Unlocking a locked-in Pension (RRSP)

August 27th, 2007, 05:11 PM

Hi Kreskin;
Quote ["What would happen to pension funds if everyone was given the opportunity to withdraw their commuted value in cash?

Some of these locked-in accounts are funded by someone other than the owner. They elected to join the pension fund under the conditions presented when they joined. Why did they elect to join rather than simply fund their own RSP instead? "]

When funds were unlocked in Saskatchewan , Manitoba , and Alberta . The world dident come to a end . There are still pension plans. It would be plain stupid to withdraw all their funds and have to pay a huge tax pay out.
also people right now in Defined benefit plans can when they leave their job take the funds out of the pension and transfer it into a locked in RRSP.

What this is all about is about having control of your own pension, Not about draining the fund.

I am glad you said some of these funds are funded by someone other then the owner. (( Some is the key word. There are hundreds of thousands of Defined contribution plans that are locked in and were funded 50% + by the owner. Besides all Pension funds are a benefit to keep the employee retained and is a negotiated benefit the same as Dental etc. It is just deferred until retirement.

When a Person leaves employment 2 things can happen. in a defined benefit plan if the person has the required amount of time in he/she can stay with the Company plan if they wish or in some cases can have the money transferred into a locked in fund.
In this day and age many people hold down 5 or more jobs. When they leave these jobs many are forced to transfer their pension into a LIRA. This money is no longer tied to the Company pension

I could keep going on and on about different circumstances that we have run into but I just dont have the time.

You also said . Why dont they join a regular RSP instead?
Many of us that have pension plans from years back were not given the correct information about our pension plans or we would have.

It is too late when you are at retirement and then you are told " oh no the person that told you your plan became unlocked at 65 was wrong!! Your plan doesn't become unlocked until you are 90 years old. Up until then you can only basically draw on the interest not the Principle "

The Best way to straighten out this Mess is to unlock all Provincial plans and Federal Plans.
It is all Your Money ,and why should some government tell you what you can do with it when they cant even look after the tax payers money. There is scandal after scandal of how the government is using tax payers money

Regards Bill C

August 27th, 2007, 06:12 PM

Bill, I don't disagree with you but Mr. Financial Planner (CFP) didn't negotiate anyone's pension rules prior to signing up.

What are your thoughts on this? Someone is one year into their defined benefit pension. Do you support them having the ability to control their own finances by withdrawing all of it in one lump sum?

August 27th, 2007, 09:28 PM

Hi Kreskin:

Yes I know that the CFP dident negotiate any ones pension rules.
What Ken was trying to get across to CFP's was to inform their clients of some pitfalls in pension plans.
We know that there are some very Knowledgeable CFP's that inform the clients fully but there are also many that dont seem to know as much as they should.
I have had at least 7 or 8 that have e-mailed me them selves and said that they dident realize these pensions did not come unlocked at 65. Others of our group have also run into this.
We have CFP's that are working to help us achieve this unlocking .
I was given misinformation in my own pension plan by a very large financle institution.
We are trying to get the message out to all pension holders and planers. "" You may be in for a shock when you retire !! Your pension is not unlocked at 65.

In answer to your second question.

If a person was in a defined benefit plan for one year , they would not be able to unlock their money unless they were already retireing.

What we are asking for is pensions be unlocked at 55 years of age or your earlier retirement date, Not before (( this meaning unlocked when you retire)) if You are in a company Defined Benefit plan and You feel that it would be better to stay in . You have the option of staying in.

People that end up with 5 or6 LIRA's at retirement would be able to transfer them into a RRIF and then decide how much they wish to pay them selves each year. ((not have the Government tell you))
As I have said this is your own money.

I hope I have kind of explained it but if not feel free to ask any more questions and I will try and answer.

Take Care Bill Costello PS this is in no way a attack on financle planers

August 27th, 2007, 09:31 PM

This was a letter sent out to Dalton McGuinty in July . We have received a response which will follow

Good evening Mr. McGuinty,

The following e-mail with the attached letter was sent to Mr. Jim Bradley earlier this evening.

Would you please inform me ... and the many other seniors ... with whom I network daily across this province . why it is that you (the Liberal Party) are only willing to permit locked-in pension holders a one-time 25% unlocking privilege ... with total unlocking having to wait until age 90?

This is extremely disconcerting when one considers the following:

(a) members of the Liberal Party (some still elected members of the Legislature) belong to the group of 61 special MPPs who received totally unlocked pensions . courtesy of Bill 27 (An Act To Amend The Pension Benefits Act And The MPPs Pension Act)... full access being available at age 55

(b) you were quoted in the Toronto Star on February 27, 2002 Wednesday Ontario Edition as having said about Bill 27 ... "What we need here is an independent public inquiry that could be presided over by the provincial auditor or a judge ... This nothing short of a scandal"

(c) Michael Bryant spoke the following words about Bill 27 in the Legislature on Mon 13 Dec 1999 ... quote taken from the Legislative Hansard ... " a bill that blatantly gives opportunities to members of provincial Parliament that do not exist for the rest of the population. That is the height of the appearance of inequity, the height of the appearance of injustice and the height of hypocrisy.......... obviously we cannot support an act which treats MPPs in a favourable manner with respect to their remuneration from pension benefits, in a more beneficial way than the rest of the public.......... Are we going to sit in opposition and vote in favour of an act which contains provisions that are repugnant? No."

Mr. McGuinty ... both you and Mr. Bryant spoke the above words while your Party was in opposition. However, given that you have now been in power since 2003, your proposed 25% unlocking option to Ontarians holding locked-in pension plans, offered up just before the October 2007, election is highly suspect.

Please explain to the electorate. This includes seniors who are presently labouring under the confines of locked-in pensions ... trying to survive on the meagre withdrawals allowed of their own money by your government ... and those Ontarians who are years away from drawing pension benefits ... who are already participating in one ... but as is becoming painfully obvious . are not yet aware of the disastrous consequences awaiting them when they do reach retirement age.

PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW YOUR LIBERAL PARTY CAN ONLY OFFER UP A ONE-TIME, 25% UNLOCKING PRIVILEGE TO ORDINARY ONTARIANS ... WHEN MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN PARTY ... SOME OF THEM STILL SITTING AS ELECTED MPPs ... HAVE TOTAL, 100 %, UNFETTERED ACCESS TO THEIR PREVIOUSLY LOCKED-IN PENSIONS ... SUCH PRIVILEGE PAID FOR BY THE ONTARIO TAXPAYER.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS ALL BEING ... "NOTHING SHORT OF A SCANDAL" ... OR BEING ... "REPUGNANT"?

I await your answer ... seniors across this province await your answer.

Regards,
Kenneth Elliott

August 28th, 2007, 06:40 PM

This is Daltons Response

Thanks for your online message regarding locked-in retirement pensions.
I'm always interested in hearing about the things that matter most to
Ontarians.


Our government recognizes that Ontario's seniors have made and continue
to make invaluable contributions to our province's strength and
prosperity. Communities across Ontario are reaping the benefits of the
wisdom, knowledge and expertise of seniors. My colleagues and I believe
that all our seniors deserve to enjoy the best possible quality of life
and to be treated with the dignity and respect they have earned.


That is why to help provide security for seniors, we announced in our
2007 Ontario Budget that we are proposing to give seniors enhanced
access to their locked-in accounts, which originate with funds
transferred from pension plans.


As your comments would also be of interest to the Honourable Greg
Sorbara, Minister of Finance, I have passed on a copy of your
correspondence to him for his information.

Thanks again for contacting me. Your input is always welcome. My
colleagues and I look forward to our continued journey with you and your
fellow Ontarians to build a healthier, more prosperous Ontario.

Dalton McGuinty
Premier of Ontario

c: The Honourable Greg Sorbara

August 30th, 2007, 08:18 PM

Response to Dalton

Mr. McGuinty,

Your response below is an affront of magnanimous proportions to all seniors
in this province who hold Locked-In pension accounts.

I just flat out ... don't believe you, Mr. McGuinty ... "My colleagues and
I believe that all our seniors deserve to enjoy the best possible quality of
life and to be treated with the dignity and respect they have earned."

Let the facts speak for themselves. Locked-In pensioners are denied but a
measly pittance of their own pension monies (per annum) while living ... but
on death the same funds that were denied during life are now suddenly
UNLOCKED for one purpose only ... so that you can RAPE and PILLAGE those
untouched pension monies through exorbitant estate taxation!

Locked-In pensions are INDEFENSIBLE, except that all MPPs have their
pensions in a similar format They are further INDEFENSIBLE, given the
extraordinary, exclusive financial privilege of Bill 27 given to 61 special
MPPs (of all party affiliations).

Why don't you, Mr. Sorbara and Mr. Bradley (MInister Responsible for
Seniors) immediately surrender all your accrued pension benefits (paid for
in part by Locked-In pensioners) to a Locked-In status ... that would be the
HONOURABLE thing to do. Then you might just appreciate the financial
discrimination you so strongly advocate for all other Ontarians who own
Locked-In pensions.

Instead ... you offer Locked-In pensioners a one-time 25% unlocking
privilege with total unlocking being available at age 90 ... when most
pensioners of course will already be dead. That is a far cry from what Jim
Bradley got as a result of Bill 27. ... and you have him looking out for the
interests of seniors ... Mr. Bradley's continued silence on this issue means
one thing only ... when it comes to pension benefits, Mr. Bradley firsts
looks out for himself!

Your former colleague Sean Conway, called Bill 27 (An Act To Amend The
Pension Benefits Act And The MPPs Pension Act) "wrong and immoral". He took
his unlocked pension anyway. Michael Bryant called Bill 27 "repugnant" ...
but since becoming Attorney General has become quite accustomed to such
repugnancy ... given that the exclusivity of Bill 27 has been allowed to
continue under his watch as Attorney General.

About Bill 27 Mr. McGuinty ... these are your words from the Toronto Star,
December 16, 1999 ... "The Progressive Conservative government is changing
pension laws to give a select group of MPPs, including Premier Mike Harris
and Finance Minister Ernie Eves, access to pension funds worth about
$850,000 each, Liberal Party Dalton McGuinty says."

You are, and have been all along, aware of the exclusivity pact of Bill 27
that gave 61 MPPs (of all party affiliations) 100% unfettered access to
their pension monies. Some of those 61 were Liberals ... some of them are
still serving as elected MPPs today in your party.

Your party's words of eloquence against Bill 27 were nothing more than a
hollow sham ...

MPPs who have integrity do not treat seniors (those holding Locked-In
pensions) in the manner in which your government has done since 2003.

Why do the 61 MPPs get 100% unfettered access at age 55 ... yet all other
Ontarians who hold Locked-In pensions will very soon, be entitled to only
25% unlocking ... with total unlocking coming a age 90?

What "means" test, Mr. McGuinty, was ever administered that justified only
61 individuals, who owned Locked-In pensions, worthy of having their pension
monies totally unlocked?

The "REAL" stench behind this whole deceit was and is the fact that ... the
61 worthy individuals who just happened to have their pensions totally
unlocked ... all were MPPs (of all party affiliations) ... and the hundreds
of thousands of other Ontarians who also owned Locked-In pensions have, in
effect have been told they are too stupid to mange their own pension
accounts ... and thus must be treated like total imbeciles by the Financial
Services Commission of Ontario (your regulatory agency, Mr. McGuinty) as it
doles back to them measly dribs and drabs of their own monies

Your actions tell seniors they don't deserve ANY quality of life ... except
on death when they can contribute to your scandals such as the COLLE-GATE
affair ... who is it that can't manage their money Mr. McGuinty??????

Any other names on the list of 61 come to mind Mr. McGuinty?

K. Elliott

PLEASE NOTE:

John Tory and the Progressive Conservative Party have endorsed 100% unlocking of pension funds (LIFs, LRIFs, etc.), 50% at age 55 and 50% at age 65.

The NDP endorsed unlocking of pension funds as MPP Andrea Horwath introduced private members bill #175 to unlock 100% of pension funds.

Bill Costello

September 4th, 2007, 08:04 PM

A Message for the Ontario Liberal Party:

Please note that we are gathering support throughout Ontario to unlock 100% of locked in pensions at retirement for Ontarians. This growing ground swell of voters are well aware of the reluctance of the Ontario Liberals to unlock 100% of locked in pensions.

Prominent individuals that are supporting unlocking 100% of locked in pensions at retirement include:
(i)Professor Jack Mintz, an renowned economist with Rotman School of Management, U of Toronto
(ii)Malcolm Hamilton, an eminent actuary and principle of William Mercer, Toronto
(iii)Gordon Pape, a well known financial commentator

A copy of Jack Mintz’s article regarding “locked in pensions in Ontario” published in the Financial Post is copied below:


Unlock LIRAs: Workers who change jobs get hobbled with inflexible locked-in accounts. It's time to end this nanny-state paternalism
Jack Mintz, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, March 27, 2007

Compared with the United States, with its bewildering and complex array of retirement savings plans, Canada has a proud record of levelling the playing field between pension plans and Registered Retirement Savings Plans (RRSPs):

We ensure that similar rules apply to them and we make them transferable. Given the evolving labour markets, with people quitting jobs frequently throughout their career, and given our ageing population, our federal and provincial politicians deserve credit for reducing tax barriers to labour mobility and savings.


Yet, one important form of discrimination remains: the locked-in RRSP. It puts millions of pensioned employees at a severe disadvantage compared with RRSP holders who change jobs.

Ontario's recent budget takes an initial step to correct this discrimination, but does not go far enough, especially when compared with some provinces that have done much more to remove this discrimination.

When a pensioned employee quits, a choice is made to keep money invested in the pension plan or to take out the money and invest it in a locked-in RRSP (either called Locked-in Funds or Locked-in Retirement Accounts, LIRAs).

The money cannot be accessed until a certain age, such as at retirement (this depends on federal and provincial pension legislation) and these funds must then be invested in a life annuity or Life Income Fund. With the Life Income Fund, the investor draws out money subject to mandated maximum and minimum percentages of assets held in the plan.
At the age of 80, remaining investments must be converted to an annuity (with 60% spousal benefit) or transferred to a Life Retirement Income Fund that allows the holders to manage their own money (but still subject to mandated withdrawal rules).

Unlike pensions, owners of employer and employee-funded RRSPs are far less shackled by their previous employer contract when they change jobs. The RRSPs can be cashed in any year without penalty, although the principal and accumulated income will be fully taxed, similar to pensions.
At the age of 69 (71 when the recent federal budget is implemented), the RRSP must be cashed out (and taxed), turned into an annuity or put into a Registered Retirement Income Fund (RRIF), of which withdrawals are taxed.

Compared with the Life Income Fund owner, who must hold an annuity or a Life Retirement Income Fund, the RRIF owner can take out as much as he wants, subject to a minimum percentage of assets.

Given these stringent rules, employees have a good reason to prefer RRSPs over pensions.

Defined-benefit pension arrangements have been used by employers to keep their workers on staff, since employer contributions are geared more toward the end of the employee's career, a policy that is becoming inflexible in a world where workers frequently change jobs. Further, with employer responsibilities for liabilities and employee claims to surpluses upon wind-up of defined benefit plans, many companies have shifted to defined-contributions plans.
These operate like RRSPs in that the employee receives pension benefits based on the performance of invested funds provided by the employee or employer.

Nonetheless, with the locked-in rules for pension transfers, why even bother with a defined-contribution plan since employees could have the same risk and return, but much greater flexibility, with an employer-provided RRSP when changing jobs?

The usual argument against repealing lock-in provisions is a paternalistic one:

Workers don't know what is best for them and will cash out their pension savings before retirement.
This nanny-state view has been a basis for policy in some other countries, notably the United States, which has imposed penalties on early withdrawals from retirement savings plans.

Canada, however, has smartly avoided this trap by enabling individuals to have full access to their RRSPs without extra penalty for withdrawals before retirement.

Not only does this give greater flexibility for individuals, but also provides a significant incentive to invest in retirement funds, since individuals need not fear that their money is effectively locked up when facing unexpected contingencies.

Locked-in RRSPs are therefore particularly unfair to pensioned workers since they do not have the same rights to access their retirement funds.

With the recent budget, Ontario is proposing to allow individuals to unlock 25% of their funds no earlier than the early retirement date (usually 55 years of age), beginning in 2008, after consultations.
At this time, individuals can only access their own money if they show special need, once they follow a costly bureaucratic procedure.

According to the Canadian Association for Retired Persons, during the period of April, 2003, to March, 2006, almost 30,000 pensioners applied for relief, filling out a 23-page document costing anywhere from$200 to$600 when the application succeeded. Only 52 were rejected outright, leading to wonder as to whether this bureaucratic process is necessary.

While the Ontario budget is a baby step in the right direction, NDP MPP Andrea Horwath proposed in a private bill, supported by Conservative Bob Runciman, to allow 100% access to locked-in funds. This would provide similar treatment to that available to many MLAs, who are given access to their occupational pension savings.

Some provinces have gone much further than Ontario to relieve pensioners from onerous rules after leaving their employer.
Saskatchewan has been the most progressive province, providing for the full transfer of pension funds to RRSPs or RRIFs. Alberta and Manitoba allow pensioned workers to access 50% of their LIF funds, although Manitoba will soon be moving to full access.

The only federal initiative so far in this regard is to unlock funds for federal employees at the age of 90 (we should all live that long!).

It is time to unlock the chains put on pension savings of employees who change jobs or retire. Doing so will help contribute to labour mobility, better retirement plans and, ultimately, a stronger economy.
- - -
- Jack M. Mintz is Professor of Business Economics, J. L. Rotman School of Management, University of Toronto, and Visiting Professor, New York University Law School.
© National Post 2007


Please consider unlocking 100% of locked in pensions at retirement for all Ontarians at retirement.

After all, it is their money. It is not government money.

Best regards,
Bill Nafziger

11 Whaley Ave.,
Box 94, Milverton
Ontario, N0K 1M0

Member:
Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders
Common Front for Retirement Security (with over 2 million members in member organizations)
CARP, working together to unlock 100% of locked in pensions at retirement (with over 250,000 members in Ontario)

PLEASE NOTE:

John Tory and the Progressive Conservative Party have endorsed 100% unlocking of pension funds (LIFs, LRIFs, etc.), 50% at age 55 and 50% at age 65.

The NDP endorsed unlocking of pension funds as MPP Andrea Horwath introduced private members bill #175 to unlock 100% of pension funds.

The Liberals offered a insulting 25% unlocking in their 2007 budget.

September 10th, 2007, 06:58 PM

A Letter to John Tory
Mr. John Tory, MPP
Leader - Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario

September 7th, 2007

Dear Sir,

I am writing you in response to your announcement in July regarding
your commitment to fairness for all Ontarians concerning locked-in
pensions.

Although we haven’t met, you may be aware of me through your Economic
Policy Advisor, David Goodwin. Mr. Goodwin and I worked together, the
day before, to the extent where I provided the details and facts for
your information backgrounder and your subsequent announcement for
unlocking pension income the following day.

I thank you for addressing the needs and the quality of life for the
many retiring and retired Ontarians by committing to unlock all Ontario
locked-in pensions 100%. I’m certain all people in Ontario with
locked-in pensions will undoubtedly thank you as well.

As you are aware, there has been a significant lobbying campaign in the
province by a large number of private citizens, the Ontario Coalition
of Independent LIF Holders and CARP.

I believe listening to the voices and stories from people such as these
has led to your decision to right the wrong of your predecessor that
occurred within Bill 27 in 1999. Fairness, such as this will no doubt
give more people a chance to contribute to the province’s prosperity
and the ultimate right to manage pension money that is rightfully
theirs.

Although I would have preferred your intention to be 100% unlocking at
the qualified age or 55, whichever came first as was done for 61 MPP’s
in 1999, the 50% split at 55 and the remainder at 65 is certainly and
without a doubt a huge step in the right direction to ending government
interference in the personal and private financial matters of all
Ontarians.

As I’m sure your research will confirm, there is in excess of an
estimated one million LIF and LRIF holders in our province. That number
grows steadily as a number of people continue to be forced to commute
their DB (defined benefit) pension plans and convert their assets into
LIRA's (Locked-In Retirement Accounts) and eventual subsequent LIF's
and LRIF's due to plant closures and permanent layoffs. Obviously this
is a very large number of affected people, some of whom are unaware, as
yet, of the severely limited access they will have to their locked-in
pension once qualified.

However, additionally, there is much more to the real and total number
of affected people than those currently qualified holders of LIF’s and
LRIF’s. The actual much larger unrealized quantity exists in the
eventual and future holders of LIF’s and LRIF’s.

That is, in addition to the growing number of unfortunate commuted DB
pension plan recipients and the current holders of LIF's and LRIF's,
there are millions of other Ontarians working for companies that are
currently in possession of DC (defined contribution) type pension
plans.
These DC plans accrue deferred pension plan assets that are also in the
form of a locked-in component of the plan member’s overall pension
plan. The actual percentage and amount is determined by each
individuals plan arrangement with their employer. That component
provided by the employer’s contributions will also be regulated, one
day, by the Ontario Pension Benefits Act in the form of a locked-in
fund.

In the early years of building these pension assets, little attention
is paid to these monies since the age of 55 is often far away and thus
generally out of the minds of these younger workers.

As the number of holders of DC type pension plans increase, so does the
importance of passing legislation, as you’ve announced, to deal with
that eventuality in terms of sufficiency and predictable pension
planning.

It is my belief that you consider recognizing this “other” growing body
of future “LIF” and “LRIF” holders throughout your campaign when
speaking about your commitment to unlock Ontario’s pensions and that
you include this “lesser known”, much "larger quantity" of individuals.
One day they too will be affected by your intended positive changes to
the pension legislation pertaining to locked-in pensions as governed by
the Ontario PBA.

This significantly large pool of people, once educated to the future
liability of the DC pension, will no doubt be thankful, appreciative
and responsive to a government that intends to ensure that their future
years, as well, are not shackled by paternalistic and restrictive
legislation preventing them from full control over their future
retirement funds.

In closing, and as every vote counts, I believe it is an important
strategy to inform and educate not only the current holders of LIF’s or
LRIF’s in Ontario of your intention to unlock their pension assets, but
the huge number of future holders of locked-in pensions as well.

Getting this message out to all affected people is paramount since the
component of a DC type locked-in pension plan and future unfortunate
recipients of commuted DB plans, affects far more additional people
than those current holders of LIF’s and LRIF’s.

Informing these two groups of people affected by locked-in pensions,
both present and future, is a very significant opportunity for you and
your party to recognize and harness the necessary support in order to
carry out your intention to unlock pensions in your bid to become the
ruling party in this great province of ours. A province founded and
built under laws of fairness, equality, and freedom of lifestyle choice
not only during our working years, but as well, during those all too
often relatively precious few retirement years.

Thank You.


Sincerely,
Grant Fleury
Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders

September 12th, 2007, 08:12 PM

Hi ;

There is a new site on locked in funds at the CARP web site.

http://www2.carp.ca/display.cfm?cabi...&libraryID=102

Regards Bill Costello , The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders

September 14th, 2007, 07:50 PM

Dear Bill,
I am pleased to be writing this letter in support of unlocking the pensions of those Ontarians with LIF, LIRA, and LRIF pension holdings. My colleague Andrea Horwath, the NDP Pension Critic introduced a private members bill in the last legislature that would have allowed seniors to withdraw up to 100 per cent of their locked-in pension funds. I strongly believe that this is legislation that needs to be reintroduced and acted upon by the legislature as soon as possible after the October 10th election.

Seniors want the right to access and control their own money, and deserve to have that option. People should not have to wait until age 90 to access the full amount of their pension funds, to limit access to 6.2 percent of principal, in an era when so much talk is being bandied about around choice for seniors, is simply ridiculous.


Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and New Brunswick and the federal government have already changed their laws to enable older adults to access some, or all, of their locked in pension, but in Ontario, only a select number of MPPs have the freedom to unlock their pensions. This is wrong. It isn’t fair, and is something I want to see changed.

Some people may question if a 25 year old understands the importance of this issue, but with my own parents approaching retirement age, I understand this issue not only from a political perspective but also from the personal perspective of my own family.

Allowing access to the principal in locked-in funds is the fair thing to do for Ontarians especially since a precedent was set in 1999 under the Conservative government with Bill 27 when 61 MPPs were permitted to do so.. For MPPs to give themselves the right to access that is denied to everyone else is wrong. I look forward to working in Queen’s Park to set it right.

Sincerely,
Stephen Maynard

NDP candidate
London-Fanshawe

September 17th, 2007, 04:13 PM

Good Morning All,

As some of you may or may not be aware as yet, Philip James has secured a one hour time slot on the Bill Kelly Talk Show at radio station CHML Hamilton 900 on the AM band at 11am on Wednesday Sept. 19th. The broadcast will be streamed live and can be heard on the Internet at http://www.900chml.com .

Philip & Ken Elliott will be participating together as Billy Kelly's guests.
Over the last few days, we've been working together gathering material and discussing topics and various strategies in preparation for the program.
The topics will be around the various locked-in pensions issue and hopefully they will be able to provide the listeners with a clear realization of what a locked-in pension is, if any of the listeners in fact do have one that don't yet even realize that they do, the consequences and limitations of locked-in pensions, the current political parties position regarding unlocking these pensions, the hypocritical position and silence from the current Liberal government and of the real truth and discrimination behind Bill 27 and the select 61 MPP's who cleverly and deceitfully created legislation to bypass the very rules they continue to impose on Ontarians today.
Hopefully as time permits, they will be able to get most of this material out to the listeners and create enough of a buzz among the voters who can then decide how important an issue locked-in pensions really are for themselves and how they detrimentally affect not only the current holders of LIF's and LRIF's but also the continually growing number of employees with LIRA's resulting from their employers DC type pension plans.

I will make every attempt to record the interview and create a copy of the program in an audio file and distribute it to those who want a copy, subject to the radio station's permission.

Please feel free to pass this on to all of your own set of contacts within your respective areas. The more listeners, the better chance to get the message out.


Regards,
Grant Fleury
Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders

September 21st, 2007, 03:17 PM

CARP FIGHTS FOR COMPLETE ACCESS TO LOCKED-IN-FUNDS

FOR ALL ONTARIANS BY AGE 65

Proposed policy will enhance equity and quality of life for LIF holders

Toronto, Ontario, September 19, 2007 – On Wednesday, September 26, at 10:30 a.m., Canada’s Association for the 50 Plus (CARP) will hold a press conference to urge the Ontario government to unlock LIFs for all Ontario LIF holders. CARP, in conjunction with the Ontario Coalition of Independent Locked-in-Fund Holders (OCILFH), proposes that 50 per cent of the principal in a LIF should be unlocked at age 55, with an additional 50 per cent unlocked at age 65.


450,000 Ontario LIF holders are seeking equity with the 61 Ontario MPPs who were allowed to unlock their LIFs; CARP urges the government to follow the example of Saskatchewan which has unlocked LIFs 100 per cent.


When: Wednesday September 26, 2007 @ 10:30am


Where: CARP’S National office, 27 Queen Street East, Suite 1307, Toronto, corner Victoria.


Who: Speakers will include preeminent tax expert, Professor Jack Mintz, leading actuary Malcolm Hamilton, Dr. W. Gleberzon, CARP’s Director of Government Relations, with a message from financial author and publisher, Gordon Pape.




Personal testimony by LIF holders will also be presented.


Contact: Michelle Taylor at 416-363-8748 ext. 236 or at m.taylor@50plus.com

September 21st, 2007, 03:29 PM

10 posts in a row, oldman. You must be desperate for us to read this stuff. Or just a spammer

September 24th, 2007, 09:51 AM

Hi Hermanntrude.

No I am not Desperate and I am not a Spammer. Actually unlocking these pensions will benefit me very little. It is also not much fun putting these messages out continuously for the last two years in forums across Ontario.

It is just that I believe as others do that it is time to let people know about the perils of locked in pensions, and the fact that People in other provinces other then Ontario are allowed to have control of their own money in these plans.
I also want to let people know that Their MPP's slipped in a bill to unlock their pensions under the guise of helping seniors with their pension issues.

NO I AM NOT DESPERATE. I receive hundreds of e-mails on this subject and have to spend sometimes 12 hours in a day answering etc. So no I am not desperate, just fighting for our rites and even your rites if you should ever have a locked in pension plan.

After all we are not talking about Government money or Tax payer Money .

We are talking about Your Deferred Wages and Your own Contributions.

Regards Bill Costello

September 24th, 2007, 09:55 AM

Response to a Article in the Star.com
Hi All; This letter is in response to a article that was read in thestar.com

Ontario Election , Drawing the line on campaign attack ads.

Good evening to all Liberals who seem to think it is honourable to tell less than the whole truth. Your collective silence as Liberal Party members on the issue of locked-in pensions is despicable!!!!!!!!!!

In the article below, Ben Chin, Liberal campaign spokesperson is once again only telling part of the truth, while hiding the whole truth as it relates to the Ontario Liberal Party.
(See the 4th and 5th last paragraph of this article.)

As you are well aware Mr. Brown, Mr. Kwinter, Mr. Bradley, Mr. Ruprecht, Mr. Patten, Mr. Phillips, Mr. Ramsay, Mr. Sorbara, there were 20 Liberals in all who received the same financial opportunity that Howard Hampton and Shelley Martel received courtesy of Bill 27, An Act To Amend The Pension Benefits Act And The MPPs Pension Act.

Each of you received the same privilege as did Hampton and Martel.

In fact your former colleague, Sean Conway (also a recipienet of the same privilege as Hampton and Martel) said in the House (see Hansard for Monday December 13, 1999) about Bill 27 ... " I want to make it plain. No one benefits more from this change than I do. It's a wrong thing for me to support. I would go even further and say it's immoral."

As for you Mr. Bradley, Minister Responsible for Seniors, your complete silence on this issue, while hundreds of thousands of your constituency (seniors holding locked-in pensions) suffer under the disgusting confines imposed by the Financial Services Commission of Ontario, is abhorrent. I don't know how you can live with yourself!

Is there even one Liberal party member with the guts to stand up and tell the honest truth about Bill 27, even as it relates to the Liberal Party.

So far there hasn't been one individual with that integrity.

STUDENTS SPEAK OUT
Kerry Gillespie
Queen's Park Bureau


Like most teenagers, Xing Chiu watches television.
What's unusual is that she's particularly interested in the political ads and in reading what the various leaders have to say about their plans for Ontario.
But in an era of negative campaigning, she's often disappointed. Instead of learning about what each party will do, more often than not, she finds out just how much they dislike what the others are up to.
"Recently, Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory accused Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty of being `the worst promise breaker of modern times.' At what point, or is there a point, where we draw the line between actually campaigning (on policies) and plain accusing and humiliating opponents?" asked Chiu, a 17-year-old student North Toronto Collegiate.
"You do draw the line ... you don't engage in nasty name calling," Tory said when the Star asked Chiu's question.
"To say someone is the greatest promise breaker in modern times, there's a bit of a tongue-in-cheek aspect to that ... but I'm trying to make a serious point," Tory said.
"The nature of some of the broken promises is unprecedented and it's a huge issue in this election if you believe as I do that you have to have credibility and trust in order to govern and lead effectively.
"But I will admit ... finding that balance between discussing your opponent's record and putting forward your own is a difficult challenge. But I really try."
There's a reason parties resort to bashing their opponents in the media and in paid negative ads, said Nelson Wiseman, University of Toronto political science professor.
"Some work, some blow up in your face, but for the most part (negative ads) do work and that's why parties use them," Wiseman said.
Last week, the NDP launched its first television ad. But rather than tell about its policies, all it does is bash McGuinty and his policies.
Often, it's not the party leader throwing the dirtiest mud.
Yesterday, within minutes of NDP Leader Howard Hampton promising to roll back the 25 per cent pay hike MPPs gave themselves last year, McGuinty's staff had sent reporters an email titled: "Troubling questions on Howard Hampton's rich rhetoric."
"When Mike Harris eliminated the MPP pension plan, Howard Hampton and his wife, Shelley Martel, were handed a near $1 million payout. Pretty easy to talk about pay cuts when you're sitting on a million-dollar nest egg, isn't it?" Liberal campaign spokesperson Ben Chin wrote.
Chiu, senior vice-president on her school's student council, knows a little about election campaigning.
"Campaigning means selling yourself, not degrading your opponents," Chiu said.
"I guess it's unavoidable in a provincial-level election to point out your opponents' flaws to boost your own popularity, but when opponent-bashing is the basis of one's campaign ... both parties lose credibility," she said.




PLEASE NOTE:

John Tory and the Progressive Conservative Party have endorsed 100% unlocking of pension funds (LIFs, LRIFs, etc.), 50% at age 55 and 50% at age 65.

The NDP endorsed unlocking of pension funds as MPP Andrea Horwath introduced private members bill #175 to unlock 100% of pension funds.

The Liberals offered a insulting 25% unlocking in their 2007 budget.

September 26th, 2007, 10:31 AM

Hi All; I just found this it was posted today.

NEWS RELEASE

JOSH PRINGLE
PC CANDIDATE
SAULT STE. MARIE

************************
A John Tory government will protect seniors

PC Leader John Tory said a PC government will give Ontarians 100 percent access to their locked-in pension income.

This would mean seniors and retirees would have access to 50 percent of their pension at age 55 and the remaining 50 percent at age 65.

In Dalton McGuinty’s Ontario, pensions are locked-in by the government as late as age 90 and the most any senior can hope to access from their pension savings is one out of every four dollars.

Tory indicated that when the Ontario Expert Commission on Pensions reports back in the summer of 2008, he will move quickly to implement its recommendations.

“We can, and must, do more for our senior citizens,” Mr. Tory concluded. “This means adopting policies that put fairness for seniors first. Our seniors have done so much to make Ontario what it is today. In order to repay that debt, leadership matters.”

John Tory has cited comments made in March 2007 by Dr. Jack Mintz of the University of Toronto calling for Ontario to unlock the chains put on pension savings of employees who change jobs or retire.

According to Mintz, unlocking locked-in pensions would help contribute to labour mobility, better retirement plans and ultimately, a stronger economy.

“Seniors and retirees built the foundation for the strong community and Ontario we know today. They deserve to have control over their hard-earned retirement savings,” said Pringle. “We believe that Ontarians know best how to look after their money– not government.”

“Our plan will allow seniors and retirees to have control over their own money and better plan for retirement based on their own needs,” said Pringle. “Ontario’s pension regulations present unnecessary challenges for seniors and retirees looking to transform a lifetime of hard work into financial freedom.”

Pringle added: “This is a simple change to Ontario’s pension rules with no cost to the taxpayer. Unlike Dalton McGuinty, who is only willing to provide seniors and retirees with partial access to their locked in pension funds, a John Tory PC government will respect the wishes of these individuals to manage their money as they see fit.”

In the 2007 budget, Dalton McGuinty responded to seniors and retirees concerns about this issue by proposing a plan that would give Ontarians access to 25 percent of locked-in accounts at the earliest retirement date of the pension plan from which the money was transferred and 100 percent access at age 90.

To date, no regulations or legislation have been brought forward to enact these proposed changes.

“Leadership is about listening to seniors and retirees," said Pringle. "If we are going to remove the barriers and give the people of our community the fairness and peace of mind they deserve, then leadership matters."

Ontario PC Leader John Tory also today detailed the Progressive Conservative plan to protect senior citizens and other vulnerable homeowners struggling with rising property assessments and unduly restrictive pension structures.

“Today, many seniors are struggling to make ends meet. They are penalized by a property assessment system that punishes people on fixed incomes most of all,” John Tory said.

“Dalton McGuinty has failed to show real leadership on Ontario’s assessment crisis. Too many seniors are on the verge of being forced out of their own homes.”

John Tory said his government will take aim at the current municipal property tax assessment system, which is facing a “crisis of credibility” according to the Ontario Ombudsman.

The average assessed home in Ontario recently rose from $179,151 in the 2003 taxation year to $232,883 in the 2006 taxation year.

Some assessment increases have been as high as 150 percent, and homeowners are receiving assessments that contain incorrect information about their properties.

A John Tory government will provide stability to homeowners by:

- Establishing a five percent annual cap on property assessment increases for as long as a person owns his or her home (including if the property is transferred to a spouse).

- Implementing a new reverse onus appeal system so the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation (MPAC) will have to justify an assessment increase.

- Ensuring MPAC fully implements the recommendations of the Ombudsman, and if the serious problems he identified are not addressed, shutting down MPAC and building a better system.

- Addressing rural assessment inequities which currently penalize farmers who have been encouraged to have value-added production services.

PLEASE NOTE:

John Tory and the Progressive Conservative Party have endorsed 100% unlocking of pension funds (LIFs, LRIFs, etc.), 50% at age 55 and 50% at age 65.

The NDP endorsed unlocking of pension funds as MPP Andrea Horwath introduced private members bill #175 to unlock 100% of pension funds.

The Liberals offered a insulting 25% unlocking in their 2007 budget.

September 28th, 2007, 07:52 PM

Hi All; This is a statement from our conference. It was quite a success.
As i get caught up with everything that has been happening I will try and post some of it. We are definitely gaining momentum.

Regards Bill C

Good Morning and thank you for allowing us the opportunity to speak to you today.
The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders is composed of a number of private citizens assembled from various regions in Ontario who's sole purpose is to lobby the government to unlock all "locked-in" pensions in our province.
We are primarily arguing two issues within one campaign.
The primary issue is that of fairness and equality under one law for all Ontario citizens regardless of vocation and void of political favouritism.
The secondary issue is that of the unjust government control of Ontarians access to their own personal locked-in pension assets. Assets that were generally derived from former employers "wound-up" defined benefit plans and employers defined contribution plans.
Regarding the primary issue, the current rules and regulations set out in the Pension Benefits Act are discriminatory, as theyre not equally applied to all Ontarians. The MPPs pension assets, derived from their former wound-up pension plan in 1995, fall under the jurisdiction of the MPPs Pension Act, thus the discrimination. Two separate Acts for the same type of locked-in pensions.
Discrimination?
YES, there are currently 61 MPP's, both former and present, that through a deceitful amendment to the MPP Pensions Act, cloaked within Bill 27 in 1999, exempted themselves from the highly restrictive and paternalistic legislation that governs all other Ontarians LIRA's, LIF's and LRIF's.
Regarding the secondary issue, the yearly maximum withdrawal limits for those who meet the minimum age requirement (usually 55) for access to their locked-in LIF and LRIF pensions is approximately 6.5%, increasing slightly year after year, until either age 80 if it's a LIF or age 90 if it's an LRIF. The aforementioned 61 MPP's have 100% access! The zenith of discrimination!
YES, 100% unrestricted access to the same type of pension-derived locked-in assets as compared to the rest of all other Ontarians 6.5%!
Outright inequality and double standard. Two separate laws for the same type of pension.
One for 61 MPP's and one for an estimated million plus other Ontarians.

Our Coalition is dead set against such inequality and blatant discrimination. Discrimination and silence since 1999 that continues to percolate within the ruling Liberal party.
We are demanding fair and equal treatment and insist on being included in this exclusive group of 61 privileged Ontarians by receiving the same 100% access to our locked-in pensions.
According to our research, there were Sixty-one (61) MPPs, across all three parties that benefited from this immorally and selfishly conceived piece of legislation consisting of 22 PCs, 19 NDP and 20 Liberals. The names of these 61 MPPs are known to the Coalition as they were derived, with reasonable assurance, from the Ontario Legislature Hansard.
This legislation, quietly kept from the public and cleverly tucked away within Bill 27, only unlocked their locked-in pensions, while leaving all other Ontarians behind.
For the past four years, Premiere Dalton McGuinty, Finance minister Greg Sorbara and Seniors minister Jim Bradley have continued to ignore the pleas of Ontarians begging for full access to their locked-in pensions, while specific members within their party, hypocritically, continue to have full 100% access to their own former locked-in pensions.
In the recent Liberal budget back in March, Greg Sorbara introduced a one time 25% unlocking option to hopefully appease the holders of locked-in pensions. This was an insult to all Ontarians and continues to fly in the face of democracy, and equality under one law for all.
In 2002, Saskatchewan listened to the will of their people and eliminated these restrictions, granting full 100% access to all locked-in pensions through legislation that applied to ALL their residents, and not just their provincial politicians. Their belief was that their residents know best how and when to use their own private pension assets.
In December of 2006, Andrea Horwath of the NDP, introduced Bill 175 to unlock all locked-in pensions in Ontario receiving verbal support in the legislature from Bob Runciman of the PCs.
Predictably and true to their ignorance towards seniors locked-in pensions, the Liberal party ignored this bill and instead went on to introduce and pass a bill for themselves that essentially granted all MPPs a 35% pay raise.

During the current campaign in a press release and public appearance in July, the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party, John Tory committed to unlocking all locked-in pensions 100% if elected, citing that "Ontarians know best how to look after their money, not government".
Our goal here today is to create an awareness of these two issues within the general public.
A public who for the most part, have no idea about the restrictions they will face when they qualify to withdraw their hard earned locked-in pension assets and who further and more importantly have no idea of the hypocritically conceived legislation that was created by politicians, for politicians, leaving the rest of Ontario shackled and begging for equal access to their own pension money.
We encourage you to support the parties in the upcoming election that will unlock pensions 100% for ALL Ontarians and not just a select few as was done in 1999.
Thank you for your time and allowing us the opportunity to speak to you about this extremely important issue affecting the quality and standard of living for the estimated million plus
locked-in pension holders in the province of Ontario.


Sincerely,
Grant Fleury
Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders





The Principals in the Coalition contact information is listed below;
Bill Costello: banjo6@baytel.net Bill Nafziger: nafjbg@perth.net
Ken Elliott: kenneth.elliott@sympatico.ca Philip James: philipajames@rogers.com
Anna Pollock: beachers2@yahoo.com Bill Foan: wfoan@storm.ca
Grant Fleury: gjfleury@sympatico.ca

September 28th, 2007, 07:58 PM

It's pretty well the same in Alberta where I unlocked 20k worth- of course you do have to pay about 35-40% in income tax right off the hop.