Muslim leaders call for summit to fight extremism

[sanch]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060608.wmuslim0608/BNStory/Front

Muslim leaders called Thursday for a summit by the end of the month among all three levels of government and community leaders to address youth extremism.

"Muslim leaders from across Canada are coming forward today in order to extend a hand to all Canadians so we can face together the problems of radicalism," said Karl Nickner, executive director for the Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-CAN).

Most of the Muslim terror suspects taken into custody in co-ordinated raids in the Greater Toronto Area last weekend were in their late teens and early 20s. Five of them were young offenders.

The coalition of Muslim and Arab groups said the summit would address youth radicalization, facilitate integrations of newcomers, and explore how to make the RCMP, CSIS, other security forces more representative of the diversity in Canada.

"Let's remember that the victims of terrorism around the world and in Canada are equally Muslims and non-Muslims," Mr. Nickner said. "Terrorism, as many of you know, is antithetical to Islam. It is basically a perversion of its teachings. Terrorism is not a Muslim issue. Terrorism is a global issue."

 

[Jay]

and explore how to make the RCMP, CSIS, other security forces more representative of the diversity in Canada.

What does that mean?

 

[bluealberta]

and explore how to make the RCMP, CSIS, other security forces more representative of the diversity in Canada.

What does that mean?

You know what that means. I have a better idea. While it is true that every Muslim is not a terrorist, it is also virtually true that every terrorist is a Muslim, at least recently. So I suggest that the Muslim community first have a meeting amongst their leaders to find out why this is so, and to come up with some suggestions about how THEY can fix what is becoming more and more obvious is THEIR problem, which negatively affects US. As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Muslim. Yeah, right.

The Muslim community as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Muslims which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Muslim teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Muslim terrorists and terrorist acts.

 

[sanch]

and explore how to make the RCMP, CSIS, other security forces more representative of the diversity in Canada.

What does that mean?

Canada needs to become more like America in its approach to diversity and less pluralistic which is the European model.

There is an interesting article about the difference between how Europrean and the US treat immigrants. "America protects its welfare system but leaves its labour markets open while the EU protects its labour markest and leaves its welfare system open."

In the past Canada has embraced the EU model. With the EU model you have a lily white upper strata and ethnic enclaves boredering the cities where these is high unemployment. Believe it or not Jay the left created this system of inequality.

There needs to be better ethnic representation in all walks of Canadian life.

 

[Vicious]

RE: Muslim leaders call f

I believe is means that the Islamist Extremists aren't the problem, it's that the RCMP and CSIS agents aren't culturally sensitive.

 

[sanch]

As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Muslim. Yeah, right.

There are a few individuals saying this not the whole community. This is like taking a quote from darkbeaver and attributing it to all white people.

The Muslim community as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Muslims which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Muslim teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Muslim terrorists and terrorist acts.

They have actually been doing this and I have been posting where they have done it with links for the last few days.

 

[bluealberta]

As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Muslim. Yeah, right.

There are a few individuals saying this not the whole community. This is like taking a quote from darkbeaver and attributing it to all white people.

The Muslim community as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Muslims which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Muslim teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Muslim terrorists and terrorist acts.

They have actually been doing this and I have been posting where they have done it with links for the last few days.

There have been some condemnation, but not nearly enough. When they come out and publicy condemn bin Laden, and condemn suicide bombings that kill kids, when they come out and publicy condemn kidnappings and beheadings, and do this on a very vocal, loud, and continuous basis, then we can talk. Until then, this is a problem with the Muslim community which must be dealt with first by Muslims. To ask the rest of us to try and fix their problems is not going to work.

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Muslim leaders call f

I believe is means that the Islamist Extremists aren't the problem, it's that the RCMP and CSIS agents aren't culturally sensitive.

That's not what it means at all. They are saying that they want to work with the government and all concerns to combat extremism. But in order to be credible there has to be representation because young people need alternate role models. As I said above keeping minorities seperated is currently more a left and European strategy.

 

[Jay]

There needs to be better ethnic representation in all walks of Canadian life.

That carries certain implications with it though. Being picked for a job becaue you are this or that is supposed to be illegal, I thought.

 

[bluealberta]

There needs to be better ethnic representation in all walks of Canadian life.

That carries certain implications with it though. Being picked for a job becaue you are this or that is supposed to be illegal, I thought.

Not in the Canadian governmental system of bureacracy. I know. I work in this system. A lot of people are picked because of ethnic or language quotas.

 

[sanch]

There have been some condemnation, but not nearly enough. When they come out and publicy condemn bin Laden, and condemn suicide bombings that kill kids, when they come out and publicy condemn kidnappings and beheadings, and do this on a very vocal, loud, and continuous basis, then we can talk. Until then, this is a problem with the Muslim community which must be dealt with first by Muslims. To ask the rest of us to try and fix their problems is not going to work.

They say they have been condemning this for the last 5 years. For the record I was until recently just as skeptical about moderate Muslims having made public statements as you are. I have been noticing though that the Canadian press is doing little to present their views.

 

[bluealberta]

There have been some condemnation, but not nearly enough. When they come out and publicy condemn bin Laden, and condemn suicide bombings that kill kids, when they come out and publicy condemn kidnappings and beheadings, and do this on a very vocal, loud, and continuous basis, then we can talk. Until then, this is a problem with the Muslim community which must be dealt with first by Muslims. To ask the rest of us to try and fix their problems is not going to work.

They say they have been condemning this for the last 5 years. For the record I was until recently just as skeptical about moderate Muslims having made public statements as you are. I have been noticing though that the Canadian press is doing little to present their views.

If they are presenting the message, but it is not getting out, then they have to make sure it is. That may sound a bit lazy, but if we do not know they have a message, how can we make the media get it out? They could stage demonstrations, they could hold public rallies, they could do all sorts of things that would have to draw media attention.

 

[Vicious]

Re: RE: Muslim leaders call f

I believe is means that the Islamist Extremists aren't the problem, it's that the RCMP and CSIS agents aren't culturally sensitive.

That's not what it means at all. They are saying that they want to work with the government and all concerns to combat extremism. But in order to be credible there has to be representation because young people need alternate role models. As I said above keeping minorities seperated is currently more a left and European strategy.

and explore how to make the RCMP, CSIS, other security forces more representative of the diversity in Canada.

I don't think I misunderstood. It sounds alot like the RCMP and CSIS should be made to be more representative of the diversity in Canada. As in if yoiu have more Muslims in the RCMP and CSIS this terrorism wouldn't be happening.

I do agree with the point about integration. Personally I think the model we should be promoting is 'Be your religion and culture in you home and places of worship, but be Canadian on the streets'.

I know, I'll be labelled all sorts of nasty things for that one.

 

[gc]

You know what that means. I have a better idea. While it is true that every Muslim is not a terrorist, it is also virtually true that every terrorist is a Muslim, at least recently. So I suggest that the Muslim community first have a meeting amongst their leaders to find out why this is so, and to come up with some suggestions about how THEY can fix what is becoming more and more obvious is THEIR problem, which negatively affects US. As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Muslim. Yeah, right.

The Muslim community as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Muslims which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Muslim teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Muslim terrorists and terrorist acts.

While it is true that every Human is not a terrorist, it is also virtually true that every terrorist is a Human, at least recently. So I suggest that the Humans first have a meeting amongst their leaders to find out why this is so, and to come up with some suggestions about how THEY can fix what is becoming more and more obvious is THEIR problem, which negatively affects US. As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Human. Yeah, right.

The Humans as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Humans which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Human teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Human terrorists and terrorist acts.

 

[sanch]

If they are presenting the message, but it is not getting out, then they have to make sure it is. That may sound a bit lazy, but if we do not know they have a message, how can we make the media get it out? They could stage demonstrations, they could hold public rallies, they could do all sorts of things that would have to draw media attention.

I would recommend While Europe Slept: How Radical islam is Destroying the West from Within by Bruce Bawer. Bawer also wrote A Place at the Table about Gays and Stealing Jesus about Christian fundamentalism. He specializes in extremism and its causes.

The press is not democractic and represents the dominant group. Also protests and parades have to be open and there would be extremists there and that is the message that would be picked up. I am not really impressed with the Canadian press. I've been to some of their parties and can see why it may be difficult to write clear copy in the morning.

 

[sanch]

I don't think I misunderstood. It sounds alot like the RCMP and CSIS should be made to be more representative of the diversity in Canada. As in if yoiu have more Muslims in the RCMP and CSIS this terrorism wouldn't be happening.

Sid I didn't pick up the causality referred to in the last sentence. I see what they are suggesting as a series of steps which includes more vigilant community monitoring and so they are in effect blaming themselves as well.

 

[Just the Facts]

You know what that means. I have a better idea. While it is true that every Muslim is not a terrorist, it is also virtually true that every terrorist is a Muslim, at least recently. So I suggest that the Muslim community first have a meeting amongst their leaders to find out why this is so, and to come up with some suggestions about how THEY can fix what is becoming more and more obvious is THEIR problem, which negatively affects US. As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Muslim. Yeah, right.

The Muslim community as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Muslims which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Muslim teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Muslim terrorists and terrorist acts.

While it is true that every Human is not a terrorist, it is also virtually true that every terrorist is a Human, at least recently. So I suggest that the Humans first have a meeting amongst their leaders to find out why this is so, and to come up with some suggestions about how THEY can fix what is becoming more and more obvious is THEIR problem, which negatively affects US. As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Human. Yeah, right.

The Humans as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Humans which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Human teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Human terrorists and terrorist acts.

Don't tell me, you're that cow that just won the Certified Angus Beef designation, right?

 

[bluealberta]

You know what that means. I have a better idea. While it is true that every Muslim is not a terrorist, it is also virtually true that every terrorist is a Muslim, at least recently. So I suggest that the Muslim community first have a meeting amongst their leaders to find out why this is so, and to come up with some suggestions about how THEY can fix what is becoming more and more obvious is THEIR problem, which negatively affects US. As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Muslim. Yeah, right.

The Muslim community as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Muslims which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Muslim teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Muslim terrorists and terrorist acts.

While it is true that every Human is not a terrorist, it is also virtually true that every terrorist is a Human, at least recently. So I suggest that the Humans first have a meeting amongst their leaders to find out why this is so, and to come up with some suggestions about how THEY can fix what is becoming more and more obvious is THEIR problem, which negatively affects US. As a first suggestion, they could stop with comments that basically say that after years of investigation, the only reason the Toronto 17 were picked up was because they were Human. Yeah, right.

The Humans as a duty, now more than ever, to publicly, loudly, and continuously denounce all actions by Humans which are construed to be terrorist acts. Simply saying that the ones picked up do not reflect Human teachings is no longer acceptable. They must do this, first, before anything else will work. They must condemn strongly and fully all Human terrorists and terrorist acts.

That is just plain stupid. What is your point? Or do you honestly thnk that it is a bad thing to say that Muslims are causing terrorists acts to happen? Please tell me, what who caused the last terrorist act in North America, and what religious background did the Toronto 17 have? You can deny facts and reality all you want, but there is a very simple fact in all this. Of course I do not think that all Muslims are terrorists, far from it. But tell me who has caused the most terrorist acts in the last 5 - 10 years?

 

[Vicious]

I don't think I misunderstood. It sounds alot like the RCMP and CSIS should be made to be more representative of the diversity in Canada. As in if yoiu have more Muslims in the RCMP and CSIS this terrorism wouldn't be happening.

Sid I didn't pick up the causality referred to in the last sentence. I see what they are suggesting as a series of steps which includes more vigilant community monitoring and so they are in effect blaming themselves as well.

It's the way I read it. I just caught the end of a cpac in studio interview where two representatives of the muslim community were discussing this very topic. I may have missed the part where they outlined all the fine work the Muslim communities were doing to ensure Muslims were well integrated into Canadian society and the youth programs that they have launched to ensure that Muslim youth are taught the value of diversity and acceptance of other cultures. I may have missed it but really I doubt that they offered up anything of the like. What I did catch was an suggestion they made that the RCMP and other law enforcement agencies be given more sensitivity training with a goal of reducing the number of complaints about the RCMP from the Muslim community.

I thought it was very big of them to take a problem firmly rooted in the Muslim community and place it squarely on the shoulders of the RCMP.

I also caught alot of talk about having a summit where the representatives of the Muslim community would sit down with Stephen Harper, Dalton McGuinty and others and hammer out some programs and seminars for Muslim youth. I wonder how many tax dollars they will request to fund these programs. I think it might be useful and a good faith gesture for them to fund these out of their own pockets?

 

[gc]

That is just plain stupid. What is your point? Or do you honestly thnk that it is a bad thing to say that Muslims are causing terrorists acts to happen? Please tell me, what who caused the last terrorist act in North America, and what religious background did the Toronto 17 have? You can deny facts and reality all you want, but there is a very simple fact in all this. Of course I do not think that all Muslims are terrorists, far from it. But tell me who has caused the most terrorist acts in the last 5 - 10 years?

It was a joke, lighten up :wink:

It is not stupid, and I have not denied any facts or reality. Everything I said is fact. The purpose was to think about it from a different point of view. All I'm saying is that while many terrorist have Islam in common, what they also have in common is that they are Human. Are you denying that terrorists are human?