Electoral Member
Posts: 705 
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
July 20th, 2006, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Slow boats
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Cana...93668-sun.html
PM and one ship evacuate Canucks, thousands left waiting
By KATHLEEN HARRIS, SUN OTTAWA BUREAU
Canadians wave the Maple Leaf while waiting to be evacuated from the port at Beirut yesterday by one of seven passenger ships chartered by Canada. Right, PM Stephen Harper leaves Paris yesterday on a Canadian Forces Airbus he diverted to Cyprus to pick up evacuated Canucks. (AP)
OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Stephen Harper rerouted his plane from Paris yesterday to pick up 120 evacuees, but critics said the move was little more than a photo-op as thousands more Canadians were left stranded and panic-stricken in the Lebanese war zone.
Liberal MP Dan McTeague said any assistance will be welcomed by desperate Canadians fleeing the war zone, but he slammed the Conservatives for spinning in damage control that could have been mitigated if the government had acted with earlier urgency.
"It's a token gesture, more of the politics of desperation than it is a genuine attempt to appreciate the dimensions of what has happened here," he said.
McTeague said Harper is merely playing "catch-up" after a barrage of stinging criticism over his government's sluggish response.
NDP MP Alexa McDonough said Parliament must carry out a thorough review of the failed response to evaluate what went wrong. She criticized Harper for failing to demand safe passage through a ceasefire, but called his plane's detour "entirely appropriate."
"I think it's more than symbolism - I don't disagree with the decision," McDonough said. "But photo-ops cannot be a substitute for the kind of leadership that's needed."
Hani Fanous, an Ottawa resident whose wife and two girls are trapped in Beirut, said stranded Canadians will take little comfort in the PM's side trip.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Cana...93668-sun.html
PM and one ship evacuate Canucks, thousands left waiting
By KATHLEEN HARRIS, SUN OTTAWA BUREAU
Canadians wave the Maple Leaf while waiting to be evacuated from the port at Beirut yesterday by one of seven passenger ships chartered by Canada. Right, PM Stephen Harper leaves Paris yesterday on a Canadian Forces Airbus he diverted to Cyprus to pick up evacuated Canucks. (AP)
OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Stephen Harper rerouted his plane from Paris yesterday to pick up 120 evacuees, but critics said the move was little more than a photo-op as thousands more Canadians were left stranded and panic-stricken in the Lebanese war zone.
Liberal MP Dan McTeague said any assistance will be welcomed by desperate Canadians fleeing the war zone, but he slammed the Conservatives for spinning in damage control that could have been mitigated if the government had acted with earlier urgency.
"It's a token gesture, more of the politics of desperation than it is a genuine attempt to appreciate the dimensions of what has happened here," he said.
McTeague said Harper is merely playing "catch-up" after a barrage of stinging criticism over his government's sluggish response.
NDP MP Alexa McDonough said Parliament must carry out a thorough review of the failed response to evaluate what went wrong. She criticized Harper for failing to demand safe passage through a ceasefire, but called his plane's detour "entirely appropriate."
"I think it's more than symbolism - I don't disagree with the decision," McDonough said. "But photo-ops cannot be a substitute for the kind of leadership that's needed."
Hani Fanous, an Ottawa resident whose wife and two girls are trapped in Beirut, said stranded Canadians will take little comfort in the PM's side trip.
Electoral Member
Posts: 705
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
July 20th, 2006, 09:16 AM
We were the slowest to respond. The French, the British, the Germans, the Americans all got there before us, and we have the largest amount of people in Lebanon to evacuate. And we are still leaving our people stranded and with very limited support from our government. We are even failing tremendously in even helping them while they wait to leave.
Was Harper so ready in the beginning to support Israeli retaliation in conjunction with US policy that he didn’t even consider there being Lebanese Canadians?
A crisis is a real test of a leader. I can appreciate that he swung his plan around to pick up some of the people and I’m sure it was suppose to be a good photo opportunity for him, but in scope of the situation, that isn’t what was really needed.
In fact, no one really had the time to really greet him in Cyprus. People were too busy helping in the situation. So he ended up just sleeping on the plane over night.
Perhaps aside from the gesture, the Lebanese Canadians would have been better served if our Prime Minister got back to Canada, and started delegating because his people are running around in a mess over here in Canada. They appear very poor coordinated and indecisive in dealing with this crisis and there ‘boss’ isn’t around. Maybe he should be busy in Canada as a our leader administering rather than sleeping on a plane waiting for his great gesture to be captured on camera as he hides from the national media.
Now that we are aware of what is really going on, we are still fumbling. We are disorganized, the resources are not being worked out to help these people leave, the resources are not being worked out to accommodate them before they leave, the resources are not there to inform them properly what can be done or what can they do or where they can go.
We were the slowest to respond. The French, the British, the Germans, the Americans all got there before us, and we have the largest amount of people in Lebanon to evacuate. And we are still leaving our people stranded and with very limited support from our government. We are even failing tremendously in even helping them while they wait to leave.
Was Harper so ready in the beginning to support Israeli retaliation in conjunction with US policy that he didn’t even consider there being Lebanese Canadians?
A crisis is a real test of a leader. I can appreciate that he swung his plan around to pick up some of the people and I’m sure it was suppose to be a good photo opportunity for him, but in scope of the situation, that isn’t what was really needed.
In fact, no one really had the time to really greet him in Cyprus. People were too busy helping in the situation. So he ended up just sleeping on the plane over night.
Perhaps aside from the gesture, the Lebanese Canadians would have been better served if our Prime Minister got back to Canada, and started delegating because his people are running around in a mess over here in Canada. They appear very poor coordinated and indecisive in dealing with this crisis and there ‘boss’ isn’t around. Maybe he should be busy in Canada as a our leader administering rather than sleeping on a plane waiting for his great gesture to be captured on camera as he hides from the national media.
Now that we are aware of what is really going on, we are still fumbling. We are disorganized, the resources are not being worked out to help these people leave, the resources are not being worked out to accommodate them before they leave, the resources are not there to inform them properly what can be done or what can they do or where they can go.
Clean my windows Socrates
Posts: 4,799 
Videos: 1
Videos: 1
July 20th, 2006, 09:56 AM
Quit comparing Canada to France, Germany, Brtiain etc. Here is a quote from the Globe which should explain why we cannot move our people out in the sammer manner as those countries.
Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
"Canada is accustomed to arranging evacuations by air. Water was another matter. Unlike countries such as Britain and the United States, Canada had no military vessels in the region. And that meant private ships would have to be leased from places such as Cyprus at a time when many other countries were trying to do the same thing."
Quit comparing Canada to France, Germany, Brtiain etc. Here is a quote from the Globe which should explain why we cannot move our people out in the sammer manner as those countries.
Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
"Canada is accustomed to arranging evacuations by air. Water was another matter. Unlike countries such as Britain and the United States, Canada had no military vessels in the region. And that meant private ships would have to be leased from places such as Cyprus at a time when many other countries were trying to do the same thing."
Member
Posts: 194
July 20th, 2006, 09:58 AM
.
Quote:
Well I guess it's a good thing then we finally have a government in office that recognizes the need for military transport aircraft and bought them, despite all the "harping" the very same critics of this evacuation did about that at the time.
We were the slowest to respond. The French, the British, the Germans, the Americans all got there before us, and we have the largest amount of people in Lebanon to evacuate. And we are still leaving our people stranded and with very limited support from our government. We are even failing tremendously in even helping them while they wait to leave.
Quote:
This is so hilarious. Everyone knows that if the Liberals were in office there would be the very same BS waiting and all the political bluster around it. The Liberals were all about the 'gestures'. Harper’s the first time I’ve ever voted other than Liberal, and after decades of seeing their crap I’m glad I did. Listening to all the weak complaints from the armchair critics really puts situations like this in perspective for me. Thank you.
Perhaps aside from the gesture, the Lebanese Canadians would have been better served if our Prime Minister got back to Canada, and started delegating because his people are running around in a mess over here in …
.
Electoral Member
Posts: 705
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
July 20th, 2006, 10:02 AM
Even the US was smart enough to start renting ships.
And there are enough people already waiting in Cyprus. We've finally become smart enough to have Air Canada send more planes.
Slow on decisions!!
Quoting
"Canada is accustomed to arranging evacuations by air. Water was another matter. Unlike countries such as Britain and the United States, Canada had no military vessels in the region. And that meant private ships would have to be leased from places such as Cyprus at a time when many other countries were trying to do the same thing."
Even the US was smart enough to start renting ships.
And there are enough people already waiting in Cyprus. We've finally become smart enough to have Air Canada send more planes.
Slow on decisions!!
Electoral Member
Posts: 705
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
July 20th, 2006, 10:07 AM
Claudius, the Liberals are not in office as leadership. Do you realize that? The Liberals are not running the show. You can’t blame them for what you think they would do. It’s called responsibility when you take office. Harper wanted the job. If he can’t handle it, well he can step down then.
Claudius, the Liberals are not leading Canada.
Quoting
This is so hilarious. Everyone knows that if the Liberals were in office there would be the very same BS waiting and all the political bluster around it. The Liberals were all about the 'gestures'. Harper’s the first time I’ve ever voted other than Liberal, and after decades of seeing their crap I’m glad I did. Listening to all the weak complaints from the armchair critics really puts situations like this in perspective for me. Thank you.
Claudius, the Liberals are not in office as leadership. Do you realize that? The Liberals are not running the show. You can’t blame them for what you think they would do. It’s called responsibility when you take office. Harper wanted the job. If he can’t handle it, well he can step down then.
Claudius, the Liberals are not leading Canada.
Electoral Member
Posts: 705
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
July 20th, 2006, 10:17 AM
How exactly does this Globe and Mail article you pasted help in defending Harper? Here is how it starts...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
PMO wanted crisis kept under wraps, sources say
By DOUG SAUNDERS and MARK MACKINNON AND GLORIA GALLOWAY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Micromanagement by the Prime Minister's Office and a lack of resources in Lebanon contributed to the confusion and anguish at Beirut's port Wednesday as Canadians trying to flee Israeli bombardments watched boats chartered by other nations sail away, leaving them behind.
It is expected, ultimately, to be the largest removal of Canadian citizens from a crisis zone ever arranged by the federal government. But, as early as Sunday, there were complaints about delays in arranging ships to carry people to safety, as well as lineups and inaction at the Canadian embassy.
The perception of inaction was exacerbated by the lack of information flowing last week about Canadian efforts to organize a response.
In fact, Foreign Affairs staff realized last week that there was an emergency situation involving tens of thousands of Canadians brewing in Lebanon.
But federal sources say there was an edict handed down by Sandra Buckler, the Prime Minister's communications director, dictating that the situation was to be kept under wraps.
Quoting
Quit comparing Canada to France, Germany, Brtiain etc. Here is a quote from the Globe which should explain why we cannot move our people out in the sammer manner as those countries.
Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
How exactly does this Globe and Mail article you pasted help in defending Harper? Here is how it starts...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
PMO wanted crisis kept under wraps, sources say
By DOUG SAUNDERS and MARK MACKINNON AND GLORIA GALLOWAY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Micromanagement by the Prime Minister's Office and a lack of resources in Lebanon contributed to the confusion and anguish at Beirut's port Wednesday as Canadians trying to flee Israeli bombardments watched boats chartered by other nations sail away, leaving them behind.
It is expected, ultimately, to be the largest removal of Canadian citizens from a crisis zone ever arranged by the federal government. But, as early as Sunday, there were complaints about delays in arranging ships to carry people to safety, as well as lineups and inaction at the Canadian embassy.
The perception of inaction was exacerbated by the lack of information flowing last week about Canadian efforts to organize a response.
In fact, Foreign Affairs staff realized last week that there was an emergency situation involving tens of thousands of Canadians brewing in Lebanon.
But federal sources say there was an edict handed down by Sandra Buckler, the Prime Minister's communications director, dictating that the situation was to be kept under wraps.
Electoral Member
Posts: 705
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
July 20th, 2006, 10:23 AM
More from your Globe and Mail article:
Quoting
Yes, and the excuses you've sited were made by the government. They are government excuses!
More from your Globe and Mail article:
Quote:
In Cyprus, Canadian officials said they felt betrayed by Ottawa. Canadian diplomats say the reason Wednesday's evacuation was so catastrophically slow is because decisions had to be routed through Ottawa — and nobody was even at work in Ottawa until midafternoon in Lebanon. “If you want to know where that boat is going, don't ask us — it's Ottawa driving the boat,” one official said, using a line repeated by others throughout the day.
Electoral Member
Posts: 705
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
July 20th, 2006, 10:30 AM
And so slow in being able to utilize these other resources.
Quoting
Yes, but while other countries were already getting their people out we had one ship, I don't think it was a big one either, and the PM who slept overnight on the tarmac.
Ummm one ship, we have 6 ships that we have contracted out.
And so slow in being able to utilize these other resources.
Clean my windows Socrates
Posts: 4,799
Videos: 1
Videos: 1
July 20th, 2006, 10:39 AM
Quoting
How exactly does this Globe and Mail article you pasted help in defending Harper? Here is how it starts...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
PMO wanted crisis kept under wraps, sources say
By DOUG SAUNDERS and MARK MACKINNON AND GLORIA GALLOWAY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Micromanagement by the Prime Minister's Office and a lack of resources in Lebanon contributed to the confusion and anguish at Beirut's port Wednesday as Canadians trying to flee Israeli bombardments watched boats chartered by other nations sail away, leaving them behind.
It is expected, ultimately, to be the largest removal of Canadian citizens from a crisis zone ever arranged by the federal government. But, as early as Sunday, there were complaints about delays in arranging ships to carry people to safety, as well as lineups and inaction at the Canadian embassy.
The perception of inaction was exacerbated by the lack of information flowing last week about Canadian efforts to organize a response.
In fact, Foreign Affairs staff realized last week that there was an emergency situation involving tens of thousands of Canadians brewing in Lebanon.
But federal sources say there was an edict handed down by Sandra Buckler, the Prime Minister's communications director, dictating that the situation was to be kept under wraps.
I am not defending Harper. I was merely posting a paragraph in the article which explained why Canada hasn't been able to evactuate people in the same manner or fashion as the US, Britain etc.
Quoting
Quit comparing Canada to France, Germany, Brtiain etc. Here is a quote from the Globe which should explain why we cannot move our people out in the sammer manner as those countries.
Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
How exactly does this Globe and Mail article you pasted help in defending Harper? Here is how it starts...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
PMO wanted crisis kept under wraps, sources say
By DOUG SAUNDERS and MARK MACKINNON AND GLORIA GALLOWAY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Micromanagement by the Prime Minister's Office and a lack of resources in Lebanon contributed to the confusion and anguish at Beirut's port Wednesday as Canadians trying to flee Israeli bombardments watched boats chartered by other nations sail away, leaving them behind.
It is expected, ultimately, to be the largest removal of Canadian citizens from a crisis zone ever arranged by the federal government. But, as early as Sunday, there were complaints about delays in arranging ships to carry people to safety, as well as lineups and inaction at the Canadian embassy.
The perception of inaction was exacerbated by the lack of information flowing last week about Canadian efforts to organize a response.
In fact, Foreign Affairs staff realized last week that there was an emergency situation involving tens of thousands of Canadians brewing in Lebanon.
But federal sources say there was an edict handed down by Sandra Buckler, the Prime Minister's communications director, dictating that the situation was to be kept under wraps.
Member
Posts: 194
July 20th, 2006, 01:26 PM
Eleven
Here is again for your benefit:
Next time instead of pompously telling people to read books why not prove your reading comprehension by correctly reading the posts you are replying to?
.
Eleven
Quote:
That's not my point. Do you understand that? Obviously you are too concerned with whining about how others are "personally attacking you" to fully read the posts you are replying to.
Claudius, the Liberals are not in office as leadership. Do you realize that? The Liberals are not running the show. You can’t blame them for what you think they would do. It’s called responsibility when you take office. Harper wanted the job. If he can’t handle it, well he can step down then.
Here is again for your benefit:
Quote:
Well I guess it's a good thing then we finally have a government in office that recognizes the need for military transport aircraft and bought them, despite all the "harping" the very same critics of this evacuation did about that at the time.
This is so hilarious. Everyone knows that if the Liberals were in office there would be the very same BS waiting and all the political bluster around it. The Liberals were all about the 'gestures'. Harper’s the first time I’ve ever voted other than Liberal, and after decades of seeing their crap I’m glad I did. Listening to all the weak complaints from the armchair critics really puts situations like this in perspective for me. Thank you.
Thank you so much eleven + backwards eleven (my that's clever) for completely puposely misreading my post and proving my point that you can only criticize when it's not the Liberals in office and that you are obviously too dim to recall all the BS crap regarding botched rescues and evacuations and help while the Liberals were in office with everything from the ice storm to the tsunami. Thank you also for proving you cannot even fathom why the PM's purchase of military transport aircraft would help in this situation and for stubbornly refusing to connect the dots and realize the Liberal party was NEVER going to have the foresight. So perfect to watch you, as a Conservative basher and Liberal worshipper, try and divert from the obvious point by pretending my post was comprised of something from your imagination or wishfull thinking rather than what it is. You're right on par for the cliche. Good work.Quote:
We were the slowest to respond. The French, the British, the Germans, the Americans all got there before us, and we have the largest amount of people in Lebanon to evacuate. And we are still leaving our people stranded and with very limited support from our government. We are even failing tremendously in even helping them while they wait to leave.
Well I guess it's a good thing then we finally have a government in office that recognizes the need for military transport aircraft and bought them, despite all the "harping" the very same critics of this evacuation did about that at the time.
Quote:
Perhaps aside from the gesture, the Lebanese Canadians would have been better served if our Prime Minister got back to Canada, and started delegating because his people are running around in a mess over here in …
This is so hilarious. Everyone knows that if the Liberals were in office there would be the very same BS waiting and all the political bluster around it. The Liberals were all about the 'gestures'. Harper’s the first time I’ve ever voted other than Liberal, and after decades of seeing their crap I’m glad I did. Listening to all the weak complaints from the armchair critics really puts situations like this in perspective for me. Thank you.
Next time instead of pompously telling people to read books why not prove your reading comprehension by correctly reading the posts you are replying to?
.
Electoral Member
Posts: 705
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
July 20th, 2006, 01:43 PM
Why, I guess I should apologize! Yes, I guess this is a time to slam the Liberals in ‘your expressed way of doing it’. It is so much more important than addressing the responsibility of those who at this time can really do things to remedy the mess. This being the current government under Harper. My apologies, and let me take my blinders off if you will be so gracious.
Those military planes would come in handy right now. You would think that the military planes we DO HAVE, could however be used at this time. Maybe those planes are tied up in Afghanistan. Would our new planes have been accessible? I would have no way of knowing.
My apologies Claudius.
Oh and could you um... tell me where I pompously told people, as you put it, to read books?
Why, I guess I should apologize! Yes, I guess this is a time to slam the Liberals in ‘your expressed way of doing it’. It is so much more important than addressing the responsibility of those who at this time can really do things to remedy the mess. This being the current government under Harper. My apologies, and let me take my blinders off if you will be so gracious.
Those military planes would come in handy right now. You would think that the military planes we DO HAVE, could however be used at this time. Maybe those planes are tied up in Afghanistan. Would our new planes have been accessible? I would have no way of knowing.
My apologies Claudius.
Oh and could you um... tell me where I pompously told people, as you put it, to read books?
Quoting
Next time instead of pompously telling people to read books why not prove your reading comprehension by correctly reading the posts you are replying to?
Member
Posts: 194
July 20th, 2006, 01:45 PM
Whatever. I'm sure you're all right. If it wasn't Harper in office and a Liberal instead it would all be a happy ending. lol. What hypocrites guys like you are.
.
Quote:
That's right Bitwhys....and every mission that requires evacuation is going to involve an airport that was blown away. So obviously those planes Harper bought that the Liberals never would are a completely useless wasste of tax $$. While we're at it I'm sure that was the only airport in Lebanon.
Beruit had its airport blown out. (twice?) What's any of this got to do with aircraft?
Whatever. I'm sure you're all right. If it wasn't Harper in office and a Liberal instead it would all be a happy ending. lol. What hypocrites guys like you are.
.
Member
Posts: 194
July 20th, 2006, 01:48 PM
.
Quote:
I'm not slamming the Liberals. As I pointed out I've only ever NOT voted for them once. I'm simply pointing out how a mountain is being made from a molehill by you and others (notibly the media) simply because a Conservative is in office.
Why, I guess I should apologize! Yes, I guess this is a time to slam the Liberals in ‘your expressed way of doing it’.
Quote:
Yeah but I'll bet my right arm that's not the impetus behind your complaints. You want to (need to) bash Harper. Youhave no idea what the Liberals would've done, nor do you have any idea what the Liberals would've said about Israel's attack on Lebanon.
It is so much more important than addressing the responsibility of those who at this time can really do things to remedy the mess.
Quote:
There. That's a nice rational statement. Congratulations.
Maybe those planes are tied up in Afghanistan. Would our new planes have been accessible? I would have no way of knowing.
.
