Sorry Mr. John Chuckman, Afghanistan is our war.

Graeme

Electoral Member
Jun 5, 2006
349
1
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This is in response to the article Sorry Mr. Prime Minister, Afghanistan is not our war:http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/article_807.html

It always disheartens me to hear people speak words such as those in this article. As if we are somehow isolated from the world and that we do not have a duty to at least try and defend not only our way of life, but lives of those not so fortunate. To believe that we are living in some world of mystical ideals, where the bad guys play by the rules and the good guys need only ask politely for the bad guys to give themselves up. It is, quite frankly, blissfully ignorant suicide.

I am with the P.M., as well as many other MPs, both liberals and conservatives (although no NDP), that do not really understand "Canadians who feel ardently that their country's soldiers should not be involved in Afghanistan."

Ducking under the covers never solves anything, if you don't think there is a problem to be solved maybe you should open your eyes. It is a far more prominent problem with far more evidence than human caused global warming.

I love this quote
John Chuckman said:
"unless you believe one reference in a recording of bin Laden mentioning Canada along with other countries. That recording, along with other post-invasion recordings, was almost certainly a CIA fraud, for Osama bin Laden had to be killed in the heavy bombing of his mountain redoubt."

First, CIA fraud, on the aljazeera media network, REALLY!! I have some little green men from another planet to tell you about. Where is your proof that the CIA would have had anything to do with any of the post-invasion recordings?? And why in Gods name would the terrorists go along with this whole CIA scam if it bettered there position to have bin Laden dead????? Hell, don't you think they would lie about it. Talk about your ill-thought through theories, it doesn't even make sense for the CIA to fake that he is alive.

John Chuckman said:
"
Even if you do not believe that bin Laden is dead, what is beyond question is that American activities in Afghanistan and Iraq are building a vast reservoir of resentments and a training school for future terrorists. "

Next, how is this even a question never mind beyond question. Are you really trying to say that there were less terrorist cells before the US and Brittan quashed al Qaeda than there are now. Or less groups of oppressive regimes in Iraq. Really, you've got to be kidding me.


John Chuckman said:
The previous government's making an under-the-table deal with Bush to place Canadian troops in Afghanistan surely does not make it our war.

No, you're right, what makes it our war is

1.) Afghanistan was a safe haven for terrorist cells, and is still a place where extremists congregate. Which makes the whole world an unsafe place.

2.) They attacked our allies and in my books that is akin to attacking us. I would always stick up for a friend if someone was attacking him or her, and if you wouldn't than you are completely dishonorable.

3.) Lives of young people would be lost in far greater numbers if our troops were not there keeping the peace. Even if keeping the peace sometimes looks the same as war.

John Chuckman said:
Yet no greater vice to democracy can exist than a government's committing the lives of young people and the whole nation's reputation to war without any consultation or debate.

There has been much consultation and debate among those whose heads it is on to make these decisions. Do not believe for a second this task was taken upon with-out ample consideration for the consequences.

Don't make blind arguments such as:
John Chuckman said:
If you believe in democratic values, as you claim, you cannot support such behavior.
Where is your proof or for that matter any substantial argument. You know you really sound like an NDP supporter Mr. Joe Comartin, I mean John Chuckman. It is not the place of the people or the house to Vote on everything, especially on decisions which must be made as quickly and decisively as possible. Many things require a leader to command and not to ask. Democracy decides who that leader will be.

I for one support our troops in Afghanistan and I support the cause for which they are fighting and regretfully dying.

I am proud to say I support Canada and our democracy and realize that sometimes to protect the things we truly hold dear, sacrifices must be made, and that includes death.

You could not make such a statement believing what is stated in that article. And that is why I feel disheartened by those words.

Graeme O'Brien : www.ourtake.net
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
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Vancouver, BC
Welcome to Canadian¹ Content, Graeme!

I am happy to see that you are getting right into the deep end of things, through posting such an elaborate opinion as this on such a contentious issue in Canada. If ever you need anything, I would be happy to assist you, or you can contact one of the Administrators or Moderators.

:arrow: Topic at Hand

I would agree with the above suggestion that the House of Commons need not vote on everything. Where the House wishes to express an opinion, there are multiple opportunities to do so through opposition motions, in the event that the Government of Canada does not agree. In any case, the command of the Canadian Forces is an executive, and not a legislative, function of government. To that end, it is the decision of the executive Cabinet, a committee of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, to exercise these functions through the representative of Her Majesty the Queen of Canada.

What does this mean? More or less, the command of the Forces is a prerogative of the Prime Minister of Canada and the Minister of National Defense — not one of the House of Commons, the Senate, or any combination of both. Command of the Forces is an executive prerogative.

Moreover, it should be noted that Canada is indeed engaged in a mission in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (I hesitate to use the term "war", since our present Government doesn't consider Canada to be "at war" with opposition forces in Afghanistan). We have been invited by His Excellency Hamid Karzai, the President of Afghanistan to have a presence and a part to play in the restoration of peace and order in Afghanistan, and we should be proud to have such a place there. It would tarnish the honour of the Crown of Canada to back out of that mission prematurely.

:!: Revision : (1) Corrected a formatting error.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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here's some insight into what's going to be making ISAF tick for the next 10 years

NATO to double number of troops in Afghanistan


KABUL, Afghanistan -- The number of foreign troops in southern Afghanistan will double this summer, and they will focus more on rebuilding the country instead of just fighting insurgents, the head of the NATO mission said Sunday.

Lt. Gen. David Richards said the number of battalions would increase from two to four when the force takes over security from the U.S.-led coalition in the south, most likely late next month. He estimated the number of troops would go from about 3,000 to 6,000.

Richards said it is essential to win the support of Afghans, by giving them roads, power and water. He also said foreign troops must stop driving so quickly and sometimes inconsiderately in Afghanistan -- a technique used to avoid suicide bombers and roadside bombs.

"We cannot go on alienating people in a way that I know is happening," he said.

yip yip. that and a few hundred chocolate bars and you'll be greeted as liberators.

the longer this drags out the more I see it hasn't been thought out. no wonder the British and Dutch are late for the party.
 

Graeme

Electoral Member
Jun 5, 2006
349
1
18
well it isn't as if they have some crystal ball and know exactly what they will need 6 months from now never mind 2 or 10 years.

You can't really plan much more than they have when there are SOO many variables.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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au contraire there's one element that will be essential. I'm no expert in war history but it occurs to me its the one thing that's ever prevailed against opposing forces in a guerilla-style war. Unfortunately from what I can discern it continually gets frighteningly short shrift by the rats that are running the ship. Its tough to tell why from here but its probably from a combination of not wanting to draw attention to it and the fact that as far as specializations go supplying it is really none of the military's business.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
RE: Sorry Mr. John Chuckm

It does not matter what effort is poured into Afghanistan the coalition cannot win except by the extermination of opposition, afterall the geography means everything the people mean nothing. Chocolate bars and cluster bombs, it's just good business.