30% of Afghan detainees handed over by Canadians tortured

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Independent Palestine
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - Canadian soldiers have intervened at least twice to prevent the summary execution of Taliban suspects captured on operations with the Afghan army, highlighting the moral murk confronting troops caught between government policy and the brutality of a still-violent country.

And the local representative of Afghanistan's independent human rights commission suspects that nearly a third of prisoners handed over by Canadians are abused and even tortured in Afghan jails.

Afghan authorities have "two kinds of attitudes," said Abdul Noorzai of the Kandahar office of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

"When they come into my office, they behave very officially," he said. "When they go back to their offices they behave in another way."

Noorzai estimates human rights procedures are violated for about 30 per cent of prisoners handed over to Afghan authorities. He said he is aware of violations that included beatings and torture.

"(Prisoners) were hit by police," he said, adding his organization has pictures of the victims. "They were fully hit. (Their) whole body was injured."

Canadian soldiers have stepped in to prevent even worse violations in the field.

In early April, Canadians captured a Taliban soldier while on patrol in the Sangin area.

"We opened up his jacket and found letters and documents inside," a combat soldier, who did not want to identified, told The Canadian Press.

"They were signed by Taliban commanders, recommending him to village elders wherever he was going. They said he should be treated good because he had proven his bravery by killing, I think it was eight Afghan army soldiers."

"The Afghan army guys went nuts," said a second soldier, also on the condition of anonymity.

"They were furious. They wanted to shoot this guy on the spot and we had to stop them."

While captured suspects are supposed to be handed over to the Afghans, the Canadians held on to this detainee until he could be delivered safely later to other officials.

A similar situation occurred last week in the Panjwai district, the scene of intense fighting since the middle of May.

After a raid at a compound where a Canadian vehicle had been ambushed the day before, Afghan soldiers wanted to kill a detainee on the spot.

Again, the Canadians held the prisoner until they could turn him over to cooler Afghan heads.

An agreement signed with the Afghan government Dec. 18 by Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier binds Canada to hand prisoners over to local authorities - either the Afghan police or the army.

Britain and the Netherlands are also obliged to hand over suspected militants to local authorities, while the United States is not.

Military officials and politicians say coalition forces are in Afghanistan at the invitation of the Afghan government. The detainees are Afghans, captured on Afghan soil, and are the responsibility of the national government.

"We have a firm agreement with the Afghan government and that agreement protects Canada's obligation (and) Canada's international obligations," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in Montreal on Friday. "Obviously we will stay in touch with Afghan authorities to ensure that that agreement is being honoured."

Officials say the International Committee of the Red Cross ensures prisoners are treated properly. The Canadian agreement stipulates that prisoners handed over to Afghans must be allowed visits "at any time" by the Red Cross.

Canadian and Afghan authorities must also maintain written records for all detainees and make them available to the Red Cross. The Dutch agreement gives its officers and diplomats the further right to check on the condition of detainees they originally captured.

But Canada is also obliged under international law to ensure detainees are protected against torture and summary execution, even after they are transferred to Afghan custody.

Noorzai, whose organization was created by the international community at the Bonn Agreement that helped lead to today's Afghan government, says his office gets its information from its own investigations and reports from Afghan police.

He estimates there are about 200 Taliban prisoners in his country's jails.

He emphasizes that most Afghan authorities follow proper procedures for detainees.

But Noorzai said people who have known only war for 30 years need time to learn the ways of law and order.

"It can't be changed overnight," he said.

"It took a long time to make them warriors. It's taking a long time to make great human beings."

-

Murray Brewster was CP's reporter in Kandahar until early May, when he was relieved by Bob Weber.

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=w060251A.xml
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
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Edmonton
RE: 30% of Afghan detaine

Terrorizing the population? You do realize the people they're "terrorizing" are militants who's chief goal is the resurgence of the Taliban? Something the people of Afghanistan DON'T want. Perhaps, and this is just an idea, you could actually get informed on the situation before you post? Then again, maybe it's just me.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
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Backwater, Ontario.
Re: 30% of Afghan detainees handed over by Canadians torture

:roll: How come they're only torturing 30% :?:

I suppose there's only 24 hours in a day, and torturing takes time.

:?
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
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Independent Palestine
Re: 30% of Afghan detainees handed over by Canadians torture

Mogz, the agreement was to go for Geneva convention to protect militants under the Geneva convention. And can you guarantee that every single detainee picked up is a militant. Yo can't.
 

dekhqonbacha

Electoral Member
Apr 30, 2006
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Re: RE: 30% of Afghan detaine

Mogz said:
Terrorizing the population? You do realize the people they're "terrorizing" are militants who's chief goal is the resurgence of the Taliban? Something the people of Afghanistan DON'T want. Perhaps, and this is just an idea, you could actually get informed on the situation before you post? Then again, maybe it's just me.

That's just you.

Even the militans, they are human being. Some of them give up fight and renonce. If they are tortured, they will see that there is no point to give up to the governement.

How do we know that the people who are arrested are only militants. Some people look like. Or some others might have had a conversation with militans accidently. If someone witnesses that they are militans and police tortures them, why would they cooporate with police again.

From the post I got that new governemt literally replaced the Taliban.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
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Independent Palestine
Re: 30% of Afghan detainees handed over by Canadians torture

That's right. Replace a brutal regime with another brutal regime that tortures and kills people. Well I guess that is okay because it is in the name of democracy.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Re: 30% of Afghan detainees handed over by Canadians torture

HEY - whats up?
I have been hearing that Canada turns its Afghan prisoners over to the Americans. I guess it is some of both, in reality.

Here is a link and quotes from Bill Blakie's report, who went there in nov 2005:
In January 2002, Canadian soldiers captured suspected Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan and handed them over to U.S. forces.

turning over of detainees in Afghanistan to Americans for possible torture or forms of imprisonment that violate the Geneva Convention.


Canadians may be concerned with the role of our forces in Afghanistan. I think we would find more of a consensus with respect to the concern that Canadian soldiers, by turning over people that they detain to Americans in this environment, are in violation of agreements that we have signed and in violation of the values that Canadians like to think our government holds.

http://tinyurl.com/mqf78

ok, maybe this explains it:
Early in the Afghan war, Canadian troops handed over prisoners to the U.S., which raised concerns....
Canada changed its policy, and started handing over prisoners to Afghan authorities, whose prison facilities have been described as poor by some human rights bodies.
http://tinyurl.com/s5bmc
-scroll down half-way to "The Question of Prisoners of War" section

Its dispicable and cynical of Canada's efforts to contain terrorism by allowing the combattants to be tortured. That can only raise the ire of Arabs everywhere, but esp. we will see more Toronto Fertilizer bombers because of torture.
 

fuflans

Electoral Member
May 24, 2006
155
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Aotearoa
Re: 30% of Afghan detainees handed over by Canadians torture

Karlin said:
HEY - whats up?
I have been hearing that Canada turns its Afghan prisoners over to the Americans. I guess it is some of both, in reality.

The links that you provided say that the Canadians DON'T hand prisoners over to the Americans anymore.

Anyway, it's kind of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. You can't hand them over to the Afghans because they may be tortured and executed, but you can't hand them over to the Americans because people will freak out and shriek about 'Abu Gharib' etc.

The article mentions the Dutch method of visiting captured prisoners. I wonder how well this actually works and also if the Red Cross and Crescent interventions make any difference at all to the prisoners' well being. If they don't make a difference is it because of political interference?
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
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Independent Palestine
Re: 30% of Afghan detainees handed over by Canadians torture

I think the Dutch and the Red Cross work because they can provide pressure on the government in question and applying pressure is a very powerful weapon.

That is why the U.N didn't go into Guantanemo because they wouldn't be able to question detainees fully and then apply pressure where necessary.
 

fuflans

Electoral Member
May 24, 2006
155
0
16
Aotearoa
RE: 30% of Afghan detainees handed over by Canadians torture

Well, I guess they are failing to a certain extent if '30%' of the prisoners are being abused. Maybe this will change now that it's out in the open.