Canadian killed at UN post in Lebanon

[elevennevele]

Again this should make one ask, “how precise are Israelis bombings”?

Harper campaigned on the slogan, “Standing Up For Canada”. I simply don’t get the sense of that right now.

We obviously need a stronger leader who will speak up for Canada and not be so ‘passive’ in letting other countries kill off our people. You would think our PM would have harsh words towards a country that kept blowing up, mistake or otherwise, our Canadians. To witness some public criticism — at least. Even the previous government showed criticism towards our friends down south when they killed off our soldiers by a negligent pilot.

I have to shake my head at Harper’s very passive response in dealing with another country who continually kills off our people. One who campaigned on the slogan, “Standing Up For Canada”.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060726.wmideast26/BNStory/International/home

JERUSALEM — A Canadian was among four United Nations peacekeepers killed Tuesday in southern Lebanon when an Israeli air strike reduced a UN observer post to rubble, sparking condemnation and a full investigation.

“I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces,” UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan said from Rome, where Wednesday he will attend a meeting of diplomats trying to end the fighting.

“This co-ordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long-established and clearly marked UN post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared Israeli fire.”

Israel expressed regret for the bombing and promised a full investigation, but denied it was targeting the UN.

“I am shocked and deeply distressed by the hasty statement of the Secretary-General,” Israel's ambassador to the UN, Dan Gillerman, said, calling Mr. Annan's words “premature and erroneous.”

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Wednesday expressed "deep regret" over the killings and said the peacekeepers were killed mistakenly. He spoke on the phone with Mr. Annan, expressing dismay over Annan's accusation and promising a thorough investigation, according to Mr. Olmert's office.

Canadian officials would not comment last night or identify the dead Canadian, who is believed to have been a member of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry — the same regiment that makes up the bulk of the force fighting in Afghanistan, where 20 Canadians have died. The other dead UN peacekeepers are from China, Finland and Austria.

 

[elevennevele]

This is a joke right?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060726.wmideast26/BNStory/International/home

"We are deeply shocked by this incident and strongly condemn it," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said in the statement.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has drawn criticism for his support of Israel's actions during the now-15-day-old conflict with Lebanon and for calling the Israeli response to the capture of two soldiers and continued Hezbollah rocket attacks “measured.” The Prime Minister's office refused to comment last night.

 

[#juan]

elevennevele

Hey, they said they were sorry..... :roll:

 

[mabudon]

RE: Canadian killed at UN

I am totally furious at ol Harper and his "strenghtening" of our country, he better quite while he's only really far behind

Seriously, I mentioned this in another thread which was bypassed by namecalling, and didn't provide a link, so thanks for making a new topic for this...

I won't be surprised when asking the question you posed (and is pretty sharp in my mind right now too, the "surgical precision" thing, cos if it's the case that Israels attacks are so accurate then this was DELIBERATE and the timing in concert with Condi's recent visit is odd as well) gets you labelled as an Islamist, but I AM kinda eager to hear what the more frothing-at-the-mouth name-callers have to say when they weigh in on this one

simply put- either the Israeli attacks are largely random and a super-criminal form of collective punishment, OR they basically committed an ACT OF WAR against all nations of the UN (which, if this had happened to Israel would almost certainlybe the framing-job put on this mess) and have now showed their true face... either way it renders the opinion of the "right to defend" people look kinda "quaint"

 

[Colpy]

Explain to me please, why the Israelis would shoot themselves in the foot by deliberately giving their opponents a jewel of an issue for propaganda purposes, while getting the Israelis absolutely no tactical advantage?

Do you think the Israelis are complete idiots as well as inherently evil?

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canadian killed at UN post in Lebanon

Explain to me please, why the Israelis would shoot themselves in the foot by deliberately giving their opponents a jewel of an issue for propaganda purposes, while getting the Israelis absolutely no tactical advantage?

Do you think the Israelis are complete idiots as well as inherently evil?

All these current tactics already seem idiotic. Also CTV news said the Israelis were given warning that they were UN observers.

...

I would like to add this as an ‘edit’ since Jo Canadian contributed more info to my statement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm

UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.

The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling, diplomats familiar with the probe say.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: Canadian killed at UN post in Lebanon

Do you think the Israelis are complete idiots as well as inherently evil?

No one said anything about Inherently Evil. Both sides are showing their dark side in this conflict, as well as the stupid. Such is War I guess, everyone gets focused on the bloodlust and never step back to think...as in this case as more details become oncovered:

Israel troops 'ignored' UN plea -BBC

 

[Karlin]

Yes, this is surely the time and place for PM HARPER to step up and say something, and it would be nice if it isn't a repeat of "go Israel" like when he said the bombing campaign "was a balanced responce" or close to that... on in other words - "what George said".

The entire world agrees that Israel's bombing of Lebanon is over-doing it, and tostop it because the majority of deaths are Lebanese civilians.

The other problem is that the Israels larger objective of pushing back Hezbolla from Israel's Lebanon borders, and making Israel safe, finally. It won't work, so the result of this military operation by Israel will just be a lot of civilian deaths and a while lot more revenge growth - the anger of the Arabs for all those civilan deaths ["they killed my mother brother sister and father"] - will mean more Arab attacks on Israel in coming months.

Revenge growth is the age-old enemy of Arabs and Jews alike - in that, those two peoples are alike. They are alike in many ways... of all the peoples of the world, they are more like each other than anyone else. hmmmmm.


The worst is that America will use the Iranian involvement as an excuse to invade Iran, and thats the threat to Islam that will start a much broader round of violence. Who knows where that will lead? Remember - a global war would cause global warming to accellerate significantly.... its time to stop the fighting or life won't be right on earth for a long time again.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

It's nice that everyone agrees that nothing can be done, Israel can't be made safe and that it's stupid to try. What are the UN forces there doing? Schmoozing with hezbollah. If the UN had occupied the border or the Lebanese Army none of the hostilities wouldn't have started. They are in a war zone. It's WAR. Either be peace makers and peacekeepers or go home.

 

[Vicious]

elevennevele

Hey, they said they were sorry..... :roll:

This is the real difference between the Israeli's and Hezbollah, Hamas and other Arab nations. The Isreali's realize and admit that they made a mistake with this action. They are quick to apologize and take responsibility for their actions. In the cases where hezbollah and Hamas has taken civilian life they do what? Dance in the streets, claim that every Israeli is a legitimate target.

 

[earth_as_one]

Re: RE: Canadian killed at UN post in Lebanon

UN observers asked Israel to stop bombing 10 times before post was hit

>>>

UN observers begged Israelis to stop shelling their position

>>>

Olmert denies bombing of UN post was deliberate

The conclusion of our Prime Minister?

UN bombing not deliberate, Harper says

CANADA'S Prime Minister Stephen Harper said today an Israeli attack on a UN outpost that killed four, including a Canadian, was a "terrible tragedy" but not likely deliberate.

At the same time, he questioned why the UN had manned the outpost in Lebanon near the Israeli border as bombs exploded all around...

The UN, not Israel, is responsible for these UN observer deaths.

Regarding:

Explain to me please, why the Israelis would shoot themselves in the foot by deliberately giving their opponents a jewel of an issue for propaganda purposes, while getting the Israelis absolutely no tactical advantage?

Do you think the Israelis are complete idiots as well as inherently evil?

No, the Israeli military is inherently ruthless. For decades they have been getting away with war crimes and crimes against humanity and this incident is just another crime they will get away with.

The UN outpost was in the way of the Israeli military, so they took it out. It wasn't personal, it was business. Innocent people die in wars and the Israeli military has been killing innocent people fir decades.

By the way, this is not the first time the Israeli military has killed UN observers, and it won't be the last. This example is one of the more infamous:

Qana-South Lebanon: the place where the Israeli shells killed 102 people, mostly women and children, taking refuge in a United Nations headquarters on April 18, 1996.

Nothing happened to Israel then and nothing will happen now..

Most people, like yourself for example, will never criticize Israel for any crime it commits. The news will move on to other things and most of the world will soon forget about this crime as they have forgotten about the thousands of other crimes committed by Israel.

If people start questioning why Israel has the right to commit war crimes, the answer is simple. Its because of the Holocaust. What atrocities Israel commits are unimportant. Only Jew hating, terrorist supports would dare criticize Israel for its crimes against humanity. You, Freethinker and others have made that point here many times.

 

[Hotshot]

elevennevele

Hey, they said they were sorry..... :roll:

This is the real difference between the Israeli's and Hezbollah, Hamas and other Arab nations. The Isreali's realize and admit that they made a mistake with this action. They are quick to apologize and take responsibility for their actions. In the cases where hezbollah and Hamas has taken civilian life they do what? Dance in the streets, claim that every Israeli is a legitimate target.

There was more than just one shell hit the UN post and the Israelis were warned. Yet they continued. Deliberate? You bet! Sorry? No, that was just lip service because of all the heat they drew. Have the Israelis apologized for all the civilians dead because of their bombings? I haven't heard it.

They were right with the initial strikes against the Hezbollah, but they have taken their actions way too far. Something like the Yankees, come to think of it.

 

[earth_as_one]

elevennevele

Hey, they said they were sorry..... :roll:

This is the real difference between the Israeli's and Hezbollah, Hamas and other Arab nations. The Isreali's realize and admit that they made a mistake with this action. They are quick to apologize and take responsibility for their actions. In the cases where hezbollah and Hamas has taken civilian life they do what? Dance in the streets, claim that every Israeli is a legitimate target.

Israel hasn't yet apologized for escalating this conflict from a minor border skirmish involving soldiers to an all out civilian kill fest.

Who Started It?

Chronology of the Latest Crisis in the Middle East ...

July 9

The Palestinian death toll due to Israel’s Gaza offensive surpasses 50.

July 12

Responding to the mounting carnage in Gaza, and the Israeli seizure of much of the Palestinian government leadership, the Lebanese Hezbollah militia engages in border skirmishes with Israeli troops. In the ensuing battle, Hezbollah forces kill 3 Israeli soldiers and capture two. With Israeli forces in hot pursuit into Lebanon, another 5 Israeli soldiers die. Hezbollah casualties were not immediately announced.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert responds by saying, “Lebanon is responsible and Lebanon will bear the consequences of its actions.”

Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Siniora calls for an urgent meeting of the U.N. Security Council, appealing for help in preventing the impending Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

July 13

Israel responds with military assaults from the air, land, and sea into southern Lebanon. Its combat operations in southern Lebanon are the first since withdrawing in 2000. Israel launches a aerial bombardment of Beirut International Airport, the surrounding southern suburbs where Hezbollah operates, and the main highway connecting Beirut with Damascus.

Residents of Beirut stream out of the city desperately seeking refuge in the mountains or towards Syria. With the Israeli naval blockade and the country’s only international airport inoperable, nearly all normal means out of the country are blocked.

(Note - at this point Hezbollah hadn't fired rockets on Israel yet. What Hezbollah did next was a response to Israel's escalation of the conflict to target civilians)

Hezbollah fires scores of Katyusha rockets into Israel, most falling around the beach town of Nahariya...

Hezbollah was still observing this past unwritten agreement:

To end the fighting in July 1993, the United States brokered an unwritten agreement between Israel and Hizballah, the July 1993 "understandings." The agreement supposedly prohibited attacks on civilians, but both sides understood the agreement to mean that if one side broke the rules, the other side could do so as well. As a result, between July 1993 and April 1996, both sides have accepted civilian casualties whenever their side had attacked civilians first.

The Lebanese war that started 1975

Since Israel started killing Lebanese civilians, Israel had to know that Hezbollah would respond in kind.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

Israel survives based on military superiority, and treating agressive actions with overwhelming force.

It's not about 2 soldiers... it's about 58 years of neighbourly agression.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

When was the last time you heard anything about Checnya and the 200,000 dead?
This is anti-Israeli bias, nothing more.

 

[fuflans]

M Gen (ret) Lewis McKenzie in this radio interview (around 3:40) claims that he received an email from the Canadian soldier who was killed in Lebanon. He states that the outpost was being used by Hezbollah members as a shield from attack.

http://www.cbc.ca/metromorning/media/20060726LMCJUL26.ram

RIP Maj Hess-von Kruedener

 

[Vicious]

elevennevele

Hey, they said they were sorry..... :roll:

This is the real difference between the Israeli's and Hezbollah, Hamas and other Arab nations. The Isreali's realize and admit that they made a mistake with this action. They are quick to apologize and take responsibility for their actions. In the cases where hezbollah and Hamas has taken civilian life they do what? Dance in the streets, claim that every Israeli is a legitimate target.

There was more than just one shell hit the UN post and the Israelis were warned. Yet they continued. Deliberate? You bet! Sorry? No, that was just lip service because of all the heat they drew. Have the Israelis apologized for all the civilians dead because of their bombings? I haven't heard it.

They were right with the initial strikes against the Hezbollah, but they have taken their actions way too far. Something like the Yankees, come to think of it.

Israeli has also made it abundantly clear that this action continues until Hezbollah is removed from southern Lebanon.

They should not stop until Hezbollah is out of Lebanon, anything short of that will just see the same action again next year.

My point stills stands. They did not and do not celebrate the deaths of civilians or UN troops for that matter. They do what they feel they must do and attempt to minimize the civilian casualties. The same cannot be said about the other side.

 

[Hotshot]

[quote="Vicious
Israeli has also made it abundantly clear that this action continues until Hezbollah is removed from southern Lebanon.

They should not stop until Hezbollah is out of Lebanon, anything short of that will just see the same action again next year.

My point stills stands. They did not and do not celebrate the deaths of civilians or UN troops for that matter. They do what they feel they must do and attempt to minimize the civilian casualties. The same cannot be said about the other side.[/quote]

First, Hezbollah will never be removed by the Lebanon government, and expecting Israel to eliminate them is the same as expecting the yankees to eliminate al quida (sorry, spelling??? lol) I haven't seen any news footage of the Hezbollah celebrating in the streets.

Hey I agree that Israel has suffered pleanty over the years from terrorist attacks, but they have gone too far. I am sure you will have to agree with that.

 

[humanbeing]

RE: Canadian killed at UN

“how precise are Israelis bombings”?

Who knows. We need a military expert to brief us on the weaponry used and other factors.

It could be that a hit on an ambulance, or a hospital, or a UN base is a precise hit for them, and an intentional target. I cannot put it beyond any military (especially the US or Israeli). I don't know... maybe they've tried to hit a hospital before but missed, so maybe they aren't precise. Maybe they hit the things pretty much all the time when they try...

Something I often see in the corporate media in North America, is the word 'shells' used to describe Israel's attacks when they hit the wrong target.

As opposed to 'missiles' or 'rockets' for Hezbollah, or for Israel when they hit an actual enemy unit.

Shells don't sound like they are so easily aimed and controllable. So when a shell hits a UN base or a hospital, it may perhaps be more easily passed off as accidental.

Rockets on the other hand, sound more accurately and intentionally aimed...

 

[BitWhys]

"I agree with (UN Secretary General) Kofi Annan's comment that it seemed to be an intentional hit. It would have to be. The outposts are so well-identified with blue and white paint and flags. A pilot cannot mistake that outpost for anything else."

- Harry Bloom, eastern vice-president of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry Association
8O