessarily work either, as this is also a crime of power.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
It is now accepted as a given that Pedophiles cannot be "cured". Whitmore should never have been released the third time. The Judge who sentenced him to just three years is at fault, but I don't know if, under the regulations we have, that three years was the maximum. We sure seem to tie ourselves up with rules to protect the guilty. A little more thought should be given to the victims of these animals.
 

KellyF

Nominee Member
Jun 22, 2006
54
0
6
Toronto
www.housepetition.com
here here!!
The maximum is life in prison. However...it's never been handed out. Plus the requirements for dangerous offenders to be so labeled are insanely high. Repeat offenders are dangerous and should be treated as such!
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
being a pretty much free-thinking "leftie", the issue of child predators/sex offenders is a VERY sticky one.. despite my thorough respect for human life (or I suppose maybe because of it in an odd way) it is hard to really think it through properly.
My gut instinct is that such individuals maybe SHOULD be put to death, but the whole death penalty issue is kind of a non-starter for me, if there's ANY chance of killing becoming institutionalized in that way it could have massive repercussions down the road, and it's harder to undo something (politically, anyways) than it is to get it instituted in the first place, so that isn't the solution

Life in prison?? Well, I too believe that with sex offenders of this most heinous kind, there is no chance for recovery and should be no possibility of "reintroduction to society", and at the cost of somewhere like 80,000 $ a year keeping the person in jail is sorta logically flawed, too, it'd be like keeping a fridge plugged in and full of food that you're never gonna eat- just don't make good sense

Personally I think the best way would in fact be total castration (not just the boys, but the little soldier, too, don't know the proper term as it doesn't come up too often thankfully :D ) but would that not somehow fall under "cruel and unusual punishment"?? That's the only sticking point I can envision myself- would the "punishment fitting the crime" override C+UP?? Would there be some way to set the law up so that the act would become "usual" as a punishment for this most serious, unthinkable crime?? Would there be degrees of offence (I would imagine a definite "YES" but what would they be??)

This case is a tragic one and something has to be done pretty much right now, but what??
 

KellyF

Nominee Member
Jun 22, 2006
54
0
6
Toronto
www.housepetition.com
Hey Madubon. I agree about the death penalty, it's not actually going to happen and it does tend to lead down a very dangerous road. Not to mention the fact that I do not trust our government to make the decisions and keep society safe...so why would I trust them to take someone's life?
The castration issue is heavely debated. Some feel it's the only way to curtail someone's sexual desires, others feel it would make no difference as this is also a crime of power and control.
The question does seem to come down to cruel and unusual punishment Section 12 of the Charter, and also to "principals of fundalemtal justice" Section 7, which deals with proportionate punishment. What I find upsetting and sad is the fact that these Sections of the Charter only come up in defence of the offender. Raping a three year old child is pretty cruel if you ask me. My petition that asks for 18 months for the fist conviction of a child sexual offender will, according to some professionals, not stand up to the charter as the punishment is not proportionate to the crime. I take issue with the fact that this section is only used by defence attorneys to make sure that the pedophile doesn't receive too much of a sentence, instead of being used to ensure that the pedophile receives enough of a sentence. Our Charter does not appear to be there for the victims...only the offenders. If we have the right to "Security of Person" which by governmental standards includes your physical and emptional wellbeing, why isn't the person who deprives you of that punished...appropriately?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
One of the problems with the death penalty is that there is a chance of hanging an innocent person. Castration is not exactly reversible either. We just have to be sure we have the right person.
 

KellyF

Nominee Member
Jun 22, 2006
54
0
6
Toronto
www.housepetition.com
Very true! It's a slippery slope. That is why harsher punishments is the best way to go. Dangerous offenders can be incarcerated indefinitely. Like Peter Whitmore...with 6 other convictions related to child sexual abuse and violations of parole due to such convictions and with a 100% chance of reoffending...perfect applicant for a dangerous offender.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
I seems that the rcmp told Whitmore in writing that they would recommend to the Crown, that they not seek a Dangerous Offender status if he gave him self up peacefully. I find it disturbing that they would make this sort of offer to him. I Iike the response from the Sask. Crown attorney though. Quoted from the star.com "Saskatchewan's attorney general, Frank Quennell, said the RCMP can't dictate what prosecutors do." Hopefully they give him no leniency and lock him up for life.

Star.com Link
 

KellyF

Nominee Member
Jun 22, 2006
54
0
6
Toronto
www.housepetition.com
It breaks my heart. I can't think about what these boys went through.
And for 13 years this man has raped children over and over all over our country and for 13 years he has been released to do it again. Our government and our country has failed every citizen by allowing this man to blackmail his way into a deal and out of a just and necessary sentence...DANGEROUS OFFENDER.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home
 

KellyF

Nominee Member
Jun 22, 2006
54
0
6
Toronto
www.housepetition.com
I find it interesting that our government and Mr. Toews keeps saying that they are going to toughen Dangerous Offender legislation, but they will not say how. They say they committed to protecting our children, but we have yet to see this. I for one am extremely curious to see how they are going to amend the legislation. The main change better be to lower the bar of requirements or else anything you change will not capture more dangerous offenders.