Clever Clogs
Posts: 647 
August 1st, 2006, 06:15 AM
The conservatives have also slipped in the polls. My impression is that their continued support is due to the fact there is no liberal leader. Once there is a defined opposition I cannot see Harper surviving. Canada is moving in a scary direction that is not in the best interests of the population as a whole.
I forgot to put in the link.
The conservatives have also slipped in the polls. My impression is that their continued support is due to the fact there is no liberal leader. Once there is a defined opposition I cannot see Harper surviving. Canada is moving in a scary direction that is not in the best interests of the population as a whole.
Quote:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...OLL01/TPStory/
OTTAWA — Stephen Harper's decision to support Israel in the current Middle East crisis appears out of step with the majority of Canadians, according to a new poll.
The survey finds that a majority of Canadians want their government to be neutral on the conflict and that Mr. Harper has tilted away from the traditional Canadian position. Moreover, they believe that the Conservative government is taking its cues from U.S. President George W. Bush.
The Globe and Mail/CTV poll also shows that Canadians are paying close attention to the conflict, and that Quebeckers are particularly concerned about the shift.
“What you're struck by is how unpopular the position he has taken is, especially in the province of Quebec,” said Allan Gregg, chairman of the Strategic Counsel, the firm that conducted the poll.
The survey finds that a majority of Canadians want their government to be neutral on the conflict and that Mr. Harper has tilted away from the traditional Canadian position. Moreover, they believe that the Conservative government is taking its cues from U.S. President George W. Bush.
The Globe and Mail/CTV poll also shows that Canadians are paying close attention to the conflict, and that Quebeckers are particularly concerned about the shift.
“What you're struck by is how unpopular the position he has taken is, especially in the province of Quebec,” said Allan Gregg, chairman of the Strategic Counsel, the firm that conducted the poll.
I forgot to put in the link.
House Member
Posts: 3,167
August 1st, 2006, 06:25 AM
Quebec didn't support our involvement in WWII either. Strange, given France had been invaded and occupied. I'm not even sure if Quebecers would fight an invading American force given the province's pacifist principles. It's likely their kids would have to be in internment camps for a year before they'd acknowledge there was a problem.
Quebec didn't support our involvement in WWII either. Strange, given France had been invaded and occupied. I'm not even sure if Quebecers would fight an invading American force given the province's pacifist principles. It's likely their kids would have to be in internment camps for a year before they'd acknowledge there was a problem.
what green dots?
Posts: 3,157
August 1st, 2006, 08:22 AM
I can't help thinking the best thing for him to do at this point is look himself in the mirror every morning and chant "I will NOT have a hissy fit in public. I will NOT have a hissy fit in public..."
We'll see how well the glue holds in the CONservative machine now that the cage is finally being rattled.
I can't help thinking the best thing for him to do at this point is look himself in the mirror every morning and chant "I will NOT have a hissy fit in public. I will NOT have a hissy fit in public..."
We'll see how well the glue holds in the CONservative machine now that the cage is finally being rattled.
Council Member
Posts: 1,202 
Location: Montreal
Location: Montreal
August 1st, 2006, 08:42 AM
Quoting
You just can't compare the Quebec of the 1940s to the Quebec of today. It just isn't honest and objective. The collective psyche of Quebec has changed extensively since then. It's gone a pretty long way since "La Révolution Tranquille" and the subsequent rise of nationalism. Your comment clearly betrays your naive and negative bias towards Quebecers.
Quebec didn't support our involvement in WWII either. Strange, given France had been invaded and occupied. I'm not even sure if Quebecers would fight an invading American force given the province's pacifist principles. It's likely their kids would have to be in internment camps for a year before they'd acknowledge there was a problem.
Stuck in Ontario...bah
Posts: 706
Location: Petawawa Ontario
Location: Petawawa Ontario
August 1st, 2006, 10:19 AM
Polls are usally nothing to take seriously, How many of you guys on this forum got asked where you stand on this issue.....None of you....Polls hardley refelct the real feeling of the Magority of Canadians, although I am sure if evryone was polled in Canada there would still be a slight lead with the non-harper supporters. but not such a large one
Polls are usally nothing to take seriously, How many of you guys on this forum got asked where you stand on this issue.....None of you....Polls hardley refelct the real feeling of the Magority of Canadians, although I am sure if evryone was polled in Canada there would still be a slight lead with the non-harper supporters. but not such a large one
Bright Spark
Posts: 313
August 1st, 2006, 11:02 AM
What position would more than 32% of Canadians support? Would another position or part have 25%? 30%? These types of polls don't have a lot of meaning unless up against a clear alternative. Canada is a diverse country and other than motherhood issues the days of 'one Canada' are long gone.
What position would more than 32% of Canadians support? Would another position or part have 25%? 30%? These types of polls don't have a lot of meaning unless up against a clear alternative. Canada is a diverse country and other than motherhood issues the days of 'one Canada' are long gone.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
August 1st, 2006, 11:54 AM
In sum Harper is catering to far right interests while playing patronage politics with the Chinese and Lebanese communities. Except for the latter which is counterproductive I fail to see how Canada's diversity fits into Harper's game plan.
If you don't believe in polls there is not much one can say. Most political experts do believe in them and if the conservatives are not concerned then they are really out to lunch.
In sum Harper is catering to far right interests while playing patronage politics with the Chinese and Lebanese communities. Except for the latter which is counterproductive I fail to see how Canada's diversity fits into Harper's game plan.
If you don't believe in polls there is not much one can say. Most political experts do believe in them and if the conservatives are not concerned then they are really out to lunch.
Executive Member
Posts: 9,534
August 1st, 2006, 12:06 PM
Like any poll,
so much depends on the size of the sample and was that sample a reasonable cross section of Canadians? The type and number of questions asked is also important. Not knowing any of that, I have to say, "I'll wait for further developments".
Like any poll,
so much depends on the size of the sample and was that sample a reasonable cross section of Canadians? The type and number of questions asked is also important. Not knowing any of that, I have to say, "I'll wait for further developments".
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
August 1st, 2006, 12:59 PM
I put in the link above to the G&M piece. I apologize as i forgot to put it in earlier
The poll itself was conducted by the Strategic Council which is very reputable in Canada. I reall them either reporting the gains in conservative popularity or working for the conservatives directly.
Usually the checks are other polls by the politcial parties themselves or some statement by the party questioning the results.
Anyway there should be enough evidence now for the doubters to state what they see as the problems with the poll.
I put in the link above to the G&M piece. I apologize as i forgot to put it in earlier
The poll itself was conducted by the Strategic Council which is very reputable in Canada. I reall them either reporting the gains in conservative popularity or working for the conservatives directly.
Usually the checks are other polls by the politcial parties themselves or some statement by the party questioning the results.
Anyway there should be enough evidence now for the doubters to state what they see as the problems with the poll.
Executive Member
Posts: 9,534
August 1st, 2006, 02:06 PM
Quote:
No problem. The polll seems straight forward and is likely an indication that Harper should star paying attention to Canadian opinions. The results are subtle in a way because one of the things that kept Harper out of office or out of a majority was the feeling that he would just follow Bush around like a dog. Be interesting to see how harper handles this. He might just ignore it.
I forgot to put in the link.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,588
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
August 1st, 2006, 02:22 PM
I don't know why everyone loves to go on about Harper following Bush aroud, it is crap, just a meaningless smear..........has it ever occured to you guys that maybe two men could agree on something independent of each other? I hardly think Harper called Bush and asked what he should say.
Criticism of Harper's ME stand is valid and reasonable, accusing him of being Bush's lap dog is just vicious and unreasonable.
Quoting
I was so damn tired of "finger in the breeze" leadership.........It is good to see someone lead from the front......but yes, it will probably cost him.Quote:
No problem. The polll seems straight forward and is likely an indication that Harper should star paying attention to Canadian opinions. The results are subtle in a way because one of the things that kept Harper out of office or out of a majority was the feeling that he would just follow Bush around like a dog. Be interesting to see how harper handles this. He might just ignore it.
I forgot to put in the link.
I don't know why everyone loves to go on about Harper following Bush aroud, it is crap, just a meaningless smear..........has it ever occured to you guys that maybe two men could agree on something independent of each other? I hardly think Harper called Bush and asked what he should say.
Criticism of Harper's ME stand is valid and reasonable, accusing him of being Bush's lap dog is just vicious and unreasonable.
Executive Member
Posts: 9,534
August 1st, 2006, 02:36 PM
I've never been accused of being viscious before, but I have to say that Mulroney could never get his nose in quick enough or far enough with old Ronny Raygun. I see at least some similarities between Reagan and Mulroney and Harper and Bush. If that makes you uncomfortable so be it. I would like to see a leader that put Canada and Canadians first.
I've never been accused of being viscious before, but I have to say that Mulroney could never get his nose in quick enough or far enough with old Ronny Raygun. I see at least some similarities between Reagan and Mulroney and Harper and Bush. If that makes you uncomfortable so be it. I would like to see a leader that put Canada and Canadians first.
just special
Posts: 1,226
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Location: not in Kansas anymore
August 1st, 2006, 02:37 PM
I really have my doubts about the strategic council being unbiased.I have seen a few of thier experts on Question period. Having said that I applaud Harper for standing up for what is right instead of what is popular.That is the mark of a real leader.
I really have my doubts about the strategic council being unbiased.I have seen a few of thier experts on Question period. Having said that I applaud Harper for standing up for what is right instead of what is popular.That is the mark of a real leader.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,188
August 1st, 2006, 02:58 PM
I agree, Colpy. Harper is his own independent person and doesn't ask Bush what to do.
As for Harper's position on the Middle East conflict, I'm one of the people in that 32% that supports Harper's position.
Quoting
I don't know why everyone loves to go on about Harper following Bush aroud, it is crap, just a meaningless smear..........has it ever occured to you guys that maybe two men could agree on something independent of each other? I hardly think Harper called Bush and asked what he should say.
Criticism of Harper's ME stand is valid and reasonable, accusing him of being Bush's lap dog is just vicious and unreasonable.
Quoting
I was so damn tired of "finger in the breeze" leadership.........It is good to see someone lead from the front......but yes, it will probably cost him.Quote:
No problem. The polll seems straight forward and is likely an indication that Harper should star paying attention to Canadian opinions. The results are subtle in a way because one of the things that kept Harper out of office or out of a majority was the feeling that he would just follow Bush around like a dog. Be interesting to see how harper handles this. He might just ignore it.
I forgot to put in the link.
I don't know why everyone loves to go on about Harper following Bush aroud, it is crap, just a meaningless smear..........has it ever occured to you guys that maybe two men could agree on something independent of each other? I hardly think Harper called Bush and asked what he should say.
Criticism of Harper's ME stand is valid and reasonable, accusing him of being Bush's lap dog is just vicious and unreasonable.
I agree, Colpy. Harper is his own independent person and doesn't ask Bush what to do.
As for Harper's position on the Middle East conflict, I'm one of the people in that 32% that supports Harper's position.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 526
Location: Pointy Rocks
Location: Pointy Rocks
August 1st, 2006, 03:26 PM
When The american ambassador said that the US doesn't recognize Canada's ownership of the Nortwest Passage. Harper stated that canada not the USA will set our policies. I believe that he means it. I don't care if harper has some similarities to GWB, it's of no concern. Canada is Canada and will set our own policies with any competent leadership. The Liberal never lead but revelled in uselessly bashing the US.
When The american ambassador said that the US doesn't recognize Canada's ownership of the Nortwest Passage. Harper stated that canada not the USA will set our policies. I believe that he means it. I don't care if harper has some similarities to GWB, it's of no concern. Canada is Canada and will set our own policies with any competent leadership. The Liberal never lead but revelled in uselessly bashing the US.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
August 1st, 2006, 04:24 PM
Harper needs to worry that the Lebanon war does not escalate. There are 35,000 Canadians still in south Lebanon and if more of them are killed then this will get very complicated for Harper. He will either have to retract his support for Israel or become a Prime Minister that supports the mass killing of his own citizens. I think that some Canadians have rationalized this complication by claiming that the Canadians in Lebanon should have their citizenship removed. This is stupidity. They are Canadians and the vast majority of them became Canadians under the Mulroney government.
The war is not good for Israel either. Hezbollah has to be defused and disarmed. But the level of anti-Israel sentiment that is being created in the Middle East and abroad with this indiscriminate bombing will have long term consequences for Israel.
This poll points to a desire for a centering trend in Canada. Canada doesn’t need liberal or conservative extremists. My prediction is that Michael Ignatieff will be the next PM and that he will lead a majority liberal government that has been sanitized of the old dysfunctions. Harper of course could still recover if he moves to the center.
Harper needs to worry that the Lebanon war does not escalate. There are 35,000 Canadians still in south Lebanon and if more of them are killed then this will get very complicated for Harper. He will either have to retract his support for Israel or become a Prime Minister that supports the mass killing of his own citizens. I think that some Canadians have rationalized this complication by claiming that the Canadians in Lebanon should have their citizenship removed. This is stupidity. They are Canadians and the vast majority of them became Canadians under the Mulroney government.
The war is not good for Israel either. Hezbollah has to be defused and disarmed. But the level of anti-Israel sentiment that is being created in the Middle East and abroad with this indiscriminate bombing will have long term consequences for Israel.
This poll points to a desire for a centering trend in Canada. Canada doesn’t need liberal or conservative extremists. My prediction is that Michael Ignatieff will be the next PM and that he will lead a majority liberal government that has been sanitized of the old dysfunctions. Harper of course could still recover if he moves to the center.
what green dots?
Posts: 3,157
August 1st, 2006, 04:29 PM
Quoting
So if our leadership is so independant and competent why did they waste so much time and effort in committee today trying to get W's new buzzword "substainable" into the motion calling for a ceasefire?
...Canada is Canada and will set our own policies with any competent leadership...
