Support for Seperatists down

[Jersay]

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Separatists in the French-speaking Canadian province of Quebec are losing popularity and there is no guarantee they would win an election if it were held today, according to a new poll on Wednesday.

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The CROP survey for the La Presse newspaper put backing for the separatist Parti Quebecois at 35 percent, down from 39 percent at the end of March. The governing Liberals rose slightly to 32 percent from 31 percent.

Quebec Liberal Premier Jean Charest does not have to call a provincial election until early 2008 but there is widespread speculation the province will go to the polls within the next year.

The Parti Quebecois -- which says that if it wins the election it will hold another referendum on sovereignty -- was as high as 47 percent in the polls last November after members elected Andre Boisclair as new leader.

Boisclair -- dogged by the admission that he had used cocaine when a member of the previous provincial government -- has kept a low profile and criticism of his performance is increasing.

A Leger Marketing poll for the Journal de Montreal newspaper on Tuesday put the Liberals at 37 percent public support and the Parti Quebecois at 33 percent.

The CROP poll of 1,001 people was carried out from June 12 to 25 and is considered to be accurate to within three percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060628...6JEGTUAugVvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-

 

[Simpleton]

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Separatists in the French-speaking Canadian province of Quebec are losing popularity and there is no guarantee they would win an election if it were held today, according to a new poll on Wednesday.

ADVERTISEMENT

The CROP survey for the La Presse newspaper put backing for the separatist Parti Quebecois at 35 percent, down from 39 percent at the end of March. The governing Liberals rose slightly to 32 percent from 31 percent.

Quebec Liberal Premier Jean Charest does not have to call a provincial election until early 2008 but there is widespread speculation the province will go to the polls within the next year.

The Parti Quebecois -- which says that if it wins the election it will hold another referendum on sovereignty -- was as high as 47 percent in the polls last November after members elected Andre Boisclair as new leader.

Boisclair -- dogged by the admission that he had used cocaine when a member of the previous provincial government -- has kept a low profile and criticism of his performance is increasing.

A Leger Marketing poll for the Journal de Montreal newspaper on Tuesday put the Liberals at 37 percent public support and the Parti Quebecois at 33 percent.

The CROP poll of 1,001 people was carried out from June 12 to 25 and is considered to be accurate to within three percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060628...6JEGTUAugVvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-

That would make sense. If support for separation is at a low, and the Parti Quebecois is promising a sovereignty referendum if elected, it would make sense for the governing Liberal party to call an election sooner rather than later. A Liberal majority win would eliminate the possibility of a referendum on separation for at least four to five years.

The risk of calling an election later, rather than sooner, is that events may transpire that would cause separatist sentiment to boom. I would speculate that Jean Charest would probably be looking to call an election sometime in the spring.

 

[Mogz]

"Fuck the seperatists, fuck them up their stupid asses!"

Tell me what movie that's from and you'll have gained my respect. Anyone? Bueller?

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

"*censored* the seperatists, *censored* them up their stupid asses!"

Tell me what movie that's from and you'll have gained my respect. Anyone? Bueller?

Well, you should go to lac st-jean or baie comeau, and tell them what you just said. :roll:

 

[FiveParadox]

I have no idea, Mogz, but it's a funny quote nonetheless. :lol:

But to the point of the thread, I am quite happy that the sovereigntist cause is losing its momentum in the Province of Québec. One can see this lost momentum in the House of Commons (before the adjournment, anyway); it appeared, during Question Period, that Gilles Duceppe, M.P., the Member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie and the Leader of the Bloc Québécois was at times grasping at straws.

 

[gc]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

"*censored* the seperatists, *censored* them up their stupid asses!"

Tell me what movie that's from and you'll have gained my respect. Anyone? Bueller?

I know what it's from, but only because I cheated and googled it. I won't ruin it for everyone else by posting the answer.

 

[Mogz]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

"*censored* the seperatists, *censored* them up their stupid asses!"

Tell me what movie that's from and you'll have gained my respect. Anyone? Bueller?

Well, you should go to lac st-jean or baie comeau, and tell them what you just said. :roll:

Like being face to face with a seperatist is going to stop me from telling them what a waste of space they are? When I did basic training in Quebec, I was banned from three bars (two in Montreal and one in St. Jean-sur-Richelieu) for both refering to Quebec as a "festering dung-heap, full of garlic eating ingrates", and for standing up and declaring that "all seperatists can gobble my knob". Of course, i'm sure that in the one in St. Jean, me telling the bouncer that his mom gave lousy head didn't help my situation....good times. So yeah, my point being? I don't care. What are they going to do? Beat me up? I've been in plenty of fights and gotten my ass kicked in my fair share. Besides, how dangerous can a seperatist be? What's he going to do? Wear a pair of bicycle shorts and call me a morceau de merde, all the whilst stamping his feet and occasionally muttering "a haw haw haw haw".....I totally forget what this post was about....oh right, me going to Frenchy-Central and telling them what I think. I did, and lived to tell about it. Any other ideals aeon?

 

[athabaska]

Don't confuse support for the BQ, PQ and sovereignty. There is a lot of crossover but there are many variables other than sovereignty that individuals vote on. The majority of Quebecers see themselves as Quebecers first and Canada is the larger political structure in which Quebec functions. They will support Canada as long as Canada works best for Quebec.

 

[Simpleton]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

I have no idea, Mogz, but it's a funny quote nonetheless. :lol:

But to the point of the thread, I am quite happy that the sovereigntist cause is losing its momentum in the Province of Québec. One can see this lost momentum in the House of Commons (before the adjournment, anyway); it appeared, during Question Period, that Gilles Duceppe, M.P., the Member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie and the Leader of the Bloc Québécois was at times grasping at straws.

Really? I rather prefer a strong Bloc in Ottawa, but a weak P.Q. in Quebec. My logic is that the Bloc brings good debate to the House, and it helps ensure that Canada will retain a minority Federal government.

I do not support Quebec separation, but I do support Quebec's right to defend their cultural heritage and language. I don't believe that any other national party has done a more effective job of doing that, than the Bloc Quebecois.

I also realize that the Bloc does not have the power to actually effect separation from the House of Commons. I realize that the provincial government does have the power and authority to do so, if given the mandate by the people of Quebec. Therefore, I prefer to see a weak Parti Quebecois in the province of Quebec.

 

[tamarin]

"but I do support Quebec's right to defend their cultural heritage and language."
I'm a big fan of Gilles Duceppe myself. But your quote infers English Canada also has a right to defend its cultural heritage and language. The former is certainly under assault. How do we, without the gift of a province devoted indefatigably to who we are and where we've come from, do that?

 

[athabaska]

Hopefully one day nationalism, Quebec, Canadian, etc, will go the way of the Do Do bird. With the Internet, travel,etc, in 50 years folks may look at nationalism and states the same way we look at kingdoms built on marriages or religious affiliations.

 

[Simpleton]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

"but I do support Quebec's right to defend their cultural heritage and language."
I'm a big fan of Gilles Duceppe myself. But your quote infers English Canada also has a right to defend its cultural heritage and language. The former is certainly under assault. How do we, without the gift of a province devoted indefatigably to who we are and where we've come from, do that?

English Canada is the majority and runs very little risk of erosion in the areas of culture and language. The opposite is very true in Quebec. Quebec faces a very real culture and language crisis, if the english majority is permitted to decide, with exclusivity, what is best for the people of Quebec.

The only people that can truly and effectively represent the interests of the French speaking people, are a united Bloc Quebecois. I have much doubt that anyone could accurately argue the converse.

There really is no inferrence that English speaking Canada should retain the same right. The simple fact of the matter is that english speaking Canada is the majority, and effectively asserts their culture and language in much the same way that a freight train would assert its will over a Volkswagon.

 

[FiveParadox]

Simpleton, on the point of the authority of the Government of the Province of Québec to separate from Canada, I would in fact argue that to remove a Province from the Confederation, one would need the consent of the House of Commons, resolutions of at least seven Legislative Assemblies of the Provinces, the Senate of Canada (unless the Senate does not resolve itself to do so within six months), and [of course] the Royal Assent. I don't think, in my view, that a declaration of independence of one of the Provinces would be lawful.

 

[Simpleton]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

Simpleton, on the point of the authority of the Government of the Province of Québec to separate from Canada, I would in fact argue that to remove a Province from the Confederation, one would need the consent of the House of Commons, resolutions of at least seven Legislative Assemblies of the Provinces, the Senate of Canada (unless the Senate does not resolve itself to do so within six months), and [of course] the Royal Assent. I don't think, in my view, that a declaration of independence of one of the Provinces would be lawful.

Would the laws of Canada even matter were Quebec to make a real move toward separation? To me, it would be similar to saying that a man could not separate from his wife without her permission. You are implying a level of ownership that does not actually exist.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no laws that would bar a provinces ability to unilaterally seek divorce from Canada. But most importantly, I do not know which powers the Canadian government could exercise, or, indeed, which resources it could utilize, to halt a legally mandated Quebec government from separating.

Surely, the Canadian government could call upon its share of the armed forces to keep Canada united, but wouldn't that just lead to a civil war?

 

[FiveParadox]

I would argue, Simpleton, that the Government of Canada would indeed have a duty to ensure that the Province of Québec would indeed remain just that — a Province of our one country. I have the right, under our Constitution Act, 1982, to go to and from Québec as I wish. Therefore, I would deem Québec to be just as much a part of my home as I would the Province of British Columbia.

If Québec is to wish to separate, then I had damned-well better be represented in the process, because that would be a part of my home being torn away. And if Québec were to seek to separate, then what of the dissenting voices in that Province? If, say, fifty-five per cent wish to separate, then do those forty-five percent of dissenting voices get swept away into a new country against their will?

 

[tamarin]

There really is no inferrence that English speaking Canada should retain the same right. The simple fact of the matter is that english speaking Canada is the majority, and effectively asserts their culture and language in much the same way that a freight train would assert its will over a Volkswagon.

Simpleton, English - as a language - is in the majority and likely, because of the language's international stature, to remain a real force in Canada. But English culture and its roots, its history will increasingly suffer as the years go on. The Ontario high school curriculum only mandates two history credits, far too little to help embed Canada's past in student consciousness, given that the elementary program only visits history in its closing grades and even there the subject battles with geography for coverage. I should think a Quebec student knows much more about Quebec history than an Ontarian knows about his.
Jack G's Who Killed Canadian History? is a wonderful backgrounder to this dilemma.

 

[Finder]

I never put too much into polls, but the numbers do indicate at least a slight drop. However a renewed referendum may gather force for support.

 

[Jersay]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

"*censored* the seperatists, *censored* them up their stupid asses!"

Tell me what movie that's from and you'll have gained my respect. Anyone? Bueller?

Well, you should go to lac st-jean or baie comeau, and tell them what you just said. :roll:

Like being face to face with a seperatist is going to stop me from telling them what a waste of space they are? When I did basic training in Quebec, I was banned from three bars (two in Montreal and one in St. Jean-sur-Richelieu) for both refering to Quebec as a "festering dung-heap, full of garlic eating ingrates", and for standing up and declaring that "all seperatists can gobble my knob". Of course, i'm sure that in the one in St. Jean, me telling the bouncer that his mom gave lousy head didn't help my situation....good times. So yeah, my point being? I don't care. What are they going to do? Beat me up? I've been in plenty of fights and gotten my ass kicked in my fair share. Besides, how dangerous can a seperatist be? What's he going to do? Wear a pair of bicycle shorts and call me a morceau de merde, all the whilst stamping his feet and occasionally muttering "a haw haw haw haw".....I totally forget what this post was about....oh right, me going to Frenchy-Central and telling them what I think. I did, and lived to tell about it. Any other ideals aeon?

Mogz I'm from quebec. And when I was a few years younger I wanted Quebec to seperate, mostly just to say I came from a foreign country. However, now i am glad that the poll shows that seperatism is going down.

 

[dekhqonbacha]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

Don't confuse support for the BQ, PQ and sovereignty. There is a lot of crossover but there are many variables other than sovereignty that individuals vote on. The majority of Quebecers see themselves as Quebecers first and Canada is the larger political structure in which Quebec functions. They will support Canada as long as Canada works best for Quebec.

I guess, we know the difference between them. And the thing that we know and you don't know that we khow is that as long as Libilars are in power there is not gonna be any kind of talk about referendum.

Basically, when PQ comes to power they will apoint the new referendum "as soon as possible."

 

[dekhqonbacha]

Re: RE: Support for Seperatists down

...

Mogz I'm from quebec.
...

Are you???

What city?