Super Genius
Posts: 1,348 
July 9th, 2006, 08:51 PM
Damn good article ITN, thankx.
Quoting
By David McNally
National myths die hard. And few Canadian myths are more entrenched than the notion of this country as a peacekeeper, free from the militarism and imperialism of the US. Yet this image is a wild fantasy that obscures some ugly truths. Take Canadian participation in the war on Iraq, for instance. While many in Canada believed that this country’s armed forces were not part of the war, the reality was different. Twenty-five military planners from Canada were active members of the US military’s central command (CENTCOM) in Qatar, the body that planned and oversaw the assault on Iraq. About 1300 military personnel on three Canadian warships provided protection for US aircraft carriers from which much of the air war was launched. Canada also had 31 troops inside Iraq working with US and British forces, including ten Canadian pilots who participated in the aerial bombing of Iraq. On top of all this, the Canadian government allowed US aircraft bound for the Persian Gulf to refuel and change crews in Newfoundland. So, however questionable his motives, when US ambassador Paul Cellucci claimed that Canada was offering more support to the war in Iraq than all but three or four nations, he was right. In addition to this direct military involvement, Canadian business is a major producer of equipment for the US war machine. Canadian firms export almost $3 billion worth of military hardware to the US every year. Canadian-built simulators, flight management systems, data networks and computer equipment guided US helicopters, stealth bombers, fighter jets, armoured vehicles and ships used in the attack on Iraq. Not surprisingly, Canada’s business elite came out loudly in favour of the war. This is not because the Canadian business class is a mere puppet of US capitalists, as some commentators suggest. On the contrary, the business class in Canada represents a powerful and well-organized section of international capitalism which profits from imperialist undertakings of its own.
So, when anti-war activists and others embrace anti-imperialism, they should not equate it simply with opposition to the American empire, crucial as that is. Consistent anti-imperialism means opposition to the exploitative practices of all multinational corporations and banks and the governments and armies that protect them. Where Canada is concerned, anti-imperialism begins at home.
David McNally is a member of the New Socialist Group.
http://www.newsocialist.org/magazine/41/article01.html
National myths die hard. And few Canadian myths are more entrenched than the notion of this country as a peacekeeper, free from the militarism and imperialism of the US. Yet this image is a wild fantasy that obscures some ugly truths. Take Canadian participation in the war on Iraq, for instance. While many in Canada believed that this country’s armed forces were not part of the war, the reality was different. Twenty-five military planners from Canada were active members of the US military’s central command (CENTCOM) in Qatar, the body that planned and oversaw the assault on Iraq. About 1300 military personnel on three Canadian warships provided protection for US aircraft carriers from which much of the air war was launched. Canada also had 31 troops inside Iraq working with US and British forces, including ten Canadian pilots who participated in the aerial bombing of Iraq. On top of all this, the Canadian government allowed US aircraft bound for the Persian Gulf to refuel and change crews in Newfoundland. So, however questionable his motives, when US ambassador Paul Cellucci claimed that Canada was offering more support to the war in Iraq than all but three or four nations, he was right. In addition to this direct military involvement, Canadian business is a major producer of equipment for the US war machine. Canadian firms export almost $3 billion worth of military hardware to the US every year. Canadian-built simulators, flight management systems, data networks and computer equipment guided US helicopters, stealth bombers, fighter jets, armoured vehicles and ships used in the attack on Iraq. Not surprisingly, Canada’s business elite came out loudly in favour of the war. This is not because the Canadian business class is a mere puppet of US capitalists, as some commentators suggest. On the contrary, the business class in Canada represents a powerful and well-organized section of international capitalism which profits from imperialist undertakings of its own.
So, when anti-war activists and others embrace anti-imperialism, they should not equate it simply with opposition to the American empire, crucial as that is. Consistent anti-imperialism means opposition to the exploitative practices of all multinational corporations and banks and the governments and armies that protect them. Where Canada is concerned, anti-imperialism begins at home.
David McNally is a member of the New Socialist Group.
http://www.newsocialist.org/magazine/41/article01.html
Damn good article ITN, thankx.
Council Member
Posts: 1,756
July 9th, 2006, 10:15 PM
Considering the lives he destroyed, it was the best possible result. He gambled with people’s financial futures, he held entire states ransom, and lost with a fall so great it killed him. Or so we are told.
Strange how Carma works at times!
Quoting
Finder you are the man, what a great dipiction of CAPITOLISEM. the movie is still plaing PIROTS OF THE CARIBIAN with the only difrence only Keneth Ley was on a suit and tye. Quoting
Like the good ole folks at Enron, right? Please tell me I can trust big business to be responsible!!!
People who have created their own business know
a responsibility greater than the average employee.
a responsibility greater than the average employee.
Considering the lives he destroyed, it was the best possible result. He gambled with people’s financial futures, he held entire states ransom, and lost with a fall so great it killed him. Or so we are told.
Strange how Carma works at times!
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,786
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
July 10th, 2006, 07:51 PM
Thats my rant but I hate to just dump and not leave a little bit of my own opinion. I think the only way to run a nation morally and economically is with a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. Yeah you don't keep the fantics of capitalism and socialism happy and thus you have to fight both all the time, but economically you will be healthy and socially you will make a pretty good society.
Also I'd like to say I don't believe Canada is perfect but we are pretty good, and there are many social democracies around the world which have done alright for themselves and hell social democracy is pretty much how the USA got out of the great depression.
Quoting
THANK YOU finally someone can see this for what it is! Yes Canadian companies do all the bad capitalist things like American companies. But really what is the reason behind this nit picking of this Trotskist new's paper guy ITN loves so much. It's not to reform corperations, but to have them removed completely and have the state run all indestry. Now I am a soft "socialist" really I'm a "pure" social democrat and I lean towards some socialist policies and some government interferance. But you just can't remove Capitalism, it just doesn't work. Even LENIN, LENIN for god sacks learned this with having to bring in the NEP and a few democratic reforms when pure socialism failed COMPLETELY I'm sorry to tell anyone in this forum who believes like ITN's friend that socialism and being 100% anti-corperation is the way to solve all our problems.
Survival of the Fittest.
This columist is just nit-picking, its also funny how we are so Imperal, but yet he can only Focus on one Company......Lame duck anyone?
This columist is just nit-picking, its also funny how we are so Imperal, but yet he can only Focus on one Company......Lame duck anyone?
Thats my rant but I hate to just dump and not leave a little bit of my own opinion. I think the only way to run a nation morally and economically is with a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. Yeah you don't keep the fantics of capitalism and socialism happy and thus you have to fight both all the time, but economically you will be healthy and socially you will make a pretty good society.
Also I'd like to say I don't believe Canada is perfect but we are pretty good, and there are many social democracies around the world which have done alright for themselves and hell social democracy is pretty much how the USA got out of the great depression.
Council Member
Posts: 1,756
July 10th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Quoting
Thats my rant but I hate to just dump and not leave a little bit of my own opinion. I think the only way to run a nation morally and economically is with a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. Yeah you don't keep the fantics of capitalism and socialism happy and thus you have to fight both all the time, but economically you will be healthy and socially you will make a pretty good society.
Also I'd like to say I don't believe Canada is perfect but we are pretty good, and there are many social democracies around the world which have done alright for themselves and hell social democracy is pretty much how the USA got out of the great depression.
The indisputable truth is that the economic structure of the world in a whole will never survive if the big corporations around the world did not exist. It is almost the analogy the horse and the cart, the horse is big corporations and the cart is the people. The cart will never move an inch with out the pull of the horse. Do not bite the hand that feeds you. Unfortunately social democracy is the under dog in today’s way of big business vs. the people. Exploitation turns friends into enemies. Quoting
THANK YOU finally someone can see this for what it is! Yes Canadian companies do all the bad capitalist things like American companies. But really what is the reason behind this nit picking of this Trotskist new's paper guy ITN loves so much. It's not to reform corperations, but to have them removed completely and have the state run all indestry. Now I am a soft "socialist" really I'm a "pure" social democrat and I lean towards some socialist policies and some government interferance. But you just can't remove Capitalism, it just doesn't work. Even LENIN, LENIN for god sacks learned this with having to bring in the NEP and a few democratic reforms when pure socialism failed COMPLETELY I'm sorry to tell anyone in this forum who believes like ITN's friend that socialism and being 100% anti-corperation is the way to solve all our problems.
Survival of the Fittest.
This columist is just nit-picking, its also funny how we are so Imperal, but yet he can only Focus on one Company......Lame duck anyone?
This columist is just nit-picking, its also funny how we are so Imperal, but yet he can only Focus on one Company......Lame duck anyone?
Thats my rant but I hate to just dump and not leave a little bit of my own opinion. I think the only way to run a nation morally and economically is with a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism. Yeah you don't keep the fantics of capitalism and socialism happy and thus you have to fight both all the time, but economically you will be healthy and socially you will make a pretty good society.
Also I'd like to say I don't believe Canada is perfect but we are pretty good, and there are many social democracies around the world which have done alright for themselves and hell social democracy is pretty much how the USA got out of the great depression.
Bright Spark
Posts: 324
July 11th, 2006, 12:02 AM
If you do not like my country then allow me to hold the door open as you leave it forever. Thank you. Ta!
Quoting
A socialist? Gee what a surprise!
By David McNally
National myths die hard. And few Canadian myths are more entrenched than the notion of this country as a peacekeeper, free from the militarism and imperialism of the US. Yet this image is a wild fantasy that obscures some ugly truths. Take Canadian participation in the war on Iraq, for instance. While many in Canada believed that this country’s armed forces were not part of the war, the reality was different. Twenty-five military planners from Canada were active members of the US military’s central command (CENTCOM) in Qatar, the body that planned and oversaw the assault on Iraq. About 1300 military personnel on three Canadian warships provided protection for US aircraft carriers from which much of the air war was launched. Canada also had 31 troops inside Iraq working with US and British forces, including ten Canadian pilots who participated in the aerial bombing of Iraq. On top of all this, the Canadian government allowed US aircraft bound for the Persian Gulf to refuel and change crews in Newfoundland. So, however questionable his motives, when US ambassador Paul Cellucci claimed that Canada was offering more support to the war in Iraq than all but three or four nations, he was right. In addition to this direct military involvement, Canadian business is a major producer of equipment for the US war machine. Canadian firms export almost $3 billion worth of military hardware to the US every year. Canadian-built simulators, flight management systems, data networks and computer equipment guided US helicopters, stealth bombers, fighter jets, armoured vehicles and ships used in the attack on Iraq. Not surprisingly, Canada’s business elite came out loudly in favour of the war. This is not because the Canadian business class is a mere puppet of US capitalists, as some commentators suggest. On the contrary, the business class in Canada represents a powerful and well-organized section of international capitalism which profits from imperialist undertakings of its own.
CANADIAN IMPERIALISM
While Talisman Energy of Calgary is the Canadian company that has gained the most notoriety in recent years (for its ties to a government that tolerated slavery and used terror against civilians), it is far from an isolated case. Earlier this year, for instance, a UN panel charged that eight Canadian mining companies are violating international standards in their business activities in the Congo, where three million people have died in civil wars. These charges come on top of repeated claims that Canadian mining firms operating in Tanzania authorized mass killings of miners.
As these reports make clear, mining companies from Canada are exploiting cheap labour, working with corrupt governments, and turning a blind eye to (if not participating in) terror against civilians in parts of Africa—the very sorts of charges raised against the world’s most rapacious corporations. And these mining companies are far from the only Canadian-based firms exploiting abundant resources, oppressed workers and shady arrangements with governments in the Third World.
We should not be surprised that Third World critics are pointing fingers at Canadian companies since Canada is home to scores of multinational corporations in telecommunications, aluminum, forestry, energy, shoes, rubber, and more. In addition, Canadian-based banks operate extensively in global markets, not least in the Caribbean where they are often among the dominant foreign financial institutions. This is especially true of the Royal Bank of Canada whose roots in the West Indies go back to 1882.
Rather than a small, dependent economy, Canada is a component part of the capitalistically developed world and home to major-league banks and corporations. As the author of a major study of global firms in Canada put it, “Canadian multinationals are not third-rate imitators, but are often at or near the top of their respective industries.” And these corporations are as exploitative and imperialist as can be.
Some Canadian nationalists argue that businesses in this country are in danger of being completely absorbed by US capital, but the facts tell a different story. In fact, Canadian capitalists are also major players in the world of foreign investment and global takeovers. If anything, they have become more significant actors in the world economy.
Between 1994 and 2001, for example, 384 more US businesses were bought up by Canadian corporations than the number of Canadian businesses that US companies managed to purchase. Judged in dollar amounts, Canadian capitalists spent $46 billion more purchasing US businesses than did the latter buying firms in this country. As a result, Canadian corporations have strengthened their presence in the front ranks of global business. In the early 1990s, for instance, the foreign assets of Canadian companies were equal to 23 percent of this country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). By 2001, foreign holdings by Canadian businesses had rocketed to 54 percent of GDP. As a result, since 2000 Canadian capitalism has run a “dividend surplus”— meaning that dividend flows into Canada derived from foreign holdings exceed dividend income flowing out of Canada—to the tune of $3.5 billion.
THIRD WORLD OPPOSITION
It should come as no surprise, then, that Canadian-based corporations have often been targets of opposition in the Third World. Most recently, Talisman Energy has been the focus of a worldwide campaign which ultimately forced it to sell off its operations in Sudan. But Talisman is far from an isolated case. One of the most celebrated cases of Third World opposition to Canadian capital took place in Trinidad in 1970.
Events there began in 1968-69 when black students at Sir George Williams University in Montreal (now Concordia U) began protesting racism at the school. When administrators failed to address their demands, the students occupied the university’s computer center. Rather than negotiate, the administration called in riot police. Of the 97 arrested protesters, ten were students from Trinidad.
As Montreal trials against the protesters opened in early 1970, protests broke out in Trinidad directed at both the Canadian High Commission and the main branch of the Royal Bank of Canada. When the Montreal students were convicted, further demonstrations were organized. The 700-strong Trinidad Regiment mutinied rather than repress the movement.
Like protesters in Africa today, those who took to the streets of Trinidad in 1970 were pointing directly at the racism and imperialism upon which Canadian capitalism has been built. While much of this legacy involves the colonization of indigenous peoples and the conquest of the people of New France (later Québec), we should never forget the international imperialist operations of Canadian corporations.
ANTI-IMPERIALISM
In sum, Canadian capital is an important player within the structures of world capitalism. True, Canadian business is not in the same league as US corporate power (and the war machine on which it can rely). But no other nationally-based capitalist class matches the US’s at the moment. This does not prevent the ruling classes of France, Britain, Germany, Japan, Italy, Belgium and Canada from having their own distinct interests, which they pursue globally. All of these countries, including Canada, are home to major multinational corporations and banks that form a significant part of world imperialism and are complicit in the racism that sustains it.
So, when anti-war activists and others embrace anti-imperialism, they should not equate it simply with opposition to the American empire, crucial as that is. Consistent anti-imperialism means opposition to the exploitative practices of all multinational corporations and banks and the governments and armies that protect them. Where Canada is concerned, anti-imperialism begins at home.
David McNally is a member of the New Socialist Group.
http://www.newsocialist.org/magazine/41/article01.html
National myths die hard. And few Canadian myths are more entrenched than the notion of this country as a peacekeeper, free from the militarism and imperialism of the US. Yet this image is a wild fantasy that obscures some ugly truths. Take Canadian participation in the war on Iraq, for instance. While many in Canada believed that this country’s armed forces were not part of the war, the reality was different. Twenty-five military planners from Canada were active members of the US military’s central command (CENTCOM) in Qatar, the body that planned and oversaw the assault on Iraq. About 1300 military personnel on three Canadian warships provided protection for US aircraft carriers from which much of the air war was launched. Canada also had 31 troops inside Iraq working with US and British forces, including ten Canadian pilots who participated in the aerial bombing of Iraq. On top of all this, the Canadian government allowed US aircraft bound for the Persian Gulf to refuel and change crews in Newfoundland. So, however questionable his motives, when US ambassador Paul Cellucci claimed that Canada was offering more support to the war in Iraq than all but three or four nations, he was right. In addition to this direct military involvement, Canadian business is a major producer of equipment for the US war machine. Canadian firms export almost $3 billion worth of military hardware to the US every year. Canadian-built simulators, flight management systems, data networks and computer equipment guided US helicopters, stealth bombers, fighter jets, armoured vehicles and ships used in the attack on Iraq. Not surprisingly, Canada’s business elite came out loudly in favour of the war. This is not because the Canadian business class is a mere puppet of US capitalists, as some commentators suggest. On the contrary, the business class in Canada represents a powerful and well-organized section of international capitalism which profits from imperialist undertakings of its own.
CANADIAN IMPERIALISM
While Talisman Energy of Calgary is the Canadian company that has gained the most notoriety in recent years (for its ties to a government that tolerated slavery and used terror against civilians), it is far from an isolated case. Earlier this year, for instance, a UN panel charged that eight Canadian mining companies are violating international standards in their business activities in the Congo, where three million people have died in civil wars. These charges come on top of repeated claims that Canadian mining firms operating in Tanzania authorized mass killings of miners.
As these reports make clear, mining companies from Canada are exploiting cheap labour, working with corrupt governments, and turning a blind eye to (if not participating in) terror against civilians in parts of Africa—the very sorts of charges raised against the world’s most rapacious corporations. And these mining companies are far from the only Canadian-based firms exploiting abundant resources, oppressed workers and shady arrangements with governments in the Third World.
We should not be surprised that Third World critics are pointing fingers at Canadian companies since Canada is home to scores of multinational corporations in telecommunications, aluminum, forestry, energy, shoes, rubber, and more. In addition, Canadian-based banks operate extensively in global markets, not least in the Caribbean where they are often among the dominant foreign financial institutions. This is especially true of the Royal Bank of Canada whose roots in the West Indies go back to 1882.
Rather than a small, dependent economy, Canada is a component part of the capitalistically developed world and home to major-league banks and corporations. As the author of a major study of global firms in Canada put it, “Canadian multinationals are not third-rate imitators, but are often at or near the top of their respective industries.” And these corporations are as exploitative and imperialist as can be.
Some Canadian nationalists argue that businesses in this country are in danger of being completely absorbed by US capital, but the facts tell a different story. In fact, Canadian capitalists are also major players in the world of foreign investment and global takeovers. If anything, they have become more significant actors in the world economy.
Between 1994 and 2001, for example, 384 more US businesses were bought up by Canadian corporations than the number of Canadian businesses that US companies managed to purchase. Judged in dollar amounts, Canadian capitalists spent $46 billion more purchasing US businesses than did the latter buying firms in this country. As a result, Canadian corporations have strengthened their presence in the front ranks of global business. In the early 1990s, for instance, the foreign assets of Canadian companies were equal to 23 percent of this country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). By 2001, foreign holdings by Canadian businesses had rocketed to 54 percent of GDP. As a result, since 2000 Canadian capitalism has run a “dividend surplus”— meaning that dividend flows into Canada derived from foreign holdings exceed dividend income flowing out of Canada—to the tune of $3.5 billion.
THIRD WORLD OPPOSITION
It should come as no surprise, then, that Canadian-based corporations have often been targets of opposition in the Third World. Most recently, Talisman Energy has been the focus of a worldwide campaign which ultimately forced it to sell off its operations in Sudan. But Talisman is far from an isolated case. One of the most celebrated cases of Third World opposition to Canadian capital took place in Trinidad in 1970.
Events there began in 1968-69 when black students at Sir George Williams University in Montreal (now Concordia U) began protesting racism at the school. When administrators failed to address their demands, the students occupied the university’s computer center. Rather than negotiate, the administration called in riot police. Of the 97 arrested protesters, ten were students from Trinidad.
As Montreal trials against the protesters opened in early 1970, protests broke out in Trinidad directed at both the Canadian High Commission and the main branch of the Royal Bank of Canada. When the Montreal students were convicted, further demonstrations were organized. The 700-strong Trinidad Regiment mutinied rather than repress the movement.
Like protesters in Africa today, those who took to the streets of Trinidad in 1970 were pointing directly at the racism and imperialism upon which Canadian capitalism has been built. While much of this legacy involves the colonization of indigenous peoples and the conquest of the people of New France (later Québec), we should never forget the international imperialist operations of Canadian corporations.
ANTI-IMPERIALISM
In sum, Canadian capital is an important player within the structures of world capitalism. True, Canadian business is not in the same league as US corporate power (and the war machine on which it can rely). But no other nationally-based capitalist class matches the US’s at the moment. This does not prevent the ruling classes of France, Britain, Germany, Japan, Italy, Belgium and Canada from having their own distinct interests, which they pursue globally. All of these countries, including Canada, are home to major multinational corporations and banks that form a significant part of world imperialism and are complicit in the racism that sustains it.
So, when anti-war activists and others embrace anti-imperialism, they should not equate it simply with opposition to the American empire, crucial as that is. Consistent anti-imperialism means opposition to the exploitative practices of all multinational corporations and banks and the governments and armies that protect them. Where Canada is concerned, anti-imperialism begins at home.
David McNally is a member of the New Socialist Group.
http://www.newsocialist.org/magazine/41/article01.html
If you do not like my country then allow me to hold the door open as you leave it forever. Thank you. Ta!
Council Member
Posts: 1,593
Location: Changchun, China
Location: Changchun, China
July 11th, 2006, 06:31 AM
Sure the article exaggerates greately, not to mention that it seems to be overly critical of capitalism (again, if you should open your eyes enough for your pulils to be exposed to the air, you could see that my previous post implied that. Don't worry, the air ain't clorinated). But that doesn't change the fact that there are at least some truths to the article about which it is worth thinking. Unles, of course, you're suggesting that Saint Canada is oh so holy!
I love Canada, and because I love Canada, I like to point out its flaws precisely so that it can improve itself. Let's put it this way, an extreme example here. If I were in a foreign country and found out that a Canadian spy was working there, I'd be the first to rat him out! Why? So that the Canadian government realises that some Canadians expect it to live according to a higher standard. We wouldn't appreciate foreing spies spying on Canadian soil, so why the reverse? Now of course if I ever found a Chinese spy on Candian soil, I'd be the first to rat him out too.
In fact, the more I love a country, the more critical I'll be of it, and the more I'll hold it to a higher moral standard. Even if Canada's involvement in injustices is mild in comparison to that of other nations, it still doesn't matter. After all, we don't let a thief get away with the orgument that the murderer is worse, right? So why such standards for nations? I don't care what Iran does; I don't live there. But I do care what Canada does because that is where I am from. I do care about what China does because here I am. I do care about waht the US does because it always speaks such lofty words, and so I expect it to live up to them.
And that's my stance.
Quoting
Hmmm... I don't know if the problem is with your eyes, reading skills, brain, connection between the eyes and the brain, or some combination of any or all of the above. But if you should read my statement again, you'll notice that I did state "obvious partisan prejudices aside". So yes, I agree with parts of the article, but not all of the article. So before you judge, it might have been wiser to ask with what parts I agree or not. Quoting
Oh wonderful! We have a commie on our site.
"New Socialist Group"
Ha, now I understand why the word capitalism kept crawling up! Anyway, obvious partisan prejudices aside, it's a good article.
Ha, now I understand why the word capitalism kept crawling up! Anyway, obvious partisan prejudices aside, it's a good article.
Sure the article exaggerates greately, not to mention that it seems to be overly critical of capitalism (again, if you should open your eyes enough for your pulils to be exposed to the air, you could see that my previous post implied that. Don't worry, the air ain't clorinated). But that doesn't change the fact that there are at least some truths to the article about which it is worth thinking. Unles, of course, you're suggesting that Saint Canada is oh so holy!
I love Canada, and because I love Canada, I like to point out its flaws precisely so that it can improve itself. Let's put it this way, an extreme example here. If I were in a foreign country and found out that a Canadian spy was working there, I'd be the first to rat him out! Why? So that the Canadian government realises that some Canadians expect it to live according to a higher standard. We wouldn't appreciate foreing spies spying on Canadian soil, so why the reverse? Now of course if I ever found a Chinese spy on Candian soil, I'd be the first to rat him out too.
In fact, the more I love a country, the more critical I'll be of it, and the more I'll hold it to a higher moral standard. Even if Canada's involvement in injustices is mild in comparison to that of other nations, it still doesn't matter. After all, we don't let a thief get away with the orgument that the murderer is worse, right? So why such standards for nations? I don't care what Iran does; I don't live there. But I do care what Canada does because that is where I am from. I do care about what China does because here I am. I do care about waht the US does because it always speaks such lofty words, and so I expect it to live up to them.
And that's my stance.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,786
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
July 16th, 2006, 11:08 PM
I understand what you are saying Machjo, but to nit pick Canadian Capitalism, without looking at how many wnderful socialist like programs we have, and to nit pick Canadian "Imperalism" is more or less a joke!
Ok, Left Wing Liberals, Social Democrats and even sometimes socialists are respected in Canada, usually at least if they are moderates and don't want a socialist state. Very few of us do want a pure socialist state and the NDP, even the left wing of the NDP doesn't even have those hopes. But when you go onto the Communist Party of Canada, they are less respect but tolerated. But even to the Communist party of Canada which in itself is not a Orthadoxy of Marxism and more of a Social democratic party with teeth, the people and p[arties like the "New Socialist" group are a joke even to them. I know members of the communist party and they shake there heads at these trostskists too and often sound right wing compaired to these jokers.
Now ITN claimes to be a rightist with a communists heart or soul, fine, but to post such a nit picky easy which the Communist party of Canada itself would most likely find area's to laugh about in it is well absurd I'm sorry to say.
I highly doubt ITN can actually believe what is said in the eassy himself even though he has posted it and defended it. But comprise in political systems are needed. China knows this all too well itself now as the elite communist class in China turns into the elite capitalist class.
Canada in my eyes may not be perfect and I complain about it enough myself, but compaired to many other nations around the world I think Canada;s blend of Socialism and capitalism is healthy. Sure the Three main parties may fight over how much either way they wish to go but we all know the Conservatives just won't touch some socialist programs and the NDP would not makle more then a handfull of crown corperations. I think Ontario the only big dream the Ontario NDP have is to make Auto insurance public and perhaps make the energy public as well. Besides that I doubt we'd see any big changes.
I understand what you are saying Machjo, but to nit pick Canadian Capitalism, without looking at how many wnderful socialist like programs we have, and to nit pick Canadian "Imperalism" is more or less a joke!
Ok, Left Wing Liberals, Social Democrats and even sometimes socialists are respected in Canada, usually at least if they are moderates and don't want a socialist state. Very few of us do want a pure socialist state and the NDP, even the left wing of the NDP doesn't even have those hopes. But when you go onto the Communist Party of Canada, they are less respect but tolerated. But even to the Communist party of Canada which in itself is not a Orthadoxy of Marxism and more of a Social democratic party with teeth, the people and p[arties like the "New Socialist" group are a joke even to them. I know members of the communist party and they shake there heads at these trostskists too and often sound right wing compaired to these jokers.
Now ITN claimes to be a rightist with a communists heart or soul, fine, but to post such a nit picky easy which the Communist party of Canada itself would most likely find area's to laugh about in it is well absurd I'm sorry to say.
I highly doubt ITN can actually believe what is said in the eassy himself even though he has posted it and defended it. But comprise in political systems are needed. China knows this all too well itself now as the elite communist class in China turns into the elite capitalist class.
Canada in my eyes may not be perfect and I complain about it enough myself, but compaired to many other nations around the world I think Canada;s blend of Socialism and capitalism is healthy. Sure the Three main parties may fight over how much either way they wish to go but we all know the Conservatives just won't touch some socialist programs and the NDP would not makle more then a handfull of crown corperations. I think Ontario the only big dream the Ontario NDP have is to make Auto insurance public and perhaps make the energy public as well. Besides that I doubt we'd see any big changes.
Bright Spark
Posts: 324
July 16th, 2006, 11:48 PM
Quoting
Dumb comparison. Those indicted were not 'owners' of Enron. They were CEOs. The true owners of Enron are shareholders. I do not recall any of them running off with the money.
Quoting
Like the good ole folks at Enron, right? Please tell me I can trust big business to be responsible!!!
People who have created their own business know
a responsibility greater than the average employee.
a responsibility greater than the average employee.
Bright Spark
Posts: 324
July 16th, 2006, 11:53 PM
Quoting
Interesting that socialism cannot work without capitalism no? I will let you think about this.
I understand what you are saying Machjo, but to nit pick Canadian Capitalism, without looking at how many wnderful socialist like programs we have, and to nit pick Canadian "Imperalism" is more or less a joke!
Ok, Left Wing Liberals, Social Democrats and even sometimes socialists are respected in Canada, usually at least if they are moderates and don't want a socialist state. Very few of us do want a pure socialist state and the NDP, even the left wing of the NDP doesn't even have those hopes. But when you go onto the Communist Party of Canada, they are less respect but tolerated. But even to the Communist party of Canada which in itself is not a Orthadoxy of Marxism and more of a Social democratic party with teeth, the people and p[arties like the "New Socialist" group are a joke even to them. I know members of the communist party and they shake there heads at these trostskists too and often sound right wing compaired to these jokers.
Now ITN claimes to be a rightist with a communists heart or soul, fine, but to post such a nit picky easy which the Communist party of Canada itself would most likely find area's to laugh about in it is well absurd I'm sorry to say.
I highly doubt ITN can actually believe what is said in the eassy himself even though he has posted it and defended it. But comprise in political systems are needed. China knows this all too well itself now as the elite communist class in China turns into the elite capitalist class.
Canada in my eyes may not be perfect and I complain about it enough myself, but compaired to many other nations around the world I think Canada;s blend of Socialism and capitalism is healthy. Sure the Three main parties may fight over how much either way they wish to go but we all know the Conservatives just won't touch some socialist programs and the NDP would not makle more then a handfull of crown corperations. I think Ontario the only big dream the Ontario NDP have is to make Auto insurance public and perhaps make the energy public as well. Besides that I doubt we'd see any big changes.
Ok, Left Wing Liberals, Social Democrats and even sometimes socialists are respected in Canada, usually at least if they are moderates and don't want a socialist state. Very few of us do want a pure socialist state and the NDP, even the left wing of the NDP doesn't even have those hopes. But when you go onto the Communist Party of Canada, they are less respect but tolerated. But even to the Communist party of Canada which in itself is not a Orthadoxy of Marxism and more of a Social democratic party with teeth, the people and p[arties like the "New Socialist" group are a joke even to them. I know members of the communist party and they shake there heads at these trostskists too and often sound right wing compaired to these jokers.
Now ITN claimes to be a rightist with a communists heart or soul, fine, but to post such a nit picky easy which the Communist party of Canada itself would most likely find area's to laugh about in it is well absurd I'm sorry to say.
I highly doubt ITN can actually believe what is said in the eassy himself even though he has posted it and defended it. But comprise in political systems are needed. China knows this all too well itself now as the elite communist class in China turns into the elite capitalist class.
Canada in my eyes may not be perfect and I complain about it enough myself, but compaired to many other nations around the world I think Canada;s blend of Socialism and capitalism is healthy. Sure the Three main parties may fight over how much either way they wish to go but we all know the Conservatives just won't touch some socialist programs and the NDP would not makle more then a handfull of crown corperations. I think Ontario the only big dream the Ontario NDP have is to make Auto insurance public and perhaps make the energy public as well. Besides that I doubt we'd see any big changes.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,786
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
July 17th, 2006, 03:32 AM
and capitalism can not work without socialism. Look at the history of the indestrial revolution and the last 200 years of human history. Extreme capitalism breed a reaction, and that was social democracy, communism and socialism, all different brands of what we consider the left. If not for extreme capitalism I highly doubt socialism would have ever been thought of in the way it is seen today.
Oh and please don't try to make it sound like I support the so called "National Socialist" blend. As the socialism in facsism is by name only, and was only used as a device to gain worker and middle class support.
and capitalism can not work without socialism. Look at the history of the indestrial revolution and the last 200 years of human history. Extreme capitalism breed a reaction, and that was social democracy, communism and socialism, all different brands of what we consider the left. If not for extreme capitalism I highly doubt socialism would have ever been thought of in the way it is seen today.
Oh and please don't try to make it sound like I support the so called "National Socialist" blend. As the socialism in facsism is by name only, and was only used as a device to gain worker and middle class support.
Member
Posts: 194
July 17th, 2006, 01:48 PM
Machjo said:
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Machjo said:
Quote:
Hmmm... I don't know if the problem is with your eyes, reading skills, brain, connection between the eyes and the brain, or some combination of any or all of the above. But if you should read my statement again, you'll notice that I did state "obvious partisan prejudices aside". So yes, I agree with parts of the article, but not all of the article. So before you judge, it might have been wiser to ask with what parts I agree or not.
SaintLucifier is a hidious and well known troll who is likely to soon make Canadian Content the 4th or 5th forum he's been banned on.Quote:
SaintLucifer wrote:
Oh wonderful! We have a commie on our site.
Quote:
Machjo wrote:
"New Socialist Group"
Ha, now I understand why the word capitalism kept crawling up! Anyway, obvious partisan prejudices aside, it's a good article.
"New Socialist Group"
Ha, now I understand why the word capitalism kept crawling up! Anyway, obvious partisan prejudices aside, it's a good article.
Oh wonderful! We have a commie on our site.
Hmmm... I don't know if the problem is with your eyes, reading skills, brain, connection between the eyes and the brain, or some combination of any or all of the above. But if you should read my statement again, you'll notice that I did state "obvious partisan prejudices aside". So yes, I agree with parts of the article, but not all of the article. So before you judge, it might have been wiser to ask with what parts I agree or not.
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