Grits' Forum Sparks Debate

[FiveParadox]

The Northern and Western Leadership Forum of the Liberal Party of Canada, of June 10, and the intriguing comments and arguments offered by the participants thereof, has sparked debate and discussion among the membership of the party and, indeed, Canada. The candidates responded to questions and debated with each other based on some key issues — but the most contentious topic seemed to be the present engagement in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.

The eleven persons who participated in the debate were:

• Mr. Michael Ignatieff, M.P.;
• The Honourable Bob Rae, P.C.;
• The Honourable Joseph Volpe, P.C., M.P.;
• Mr. Gerard Kennedy;
• The Honourable Stéphane Dion, P.C., M.P.;
• Ms. Martha Hall Findlay;
• The Honourable Scott Brison, P.C., M.P.;
• The Honourable Ken Dryden, P.C., M.P.;
• The Honourable Carolyn Bennett, P.C., M.P.;
• The Honourable Maurizio Bevilacqua, P.C., M.P.;
• The Honourable Hedy Fry, P.C., M.P.

I was quite impressed with both Mr. Brison, and Mr. Dion, in terms of the forum; I continue to lean toward Mr. Brison, but if the events of the future fora continue to push me toward Mr. Dion, then I woulud be quite happy to see him assume the leadership of the party. I think that Mr. Dion brings an interesting person into the race, rather than only the policy-end of things — he's funny, and I think he's someone that the people of Canada could relate to and grow affectionate of. I would be supportive of Mr. Brison, too; his comments in relation to the environment impressed me.

:?: Sources
1. Click here for the Web site of the Liberal Party of Canada.

 

[Colpy]

My opinion of Brison I have stated before, so I will spare you that.........

I like Dion as well. He is the only contender that has emerged from the Liberal gov't with his reputation intact, IMHO.

 

[FiveParadox]

Mr. Dion and Ms. Findlay were so cute debating with each other. I remember Mr. Dion stopping in mid-speech to give Ms. Findlay a turn to talk (he had been talking quite fast), saying something along the lines of "But it's your turn now!" His comments in relation to the Senate, and the environment, were of particular interest to me.

 

[Vicious]

RE: Grits' Forum Sparks D

I was watching for a bit when they were debating the extension of the Afghan mission. I wanted to ask how each of the leadership candiadates had voted in the house when the Liberal government decided to send Canadian troops to Afghanistan.

 

[MMMike]

Brison shouldn't even be considered as leader. Anybody who can change parties like they change their underwear is interested in power only for power's sake. Then there was his tipoff to his buddies in the banking industry about the income trust change.

Dion I like because of his strong focus on the environment. I'm sorry I missed the debate because I wanted a better look at Kennedy and his opinions.

wrt Afghanistan, I believe Brison & Iggy voted for while the rest voted against.

 

[Jersay]

Yeah I liked Brison's comment that on the New York Times about the vote it would say that Canada was withdrawing from Afghanistan which wasn't the case anyway.

So it decreased by value of him which was zero to begin with, to absolute zero.

 

[Vicious]

wrt Afghanistan, I believe Brison & Iggy voted for while the rest voted against.

Your speaking of the vote to extend the Afghanistan mission. I'm thinking back to the vote to send our troops there in the first place.

 

[Jersay]

I vote to get rid of the Liberal party and left-wingers can come to the NDP. The right-wingers go to the Cons, and the in betweens, just do that sit inbetween.

 

[FiveParadox]

Jersay[/i]]I vote to get rid of the Liberal party and left-wingers can come to the NDP. The right-wingers go to the Cons, and the in betweens, just do that sit inbetween.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Colpy]

wrt Afghanistan, I believe Brison & Iggy voted for while the rest voted against.

Your speaking of the vote to extend the Afghanistan mission. I'm thinking back to the vote to send our troops there in the first place.

There was no vote.

I guess they all abstained. 8)

 

[Vicious]

wrt Afghanistan, I believe Brison & Iggy voted for while the rest voted against.

Your speaking of the vote to extend the Afghanistan mission. I'm thinking back to the vote to send our troops there in the first place.

There was no vote.

I guess they all abstained. 8)

I was looking for one of the forum Liberal supporters to make that connection. I'm quite sure they did but ducked the issue in true Liberal tradition. It puts that part of the debate in a different light. Everyone I heard speak about Afghanistan (and I admit I didn't hear all candidates) started by complaining about such a short debate on the subject.

Did any of the candidates make mention of the fact the troops were sent in without a vote? Did any of them tell the whole truth?

 

[Graeme]

As a conservative I must vote for volpe, a house with 296 Conservative MPs and 12 NDP is ideal.

 

[FiveParadox]

Of course the Canadian Forces were sent to the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan without a vote; the command of the Forces is an executive prerogative of the Prime Minister of Canada and the Minister of National Defence, through the Commander-in-Chief in and over Canada. There is no requirement for the House of Commons to declare its opinion in relation to any such executive action on the part of the Crown of Canada.

The issue here is that, if The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada had indeed insisted upon drawing on the opinion of the Commons, he should have given an appropriate period of debate. The point is that if the Government of Canada insists on introducing a motion in relation to the presence of Canada in Afghanistan, then the motion should have been debated at length.

And Graeme, your efforts to skew the results of the vote on this survey are a disservice, and I would ask members to participate in surveys in a manner which would be in keeping with the spirit and intend of those surveys. I asked an honest question, as in which person one would be most likely to support — not to sabotage the party and, in fact, this thread.

 

[Canucklehead]

RE: Grits' Forum Sparks D

Welp, tough choices there but I have to go with either Rae or Kennedy since the Liberals need a serious injection of left-wingers after Martin's 'cleansing'. Rae is more centrist now and I believe would make a better senator than party leader but I'll take what I can get and he got me vote.

 

[Colpy]

I just watch on QP as some chubby Liberal idiot (his name escapes me.....French and pompous as hell) tried to call the Minister of Defense to task for wanting to buy excellent American lift aircraft off the shelf.......instead of doing it the Liberal way.......paying three times a reasonable price for second rate equipment as long as it can be built and serviced in Quebec...........

Damn am I ever glad these folks are out of power,

Long live the Conservative gov't.

 

[FiveParadox]

Colpy, I think that the issue that some members of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, such as The Honourable Ujjal Dosanjh, P.C., M.P., the Member for Vancouver South and the Defence Critic for the Official Opposition are raising the point that there should be thorough co-ordination with the Canadian Forces and, in particular, General Rick Hillier, C.M.M., M.S.C., C.D., the Chief of the Defence Staff, before making any purchases.

I share, and in fact concur with, their concerns. I think it is quite important to ensure that The Honourable Gordon O'Connor, P.C., M.P., the Member for Carleton—Mississippi Mills and the Minister of National Defence would not authorize any purchase for the Forces unless that purchase is indeed addressing the most urgent needs of the Forces, and that such purchases are not being made in haste for the appearance of taking action (I am not suggesting that there has been wrongdoing on the part of the Government of Canada, but rather we should ensure the integrity of any purchases made, and ensure that such purchases are indeed in the best interests of the Forces).

 

[athabaska]

Re: RE: Grits' Forum Sparks Debate

As a conservative I must vote for volpe, a house with 296 Conservative MPs and 12 NDP is ideal.

I voted Green in the last 2 federal elections. With Volpe as Liberal leader, throw in 30 BQ MPs into your equation. The rest Conservative with 9 or 10 NDP and 1 Geen (well, maybe a Green coming second somewhere)

Volpe is dead. Dion, in a quirky way, will not be able to stop Conservative momentum in Quebec. Dryden would be a disaster and really means 'none of the above' on the Liberal list.

 

[FiveParadox]

These scenarios are nothing, in comparison to the election of The Honourable Hedy Fry, P.C., M.P., the Member for Vancouver Centre. The House of Commons after such a disastrous and horrendous turn of events:

• The Conservative Party of Canada would take 30 seatsseats;
• The Liberal Party of Canada would take 1 seat;
• The New Democratic Party of Canada would take 3 seats;
• The Green Party of Canada would take 1 seat; and
• The Hedy Fry Assassination Coalition of Canada would take 273.

Good God, let us hope not.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Grits' Forum Sparks Debate

These scenarios are nothing, in comparison to the election of The Honourable Hedy Fry, P.C., M.P., the Member for Vancouver Centre. The House of Commons after such a disastrous and horrendous turn of events:

• The Conservative Party of Canada would take 30 seatsseats;
• The Liberal Party of Canada would take 1 seat;
• The New Democratic Party of Canada would take 3 seats;
• The Green Party of Canada would take 1 seat; and
• The Hedy Fry Assassination Coalition of Canada would take 273.

Good God, let us hope not.

Five, I must say that if Hedy Fry did win the leadership, the best one could hope for is her assassination.

However, if 273 seats went to the Hedy Fry Assassination Coalition of Canada (theme cry "Fry Hedy"), then her ultimate demise would actually be an Act of Parliament...............

Just get the thing enacted quickly, before the Supreme Court get hold of it.

 

[FiveParadox]

Oh, no worries, I would have that worked out, Colpy.

I would just dig into the constitution conventions, and convene the Senate as a court of law (since it has the same powers as the House of Lords at the time of Confederation, then there is the capacity to try persons outside of the framework of Statutes). She would be tried for high horrendous stupidity, and sentenced to death by being forced to listen to her own speeches.