Harper's disingenuous frenship with the Natives.

[Socrates the Greek]

Harper spoke well about the Native Indians of Canada before the election, after the election the proof is in the eating Harper has taken a very inappropriate position towards the needs of the native people in an effort to reduce the miserable life’s many natives are faced with each and every day passing by on the Canadian reserves. First with the Kalona accord telling the Indians sorry so sad to bad I got your votes during this last election and now I will make you suffer even more with the stupid neo con thinking on the subject regarding the fisheries. The Natives were here before Harper, and Harper will gladly steal the Indians fish and tell the Indian sorry I do not recognise you to be any different than that of my white brothers.
If any one will argue that the Indian is in the wrong on both of these fronts, must be severely brain washed and allergic to the truth between Canada and the Native Indians. Harper will at the end of this short term make a bad PM and Canada should pay attention on the next election. 4 Years is a long time to squander with a PM that would rather lie than be the well principled man he told us he was when in fact Harper is just no different than of the previous government if we follow that angle of logic.

 

[tamarin]

As long as the Indian Affairs ministry is the bloated, profligate monster it is, there'll be little public sympathy for native grievances. First Nations have got to get their own house in order before they accuse us of mismanaging ours.

 

[DurkaDurka]

RE: Harper's disingenuous

Just grant the natives more casino licenses, that seems to keep them happy.

 

[EastSideScotian]

The Natives, should be forced to be come like every other Canadian, and stop enjoying their free ride on our tax dollar, they should work for what they have and find pride in themselves as working for their community and the bettering of their familys and people. Natives should be come resourceful and useful to themselves, and stop leaching off our sweat and toil to make the differances they seem to want so badly. Other than complainging they should take that effort and put it into working, creating jobs, and looking for jobs. I agree with their rights, but I dissagree with thier constant bitching and moaning when they refuse to work for their community, and think evrything should be handed to them. When we first came here to the New Land, they didnt have a government handing them evrything they wanted, why should they get one now?

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Re: RE: Harper's disingenuous frenship with the Natives.

The Natives, should be forced to be come like every other Canadian, and stop enjoying their free ride on our tax dollar, they should work for what they have and find pride in themselves as working for their community and the bettering of their familys and people. Natives should be come resourceful and useful to themselves, and stop leaching off our sweat and toil to make the differances they seem to want so badly. Other than complainging they should take that effort and put it into working, creating jobs, and looking for jobs. I agree with their rights, but I dissagree with thier constant bitching and moaning when they refuse to work for their community, and think evrything should be handed to them. When we first came here to the New Land, they didnt have a government handing them evrything they wanted, why should they get one now?

I agree with their rights, but I dissagree with thier constant bitching and moaning when they refuse to work for their community, and think evrything should be handed to them. When we first came here to the New Land, they didnt have a government handing them evrything they wanted, why should they get one now?


Point one when your rights are violated and no one will take you serious because of the racial stigma "he is an Indian I don’t want to hire him they are all drunks" is what many employers have said.

The truth is the white man got the Indian drunk and Stoll his land, when the Indian protested than Imperialistic Colonisation took place faster than the Indian can fight or protest because the majority got used to the booze the white man brought over and the rest became history on the exchange for booze over land.

When their Chiefs rob them blind and society in a whole looks at them as despicable examples of human life when in fact they are victims of a failed society, the joke is on the social system of the country and the people who feel that the Indian is nothing but a leach.

The real Christian comes out that hypocrisy doesn’t it? Let as not forget the Indians never invited any one to come and facilitate them with Governments and red tape it was all imposed on them, the visitor invited him self in and took the liberty upon them selves to occupy land that did not belong to them.

 

[SaintLucifer]

Re: RE: Harper's disingenuous frenship with the Natives.

The Natives, should be forced to be come like every other Canadian, and stop enjoying their free ride on our tax dollar, they should work for what they have and find pride in themselves as working for their community and the bettering of their familys and people. Natives should be come resourceful and useful to themselves, and stop leaching off our sweat and toil to make the differances they seem to want so badly. Other than complainging they should take that effort and put it into working, creating jobs, and looking for jobs. I agree with their rights, but I dissagree with thier constant bitching and moaning when they refuse to work for their community, and think evrything should be handed to them. When we first came here to the New Land, they didnt have a government handing them evrything they wanted, why should they get one now?

I agree with their rights, but I dissagree with thier constant bitching and moaning when they refuse to work for their community, and think evrything should be handed to them. When we first came here to the New Land, they didnt have a government handing them evrything they wanted, why should they get one now?


Point one when your rights are violated and no one will take you serious because of the racial stigma "he is an Indian I don’t want to hire him they are all drunks" is what many employers have said.

The truth is the white man got the Indian drunk and Stoll his land, when the Indian protested than Imperialistic Colonisation took place faster than the Indian can fight or protest because the majority got used to the booze the white man brought over and the rest became history on the exchange for booze over land.

When their Chiefs rob them blind and society in a whole looks at them as despicable examples of human life when in fact they are victims of a failed society, the joke is on the social system of the country and the people who feel that the Indian is nothing but a leach.

The real Christian comes out that hypocrisy doesn’t it? Let as not forget the Indians never invited any one to come and facilitate them with Governments and red tape it was all imposed on them, the visitor invited him self in and took the liberty upon them selves to occupy land that did not belong to them.

Are you for real? Do you actually believe the things you post? Racial stigma? It is nothing more than the truth when an employer may decide not to hire a native because that native is a drunk. I have seen proof of this firsthand during my yearlong stay in the Northwest Territories city of Yellowknife. The natives were everywhere and they were always drunk. Yes. Always. I know because I was there. The natives in Yellowknife live in nice warm homes paid for by the Canadian taxpayer. They drive around in brand-new pickup trucks paid for by the Canadian taxpayer. They all own gorgeous snowmobiles paid for by the Canadian taxpayer. I saw all of this with mine own eyes.

Much of the land in Canada was not 'stolen' from the natives as you proclaim. It was paid for via trade. Why the natives refuse to admit this is beyond me. Read about all the treaties that happened. A native band would trade 500,000 sq. hectares for a single metal axe. It is not the fault of the white man that the native did not grasp the concept of 'value'. The white man got a bargain yes but the deals were not forced down the throats of the natives just as the booze was never forced down their throats. Many other groups received booze from the white man yet it is only the natives of North America who have become constant drunks. Why is this? Do you read about entire peoples being considered 'drunks'? No. Only the natives and they have only themselves to blame. No one stuck a gun to their heads and told them 'drink this booze now or I shall blow your head off'. Never happened. The natives became drunks of their own free will. In Yellowknife I saw many a drunk native. Not once did I see a drunk white man other than those having a good time at a sports bar watching a hockey game. The natives of Yellowknife were drunk in the morning, in the afternoon and in the evening. Right in front of the apartment complex in which I lived I found a native faced down in the snow. I thought he was dead. Imagine my surprise when an RCMP cruiser showed up and two officers came out and started shoving this native with their boots? I asked the officers if this was a dead body or something. They laughed at me and said no, it was another drunk native. They picked him up out of the snow (this happened in absolutely subzero temperatures) and dragged him to the cruiser. I asked the officers what happens now. They said he would go to detox, again. What they told me next totally shocked the fuck out of me. He was 14 years of age!! One can only imagine seeing a 14 year old drunk native face down in the snow in weather that would leave most Edmontonians in tears it was so fucking cold. The officers claimed there was no doubt he had been lying face down in the snow for hours. Before Yellowknife I knew very little about natives nor did I give a damn. After Yellowknife I completely lost all respect for them. I had been threatened by natives in Yellowknife. I took on all comers and was bitched at by the white residents of Yellowknife for standing up to the natives because it was wrong to do so. Such people asked where I was from. I told them Toronto. They all looked at each other and mutter 'aha! That explains it!'. Seems others who moved to Yellowknife from Toronto would not take shit from the natives either. Those people from Edmonton living in Yellowknife kowtowed to the natives. Those from Toronto did not in the slightest.

Occupy land that did not belong to them? Then how did settlements happen? Would settlements have been possible with natives already living upon that stretch of land where they were to be located? How? The white man landed, saw the natives on the land and said 'move aside! This land is now ours!'. Remember, these are white people who came over on a boat therefore their numbers would not merit a great defence.

The white man came to live in the New World. He created colonies. Oops! Evil colonials! Bad, bad white man! Let us now go to Europe, homeland of the white people. We have many non-white races immigrating to those white homelands in Europe. Whites complain. Uh uh! Nope! You cannot complain because that is racist. Tell me, what gives? The two situations are exactly the same, yet one group is a poor mistreated native whilst the other group is racist for wanting to keep their own lands. Those peoples of non-white homelands are free to protest against whites coming to their lands but whoa! Do not complain as a white man when non-whites come into their homelands! That is bad! Evil! Politically-incorrect! Racist! Now this truly confuses me. When non-whites enter white homelands it is immigration. When whites enter non-white homelands it is called evil imperialism. WTF?

 

[bluealberta]

I am from Southern Alberta. I grew up in Southern Alberta. I did not always live in Southern Alberta, so I got an idea of what life was like away from two of the biggest Indian reserves in Canada.

Those are my bona fides. I have been involved with Indians, or Natives, or Aboriginals, or First Nations, or whatever politically correct name they want to call themselves, or what the CBC decides is politically correct.

I went to school with Indians all my school life. I have lived in a community where Indians will walk three abreast down a sidewalk, forcing you to go to the other side of the street, and if you do not, you may have to physically fight to go past them. I currently work in a city where I have to be accosted by Indians when I want to walk to a food court for lunch, at least four out of five days. I live in a city where drunk or stoned Indians are a commons sight.

I also grew up where several Indians were great friends of mine, and are today. Having a dark skin, I sometimes am mistaken for being an Indian, which is a source of amusement to me.

I also know that Indians get preferential job treatment in the federal government, because I work for the federal government and see it on a daily basis, whether it is for quotas or other socially acceptable programs. I know that Indians get free medical care, free school books and school registrations, which I and my family do not. I know that I and my predecessors have been accused of stealing land from the Indians. I know that I have worked for many employers who have tried to employ Indians, only to lose these individuals when the first pay cheques are given out. Assuming, of course, that the Indians actually show up to work at all, which is very erratic in most cases.

Does this make me racist? Indians would say so, I would say that after 50 years of these types of experience, it gives me a pretty balanced outlook on how to deal with Indians.

Until they, as a race, group, or whatever they want to call themselves, get the chip off their shoulders and make as much an effort as most white society has made (and yes, I will say there are extremists on both sides), then the Indian society will not survive as it seems to want to survive.

Here is a really good example of how this works. I have relatives who had their motorhome broken into, with a lot of destruction. Fingerprints determined that the culprits were three kids, 10, 12, and 14 years old. No doubt about who they were. When confronted by police, the parents of these criminals in the making said they were all home on the night the crime took place. You note, I did not say alleged crime, this was a crime plain and simple. The police decided not to pursue this any further. I firmly believe that had this been three white kids, not only would this have been pursued, it would have been headlinenews.

Until situations like this change, there will always be resentment. Until the Indians take responsibility for both their actions and non actions, there will be resentment. Until they decide that the have no problems being treated like the rest of white society, there will be resentment.

The ball, IMO, is firmly in their court. Call me names, call me whatever you want. I have lived over 50 years with Indians, and quite frankly, things are worse now than they were many years ago. Given that Canadians currently support treaty Indians to the tune of approximately $15k per person per year, I have no problem laying the blame solely at the foot of the Indian nations.

 

[Simpleton]

Here is a really good example of how this works. I have relatives who had their motorhome broken into, with a lot of destruction. Fingerprints determined that the culprits were three kids, 10, 12, and 14 years old. No doubt about who they were. When confronted by police, the parents of these criminals in the making said they were all home on the night the crime took place. You note, I did not say alleged crime, this was a crime plain and simple. The police decided not to pursue this any further. I firmly believe that had this been three white kids, not only would this have been pursued, it would have been headlinenews.

That's a really piss-poor example, dude. The simple fact of the matter is that the police responded in the only way that they could. As you so clearly pointed out, two of the three children were 12 years of age or younger. The third was 14. The Criminal Code of Canada does not hold children under the age of 12 accountable for their actions. The police would have done the same thing if the children were white, black, yellow, green or blue.

Secondly, I live in a town that is surrounded by three native reserves. To the best of my knowledge, most natives in this community have jobs and they report to their jobs everyday. Sure, there are natives that drink alcohol, but there are white people that drink alcohol and get in trouble too. I seriously doubt that natives are any better or worse than any other ethnic group in Canada.

I think you're looking at things with a bit of prejudice. I think you're looking for "badness" where not a lot really exists. And you know, you can find character flaws in any human being, if you place them under a microscope and look hard enough. this is basically what the psychiatric profession is all about. :wink:

Do you know waht I mean? If you go looking for drunk natives, you're going to find them. By the same token, if you go looking for drunk white folks, you're going to find a hell of a lot of them. Would it be fair or accurate to label white folks as a bunch of drunks just because you went looking for white drunks and found them? No! That would be absurd. Yet, people tend to do this to the native populations all of the time.

It's really quite simple. If you're on the lookout for evil, you're going to find it. At the very least, you're going to find something that you can pass off as evil. And when you're doing that, you're hardly being objective.

 

[bluealberta]

Here is a really good example of how this works. I have relatives who had their motorhome broken into, with a lot of destruction. Fingerprints determined that the culprits were three kids, 10, 12, and 14 years old. No doubt about who they were. When confronted by police, the parents of these criminals in the making said they were all home on the night the crime took place. You note, I did not say alleged crime, this was a crime plain and simple. The police decided not to pursue this any further. I firmly believe that had this been three white kids, not only would this have been pursued, it would have been headlinenews.

That's a really piss-poor example, dude. The simple fact of the matter is that the police responded in the only way that they could. As you so clearly pointed out, two of the three children were 12 years of age or younger. The third was 14. The Criminal Code of Canada does not hold children under the age of 12 accountable for their actions. The police would have done the same thing if the children were white, black, yellow, green or blue.

Secondly, I live in a town that is surrounded by three native reserves. To the best of my knowledge, most natives in this community have jobs and they report to their jobs everyday. Sure, there are natives that drink alcohol, but there are white people that drink alcohol and get in trouble too. I seriously doubt that natives are any better or worse than any other ethnic group in Canada.

I think you're looking at things with a bit of prejudice. I think you're looking for "badness" where not a lot really exists. And you know, you can find character flaws in any human being, if you place them under a microscope and look hard enough. this is basically what the psychiatric profession is all about. :wink:

Do you know waht I mean? If you go looking for drunk natives, you're going to find them. By the same token, if you go looking for drunk white folks, you're going to find a hell of a lot of them. Would it be fair or accurate to label white folks as a bunch of drunks just because you went looking for white drunks and found them? No! That would be absurd. Yet, people tend to do this to the native populations all of the time.

It's really quite simple. If you're on the lookout for evil, you're going to find it. At the very least, you're going to find something that you can pass off as evil. And when you're doing that, you're hardly being objective.

Funny thing. If I walk across a public park to go have lunch in a mall, how exactly am I "looking" for evil? Every time I am accosted, it is by either a drunk or stoned Indian. I have NEVER been accosted by a drunk or stoned White, Asian, or Black in the nine years I have been doing this. Given these stats, and they ARE true, what I am I supposed to infer?

I knew that someone would come back with your statements. I have no patience for idiots of any color, black, white, red or polka dot. But if I am continually accosted and bothered by a particular color or race, then what I am supposed to infer?

Having being raised around Indians, having lived around Indians, having worked with Indians, and having had business dealings with Indians, my feelings are not prejudiced at all. My feelings are based on over 50 years of experience. I sincerely doubt you have this amount of experience. But if you do, and you can look past all these problems, then you are a better person than me. But let me make this very clear. If I had these same feelings about any race, color or creed, they would be the same. I do not like idiots of any color, race, or creed.

Unfortunately, the cost of built in reverse racism regarding Indians is staggering, and as it is totally unaccountable, it is an absolute disgrace.

 

[Simpleton]

Well, I haven't had fifty years of experience with native peoples, but I'm only 34 years old. I have lived in Sarnia for the majority of my life however. And Sarnia is surrounded by three native reserves.

I have grown up and went to school with natives, I have worked with natives, and I've spent time in jail with natives. I have never had a problem with a native person in my entire life. I have never been assaulted by a native. I have never been harassed by a native. I have never been robbed by a native. I just simply have never had any problems with natives.

From my experience, even the natives that are incarcerated are pretty damn good people. I'm not a big man. I'm really quite meek in my physical stature, and no native has ever bothered me. Not even in jail. And I spent almost five months living in close quarters with natives at the Sarnia jail. So unless the natives in Alberta are somehow different than the natives in southern Ontario, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this particular subject.

 

[bluealberta]

Well, I haven't had fifty years of experience with native peoples, but I'm only 34 years old. I have lived in Sarnia for the majority of my life however. And Sarnia is surrounded by three native reserves.

I have grown up and went to school with natives, I have worked with natives, and I've spent time in jail with natives. I have never had a problem with a native person in my entire life. I have never been assaulted by a native. I have never been harassed by a native. I have never been robbed by a native. I just simply have never had any problems with natives.

From my experience, even the natives that are incarcerated are pretty damn good people. I'm not a big man. I'm really quite meek in my physical stature, and no native has ever bothered me. Not even in jail. And I spent almost five months living in close quarters with natives at the Sarnia jail. So unless the natives in Alberta are somehow different than the natives in southern Ontario, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this particular subject.

I will answer this. I work for the federal government. A year or so ago, we had an Indian from Ontario out in Alberta putting on seminar about our our department should deal with Indians. This individual was a great guy, and the three days we spent with him, both at work and socially, were revealing.

I realized there is a vast difference between Indians from Ontario and those from Alberta, or at least where I come from. FYI, I grew up next to the biggest reserve in Canada, and currently live next to two reserves. But I digress.

It became apparent that there was a difference between the issues of Ontario reserves and Alberta reserves after talking to this gentleman, and he was a gentelman. For instance, the issue of quality drinking water in Ontario is not an issue here on the two reserve I am familiar with. This gentleman acknowledged this, and this lead to some very interesting discussions, but the most interesting thing that came out of this was his absolute amazement regarding the "grievances" of the Indians where we live. He said that if his bands had had the same opportunities as the local bands and tribes in Southern Alberta, they would have no issues at all, and quite frankly, he was pissed off at the Indians in Southern Alberta.

Anyway, like I said, I have been involved with Indians (or whatever PC description you want), for over fifty years. I have known many great Indians, I have been involved in sports with many Indian children, and I will be the first to admit that most are great people. But I will also be the first to say that a lot of the Indian people in my area do absolutely nothing to help themselves, and are the causes of many of the negative feelings we on "the other side" have towards them. I reiterate: In nine years crossing a public park, I have NEVER been accosted by anyone other than an Indian.

Sorry, Dude, but those are my day to day experiences. I cannot change my feelings without a change in their behaviour.

 

[Simpleton]

That's fine. I have never been to Alberta. I don't know what anything is like in Alberta, much less the native population. I, like yourself, can only speak of my personal experiences. And my personal experience with natives has been quite good. I'm very sorry to hear that your experience with natives has been negative.

So what are the issues of the native population in Alberta?

 

[bluealberta]

That's fine. I have never been to Alberta. I don't know what anything is like in Alberta, much less the native population. I, like yourself, can only speak of my personal experiences. And my personal experience with natives has been quite good. I'm very sorry to hear that your experience with natives has been negative.

So what are the issues of the native population in Alberta?

The issues, as I see it from the "other side" is how they can get the most money from whatever sources.

To explain, I will give you two examples. I live next to two large reserves. On both, the ongoing joke, amongst the population of the reserves, is if you want to know who the chief is, look for the best house on the reserve. If you want to know who the relatives of the chief are, look for the next best houses on the reserves. Keep in mind, this comes from the citizens of the reserves themselves, not whites.

Secondly, on one of the reserves, there is a large wind turbine development project. However, when this was first initiated, the money to purchase the turbines was given to the band to be held until the purchase of the equipment was required. When it came time to buy the wind turbines, lo and behold the money had been spent. Some of the money was spent on band council meetings----------in Hawaii. This is not made up , this is public record. There havebeen two financial managers for this band who have quit in the last two months, both very reputable accounting firms, not just in Alberta, but nationally.

What happens out here is a money issue, plain and simple. There is no other explanation for it.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

That's fine. I have never been to Alberta. I don't know what anything is like in Alberta, much less the native population. I, like yourself, can only speak of my personal experiences. And my personal experience with natives has been quite good. I'm very sorry to hear that your experience with natives has been negative.

So what are the issues of the native population in Alberta?

The issues, as I see it from the "other side" is how they can get the most money from whatever sources.

To explain, I will give you two examples. I live next to two large reserves. On both, the ongoing joke, amongst the population of the reserves, is if you want to know who the chief is, look for the best house on the reserve. If you want to know who the relatives of the chief are, look for the next best houses on the reserves. Keep in mind, this comes from the citizens of the reserves themselves, not whites.

Secondly, on one of the reserves, there is a large wind turbine development project. However, when this was first initiated, the money to purchase the turbines was given to the band to be held until the purchase of the equipment was required. When it came time to buy the wind turbines, lo and behold the money had been spent. Some of the money was spent on band council meetings----------in Hawaii. This is not made up , this is public record. There havebeen two financial managers for this band who have quit in the last two months, both very reputable accounting firms, not just in Alberta, but nationally.

What happens out here is a money issue, plain and simple. There is no other explanation for it.

Hey Blue Alberta the feds have an obligation to insure that the chiefs will not take the money for their own personal use. If the feds keep a blind eye and don’t penalise any chiefs that will abuse native public moneys, you know what? The chiefs will keep on robbing their people. To allow that to go on it is a direct indictment of bad stupid management by the feds. Remember when ever the Government doesn’t take appropriate action to insure proper fiscal management by such departments there will always be a rat taking all the cheese for him or her self. And the natives are human beings like you and me. Anything else is self serving bullshit.

 

[SaintLucifer]

That's fine. I have never been to Alberta. I don't know what anything is like in Alberta, much less the native population. I, like yourself, can only speak of my personal experiences. And my personal experience with natives has been quite good. I'm very sorry to hear that your experience with natives has been negative.

So what are the issues of the native population in Alberta?

The issues, as I see it from the "other side" is how they can get the most money from whatever sources.

To explain, I will give you two examples. I live next to two large reserves. On both, the ongoing joke, amongst the population of the reserves, is if you want to know who the chief is, look for the best house on the reserve. If you want to know who the relatives of the chief are, look for the next best houses on the reserves. Keep in mind, this comes from the citizens of the reserves themselves, not whites.

Secondly, on one of the reserves, there is a large wind turbine development project. However, when this was first initiated, the money to purchase the turbines was given to the band to be held until the purchase of the equipment was required. When it came time to buy the wind turbines, lo and behold the money had been spent. Some of the money was spent on band council meetings----------in Hawaii. This is not made up , this is public record. There havebeen two financial managers for this band who have quit in the last two months, both very reputable accounting firms, not just in Alberta, but nationally.

What happens out here is a money issue, plain and simple. There is no other explanation for it.

Hey Blue Alberta the feds have an obligation to insure that the chiefs will not take the money for their own personal use. If the feds keep a blind eye and don’t penalise any chiefs that will abuse native public moneys, you know what? The chiefs will keep on robbing their people. To allow that to go on it is a direct indictment of bad stupid management by the feds. Remember when ever the Government doesn’t take appropriate action to insure proper fiscal management by such departments there will always be a rat taking all the cheese for him or her self. And the natives are human beings like you and me. Anything else is self serving bullshit.

Let me get this straight. The natives spend money they should not be spending nor do they have the right to be spending it yet you are blaming our federal government?

Say you are a purchaser for a huge billion-dollar company. The CEO asks you to purchase a million-dollar part for some company machinery you instead use the money to purchase for yourself a million-dollar home. This is the company's fault for entrusting you with the company funds to do your job? I just love your logic. It makes me laugh. You do realise you would end up in jail if you tried this yes?

 

[bluealberta]

Excellent Points, St. Once again, Socrates has provided another excuse for inexcusable behavior on the part of our Indian population. When will this ever end?

 

[Socrates the Greek]

That's fine. I have never been to Alberta. I don't know what anything is like in Alberta, much less the native population. I, like yourself, can only speak of my personal experiences. And my personal experience with natives has been quite good. I'm very sorry to hear that your experience with natives has been negative.

So what are the issues of the native population in Alberta?

The issues, as I see it from the "other side" is how they can get the most money from whatever sources.

To explain, I will give you two examples. I live next to two large reserves. On both, the ongoing joke, amongst the population of the reserves, is if you want to know who the chief is, look for the best house on the reserve. If you want to know who the relatives of the chief are, look for the next best houses on the reserves. Keep in mind, this comes from the citizens of the reserves themselves, not whites.

Secondly, on one of the reserves, there is a large wind turbine development project. However, when this was first initiated, the money to purchase the turbines was given to the band to be held until the purchase of the equipment was required. When it came time to buy the wind turbines, lo and behold the money had been spent. Some of the money was spent on band council meetings----------in Hawaii. This is not made up , this is public record. There havebeen two financial managers for this band who have quit in the last two months, both very reputable accounting firms, not just in Alberta, but nationally.

What happens out here is a money issue, plain and simple. There is no other explanation for it.

Hey Blue Alberta the feds have an obligation to insure that the chiefs will not take the money for their own personal use. If the feds keep a blind eye and don’t penalise any chiefs that will abuse native public moneys, you know what? The chiefs will keep on robbing their people. To allow that to go on it is a direct indictment of bad stupid management by the feds. Remember when ever the Government doesn’t take appropriate action to insure proper fiscal management by such departments there will always be a rat taking all the cheese for him or her self. And the natives are human beings like you and me. Anything else is self serving bullshit.

Let me get this straight. The natives spend money they should not be spending nor do they have the right to be spending it yet you are blaming our federal government?

Say you are a purchaser for a huge billion-dollar company. The CEO asks you to purchase a million-dollar part for some company machinery you instead use the money to purchase for yourself a million-dollar home. This is the company's fault for entrusting you with the company funds to do your job? I just love your logic. It makes me laugh. You do realise you would end up in jail if you tried this yes?

The person who is handing over millions or billions over the years has a relentless responsibility to insure the money doesn’t go on the wrong hands. Your logic needs calibration. We are not talking about CEOS we are talking about scumbag native chiefs who under fouls pretence take the money that belongs to the native people and the feds keep on giving it to them. It is public knowledge that this is an on going occurrence with many crooked chiefs and the feds keep on misappropriating money that is needed to sustain life on the Canadian reserves. What CEOS? Pure self serving bullshit.

 

[Simpleton]

Let me get this straight. The natives spend money they should not be spending nor do they have the right to be spending it yet you are blaming our federal government?

Say you are a purchaser for a huge billion-dollar company. The CEO asks you to purchase a million-dollar part for some company machinery you instead use the money to purchase for yourself a million-dollar home. This is the company's fault for entrusting you with the company funds to do your job? I just love your logic. It makes me laugh. You do realise you would end up in jail if you tried this yes?

Your logic is flawed, SaintLucifer. If you are a CEO that hands money over to a purchaser, and the purchaser continues to misappropriate the funds, and you're aware of the misappropriation, and you continue to provide funds to crooked purchaser, then, yes, the CEO is responsible.

I think the point that Socrates is trying to make, is that there needs to exist some accountability. If the provider of the funds is not holding the recipipient accountable, then the provider is guilty of malfeasance. Yes, the Federal government has an obligation to ensure that Federal funds are spent as they were intended. If the government has knowledge that the funds are not being spent appropriately, then the government must hold the abusers accountable. Or at the very least, cease making payments to the person misappropriating the funds.

So yes, it is the company's fault if they continue to allow the purchaser to misappropriate the funds. I mean, the criminal purchaser would only end up in jail if the company took responsibility for the misappropriated funds, and held the purchaser accountable. What Socrates is saying, is that the Federal government is not holding the crooked chiefs accountable.

NOTE: I am not implying that native chiefs are crooked. To the best of my knowledge, they are not crooked. I am simply pointing out the flaw in the logic here.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Let me get this straight. The natives spend money they should not be spending nor do they have the right to be spending it yet you are blaming our federal government?

Say you are a purchaser for a huge billion-dollar company. The CEO asks you to purchase a million-dollar part for some company machinery you instead use the money to purchase for yourself a million-dollar home. This is the company's fault for entrusting you with the company funds to do your job? I just love your logic. It makes me laugh. You do realise you would end up in jail if you tried this yes?

Your logic is flawed, SaintLucifer. If you are a CEO that hands money over to a purchaser, and the purchaser continues to misappropriate the funds, and you're aware of the misappropriation, and you continue to provide funds to crooked purchaser, then, yes, the CEO is responsible.

I think the point that Socrates is trying to make, is that there needs to exist some accountability. If the provider of the funds is not holding the recipipient accountable, then the provider is guilty of malfeasance. Yes, the Federal government has an obligation to ensure that Federal funds are spent as they were intended. If the government has knowledge that the funds are not being spent appropriately, then the government must hold the abusers accountable. Or at the very least, cease making payments to the person misappropriating the funds.

So yes, it is the company's fault if they continue to allow the purchaser to misappropriate the funds. I mean, the criminal purchaser would only end up in jail if the company took responsibility for the misappropriated funds, and held the purchaser accountable. What Socrates is saying, is that the Federal government is not holding the crooked chiefs accountable.

NOTE: I am not implying that native chiefs are crooked. To the best of my knowledge, they are not crooked. I am simply pointing out the flaw in the logic here.

Simpleton excellent comment. The truth is that some of these self serving people if they for one day got in the moccasins of the pure natives they would scream loud. But for them the Indian is not a human being, and that is what is sickening in this life, Imperialism is a disease that has done wrong too many innocent people around the planet. They are nothing but hypocrites. They will do to others what they do not done to them.

 

[bluealberta]

The point about accountability is something I have said for many years. However, every time someone tries, the old racist charge is thrown up, which discourages the accountability process, especially from a weak liberal government who makes appeasment an official policy. Perhaps a CPC government will not only demand accountability, but will enforce it as well.

Just as a note, a local reserve has now had two very respectable accounting firms quit as their managers in the last year. Why? Because there is internal bickering on the council, and because the accounting firms are not provided with the information the not only need, but ask for. Just one example, but it is very moot for this thread.