Ontario's link to Kyoto
- Thread starter BitWhys
- Start date
I'm not keen on being dependant on other provinces to fuel our power needs.
Also the coal fire plant shutdowns may not be the answer we are looking for, maybe we need to clean up the emissions from those coal generators, and from my understanding Dolton is turning the coal fires into natural gas burners. I wonder what that will do to the price of natural gas in Ontario.
Also the coal fire plant shutdowns may not be the answer we are looking for, maybe we need to clean up the emissions from those coal generators, and from my understanding Dolton is turning the coal fires into natural gas burners. I wonder what that will do to the price of natural gas in Ontario.
Re: RE: Ontario's link to Kyoto
oh come on Jay. Its not like Ontario mails Ottawa a cheque to cover transfer payments once a year. That's federal income tax money he's talking about here.
Jay said:
If I were him I wouldn't go begging for federal funds, I would with hold them from the feds.
We need a Premier with balls, not scabbed over knees.
oh come on Jay. Its not like Ontario mails Ottawa a cheque to cover transfer payments once a year. That's federal income tax money he's talking about here.
Thanks for posting that,
For one thing I learned that
I didn't think there was a dime left for GWarming.
The Ontario plan is news to me too, being a BC boy. It sure seems like the right one to go ahead with, but it looks bad for coal if we finger it out as the culprit even if it is the culprit, and Harper's allegiance to the Fossil Fools ]oil industry people] from Calgary won't allow coal to have a dirty name.
I gotta wonder who in their right mind thinks terrorism is a greater threat than global warming? We can argue either one doesn't exist, but the actual likelyhood of any individual being hurt or otherwise badly affected from terrorism is almost nil. Less than "crossing the street" kinda thing. Global warming has allready cost all of us something.
For one thing I learned that
I didn't think there was a dime left for GWarming.
The Ontario plan is news to me too, being a BC boy. It sure seems like the right one to go ahead with, but it looks bad for coal if we finger it out as the culprit even if it is the culprit, and Harper's allegiance to the Fossil Fools ]oil industry people] from Calgary won't allow coal to have a dirty name.
I gotta wonder who in their right mind thinks terrorism is a greater threat than global warming? We can argue either one doesn't exist, but the actual likelyhood of any individual being hurt or otherwise badly affected from terrorism is almost nil. Less than "crossing the street" kinda thing. Global warming has allready cost all of us something.
Re: RE: Ontario's link to Kyoto
Sure,whatever, I think we should just stop direct taxation payments to Ottawa.
BitWhys said:Jay said:
If I were him I wouldn't go begging for federal funds, I would with hold them from the feds.
We need a Premier with balls, not scabbed over knees.
oh come on Jay. Its not like Ontario mails Ottawa a cheque to cover transfer payments once a year. That's federal income tax money he's talking about here.
Sure,whatever, I think we should just stop direct taxation payments to Ottawa.
Karlin said:
besides the bus pass and forestry thing I'm stumped on that one too.
I'd heard about it since it involves investment capital to Manitoba. Not too sure what or if is already committed. Harper doesn't seem to care who he alienates. Why should he when he's got is neocon illusions to keep him warm, I suppose.
Re: RE: Ontario's link to Kyoto
Seconded; by about ten million people. How and why would the Quebecs or Manitobas manage to get grids to our markets? The grids are privately owned, NIMBY (not in MY backyard) hick communities in the Ontarios are going to agree to massive grids cutting through their land to get to South Ontario where the markets are?
They can deal with OPG, and best of luck. McGimpy has no say over the private distribution system.
What exactly would the plan be for the Manitobas, of all places, to get grids to south-central Ontario? Across and down Superior, Huron, James Bay then every north Ontario NIMBY municipality from there on (as if; or they have to start on land OVER Superior and best of luck with that; maybe right through Algonquin Park too) screaming "not in my backyard!"?
And then Manitoba bitches and moans that "South Ontario is sucking the life out of it," as usual. "If only they could keep their own hydro electric power," and on and on.
And what are the Quebecs going to supply? Ottawa and such in very southeast Ontario? Our grids only have so much capacity out in the deserted southeast and NIMBY will not allow new ones to be built in "their" backyards to supply south-central Ontario or southwest Ontario; which is where all the people and businesses are, where all the demand is.
Half of the air pollution in the south-central Ontarios comes from the coal-powered plants in the Ohio Valley and more are being built. I think we should just build really big coal-powered FANS to blow it back to them along with our coal-powered emissions, using the exact same "standards" they do until they clean their own standards up.
We have lots and lots of cheap coal, it's the most obvious (and least-expensive) solution to the energy crisis the "Ontario" feds have left south-central "Ontario" in, and use whatever scrubbers they're using south of a "border" that doesn't stop the wind from blowing over it in either direction.
They dump 50% on us, we dump 50% on them; and then perhaps a real solution will be arrived at instead of pretending that there is some "east-west Canada" thing behind some "air pollution wall" that doesn't exist.
Jay said:
Seconded; by about ten million people. How and why would the Quebecs or Manitobas manage to get grids to our markets? The grids are privately owned, NIMBY (not in MY backyard) hick communities in the Ontarios are going to agree to massive grids cutting through their land to get to South Ontario where the markets are?
They can deal with OPG, and best of luck. McGimpy has no say over the private distribution system.
What exactly would the plan be for the Manitobas, of all places, to get grids to south-central Ontario? Across and down Superior, Huron, James Bay then every north Ontario NIMBY municipality from there on (as if; or they have to start on land OVER Superior and best of luck with that; maybe right through Algonquin Park too) screaming "not in my backyard!"?
And then Manitoba bitches and moans that "South Ontario is sucking the life out of it," as usual. "If only they could keep their own hydro electric power," and on and on.
And what are the Quebecs going to supply? Ottawa and such in very southeast Ontario? Our grids only have so much capacity out in the deserted southeast and NIMBY will not allow new ones to be built in "their" backyards to supply south-central Ontario or southwest Ontario; which is where all the people and businesses are, where all the demand is.
Jay said:
Half of the air pollution in the south-central Ontarios comes from the coal-powered plants in the Ohio Valley and more are being built. I think we should just build really big coal-powered FANS to blow it back to them along with our coal-powered emissions, using the exact same "standards" they do until they clean their own standards up.
We have lots and lots of cheap coal, it's the most obvious (and least-expensive) solution to the energy crisis the "Ontario" feds have left south-central "Ontario" in, and use whatever scrubbers they're using south of a "border" that doesn't stop the wind from blowing over it in either direction.
They dump 50% on us, we dump 50% on them; and then perhaps a real solution will be arrived at instead of pretending that there is some "east-west Canada" thing behind some "air pollution wall" that doesn't exist.
Re: RE: Ontario's link to Kyoto
Exactly. $85 billion out of the Ontarios last year alone and they return nothing; to here. They hand out plenty to the ROC.
Equalization Entitlements – (2004-05, 2005-06) per person
Sorted by 2005-06 per person ($ millions)
Figures reflect increases resulting from the new framework on Equalization announced by the Prime Minister following the October 2004 First Ministers' Meeting). These figures incorporate the protection provided to provinces against declines in Equalization. These figures do not include the additional $150 million in Equalization announced in Budget 2004. [Or the 'Atlantic Accord' or 2.5% annual accelerator or plenty of other BS to buy votes at the expense of the Ontarios, as usual.]
Source: Not Long For This World Finance "Canada" - Equalization Program
Date modified (by source): 2005-04-04
Last updated/checked (by me): 2005-01-25
_____
MAJOR (nowhere near all) "Federal" Transfers to Provinces and Territories
2004-05 and 2005-06 sorted from the highest, per person, to the lowest for 2005-06.
CAD dollars ($) per person (per capita, same thing) in confederate transfers to each province and territory for fiscal years 2004-05 and 2005-06, the percentage (%) the amount of the transfers are of total jurisdiction's revenues (pittances of confederate tax returns for Ontario, Québec, BC and Alberta; confederate handouts for everything else; on top of getting 100% of all federal receipts collected from them back) -- but for the previous fiscal year. Confused? Welcome to the Canadas.
* NL moves up one position over NS from 2004-05.
**SK up the highest of every jurisdiction in percentage of provincial revenues in handouts from 2004-05 to 2005-06.
Territories = Nunavat Territory + Northwest Territories + Yukon Territory.
Atlantic Canadas = Prince Edward Island + New Brunswick + Newfoundland & Labrador + Nova Scotia.
Prairies = Manitoba + Saskatchewan + Alberta.
ON = Ontario
QC = Québec
% and Change in SUMMARY is not the sum of the percent changes from fiscal 2004-05 to 2005-06 but are the average changes (total divided by the number of jurisdictions; e.g. (3 + 2 + 2 = 7) / 3 = 2.3 percent change for the territories).
Source: Department of Finance Canada - Federal Transfers to Provinces and Territories (scroll down for all jurisdictions)
Date modified (by source): 2006-03-29
Last checked/modified (by me): 2006-05-09
_____
"Federal revenues" indeed. And we're going to have no choice but to withhold not only confederate handouts but "Ontario" handouts too; in the south.
Sieze our assets, refuse to process any "Government of Ontario" or "Government of Canada" financial transactions, cut our power, communications that they use (both conveniently located right on our land in South Ontario), plug up our sewers where our government buildings that they think are "theirs" hit our municipal systems in Toronto and Ottawa, cut our water supply to them, wipe their bonds off the TSX -- and tell them to get out of our buildings before things get nasty and they end up strung up on flagpoles or worse.
It's only a matter of time and no politician is of any worth. They will all be bypassed by what really matters: businesses, including all of the corporate bank/financial (and marketing) head offices in the Toronto area and South Ontario in general.
They're messin' with sons of bitches, right on our land no less, on prime real estate and are so far less than worthless that making them all pay for tarring, featherng them and paying their ways off to undisclosed Nowheres in the north Ontarios (to avoid any tourist attractions, which we'd then have to pay for; guards and signs telling no one to feed the animals and such; maybe even fences) is the very least that is going to happen to the morons.
Jay said:
If I were him I wouldn't go begging for federal funds, I would with hold them from the feds.
We need a Premier with balls, not scabbed over knees.
Exactly. $85 billion out of the Ontarios last year alone and they return nothing; to here. They hand out plenty to the ROC.
Equalization Entitlements – (2004-05, 2005-06) per person
Sorted by 2005-06 per person ($ millions)
Code:
____________________________________________
JURISDICTION 2004 2005 $ +/-
____________________________________________
Prince Edward Island 1,776 1,996 +220
New Brunswick 1,537 1,793 +256
Newfoundland & Labrador 1,398 1,668 +270
Nova Scotia 1,223 1,432 +209
Manitoba 1,147 1,359 +212
____________________________________________
Quebec 500 632 +132
British Columbia 197 139 - 58
Saskatchewan 464 83 -381
____________________________________________
Ontario 0 0 0
Alberta 0 0 0
____________________________________________Source: Not Long For This World Finance "Canada" - Equalization Program
Date modified (by source): 2005-04-04
Last updated/checked (by me): 2005-01-25
_____
MAJOR (nowhere near all) "Federal" Transfers to Provinces and Territories
2004-05 and 2005-06 sorted from the highest, per person, to the lowest for 2005-06.
CAD dollars ($) per person (per capita, same thing) in confederate transfers to each province and territory for fiscal years 2004-05 and 2005-06, the percentage (%) the amount of the transfers are of total jurisdiction's revenues (pittances of confederate tax returns for Ontario, Québec, BC and Alberta; confederate handouts for everything else; on top of getting 100% of all federal receipts collected from them back) -- but for the previous fiscal year. Confused? Welcome to the Canadas.
Code:
______________________________________________________________
JURISDICTION 2004-05 % 2005-06 % Change
______________________________________________________________
Nunavat Territory $25,975 88% $28,061 91% UP 3%
Northwest Territories $16,633 78% $17,951 80% UP 2%
Yukon Territory $15,727 76% $16,818 78% UP 2%
Prince Edward Island $ 2,930 39% $3,291 42% UP 3%
New Brunswick $ 2,739 36% $3,111 39% UP 3%
Newfoundland & Labrador $ 2,449 32% $2,966 34% UP 2%*
Nova Scotia $ 2,455 39% $2,793 42% UP 3%
Manitoba $ 2,428 38% $2,717 40% UP 2%
Quebec $ 1,757 25% $2,052 26% UP 1%
British Columbia $ 1,383 18% $1,570 19% UP 1%
Saskatchewan $ 1,332 20% $1,487 28% UP 8%**
Ontario $ 1,322 21% $1,487 21% UP 0%
Alberta $ 1,321 16% $1,486 16% UP 0%
______________________________________________________________
TOTAL $78,451 40% $85,790 43% UP 2%
______________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________
AVG AVG AVG
SUMMARY 2004-05 % 2005-06 % Change
______________________________________________________________
Territories Total $58,335 81% $62,830 83% UP 2%
Atlantic Canadas Total $10,573 37% $12,161 39% UP 3%
Prairies Total $ 5,081 63% $ 5,690 73% UP 10%
Ontario and Québec Total $ 3,079 36% $ 3,539 37% UP 1%
Rest - (ON+QC) Total $75,372 44% $82,251 46% UP 3
______________________________________________________________**SK up the highest of every jurisdiction in percentage of provincial revenues in handouts from 2004-05 to 2005-06.
Territories = Nunavat Territory + Northwest Territories + Yukon Territory.
Atlantic Canadas = Prince Edward Island + New Brunswick + Newfoundland & Labrador + Nova Scotia.
Prairies = Manitoba + Saskatchewan + Alberta.
ON = Ontario
QC = Québec
% and Change in SUMMARY is not the sum of the percent changes from fiscal 2004-05 to 2005-06 but are the average changes (total divided by the number of jurisdictions; e.g. (3 + 2 + 2 = 7) / 3 = 2.3 percent change for the territories).
Source: Department of Finance Canada - Federal Transfers to Provinces and Territories (scroll down for all jurisdictions)
Date modified (by source): 2006-03-29
Last checked/modified (by me): 2006-05-09
_____
"Federal revenues" indeed. And we're going to have no choice but to withhold not only confederate handouts but "Ontario" handouts too; in the south.
Sieze our assets, refuse to process any "Government of Ontario" or "Government of Canada" financial transactions, cut our power, communications that they use (both conveniently located right on our land in South Ontario), plug up our sewers where our government buildings that they think are "theirs" hit our municipal systems in Toronto and Ottawa, cut our water supply to them, wipe their bonds off the TSX -- and tell them to get out of our buildings before things get nasty and they end up strung up on flagpoles or worse.
It's only a matter of time and no politician is of any worth. They will all be bypassed by what really matters: businesses, including all of the corporate bank/financial (and marketing) head offices in the Toronto area and South Ontario in general.
They're messin' with sons of bitches, right on our land no less, on prime real estate and are so far less than worthless that making them all pay for tarring, featherng them and paying their ways off to undisclosed Nowheres in the north Ontarios (to avoid any tourist attractions, which we'd then have to pay for; guards and signs telling no one to feed the animals and such; maybe even fences) is the very least that is going to happen to the morons.
Re: RE: Ontario's link to Kyo
Ignorance is, as usual, our and everyone else's biggest problem, whether it's around basic economics (like real gross domestic product, the most basic measure of economies around) or populations or the fact that Vancouver gets 12 cents per liter to pay for its public transit system from the BC feds (on "equalization" welfare handouts no less), while Toronto and every other city in the Ontarios just ended up with 2 cents back from the hopeless "Ontario" feds (due to the entirely hopeless confederate feds; as is), which is going to do zero for public transit expansion around the population growth rates "we" get in the Toronto area, Ottawa area and some other city-regions in the south.
But nothing can put the thumbscrews to the "Ontario" or confederate feds like South Ontario can and has no choice but to do.
Everyone else bitches and moans about poor, poor them receiving more of our own revenues per capita than we receive of our own revenues per capita back from the confederates in the Ontarios and then the "Ontario" feds have to spread it around all over the place or they won't get re-elected; while the real economies go down the tubes.
The Toronto Board of Trade, other Chambers of Commerce, the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce (and everything else that matters) has already looked over the skids of documentation proving that "Ontario" is being ripped off by "the federation" by $22 billion a year on average, adjusted for inflation (and not), forever.
The "Ontario" feds ran HALF of that deficit on the municipality of Toronto alone last year, over $11 billion, because no one can get elected even mentioning Toronto, let alone being seen to give it its own fair share of revenues back -- which is never "fair" because it's eeeeeeevil Toronto.
To win the Ontario dictatorship, you (um, not "you" but politicias) have to trash Toronto and it's even worse at the confederate level.
And there is no singular Toronto in reality. It's totally impossible (without civil obedience, not whatever politiians claim disobedience to be, certainly not with some "Quebec thing" to the east, with a party the Ontarios should have: "Whatever is good for Ontario we will support. Whatever is not good for Ontario, we will not support."
Then see who gives a crap whether Quebec thinks if can suceed from the Canadas or not.
Albertans threaten (oh no; so we only have to pay 12 or so cents on our dollar once it's out of our ecnomic union, for all resources in the stand-alone 'republic' that doesn't even have its own LAW ENFORCEMENT?) and yada, yada, yada, the north Ontarios are going to separate from the south and pay for everything on their own, from OPP law enforcement on up and down to anything at all?
"Canadians" don't like to hear it, let alone end up with facts in their faces that they cannot dispute (go to it) from sources they wish didn't exist, but reality is reality and South Ontario is holding just about every card in the deck in the Canadas.
And willl have no problem at all offering the other end o the Windsor-Quebec City corridor its own republic of sorts, without having to go bankrupt to actually create a real republic with a stand-alone economy.
It's ridiculous enough to think that there is some united "Greater Toronto Area" (GTA), let alone united city-regions of South Ontario that matter.
But two weeks of mass-marketing from the media giant of the Canadas (um, not Kamloops) can (and has) changed that. And is doing so again.
Everyone "wants" a better union but no one is going to get it until the insults to the words (medieval political) "systems" (processess) and "structures" are change wholecloth with a new union constitution/economic charter, for starters.
Jay said:
Ignorance is, as usual, our and everyone else's biggest problem, whether it's around basic economics (like real gross domestic product, the most basic measure of economies around) or populations or the fact that Vancouver gets 12 cents per liter to pay for its public transit system from the BC feds (on "equalization" welfare handouts no less), while Toronto and every other city in the Ontarios just ended up with 2 cents back from the hopeless "Ontario" feds (due to the entirely hopeless confederate feds; as is), which is going to do zero for public transit expansion around the population growth rates "we" get in the Toronto area, Ottawa area and some other city-regions in the south.
But nothing can put the thumbscrews to the "Ontario" or confederate feds like South Ontario can and has no choice but to do.
Everyone else bitches and moans about poor, poor them receiving more of our own revenues per capita than we receive of our own revenues per capita back from the confederates in the Ontarios and then the "Ontario" feds have to spread it around all over the place or they won't get re-elected; while the real economies go down the tubes.
The Toronto Board of Trade, other Chambers of Commerce, the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce (and everything else that matters) has already looked over the skids of documentation proving that "Ontario" is being ripped off by "the federation" by $22 billion a year on average, adjusted for inflation (and not), forever.
The "Ontario" feds ran HALF of that deficit on the municipality of Toronto alone last year, over $11 billion, because no one can get elected even mentioning Toronto, let alone being seen to give it its own fair share of revenues back -- which is never "fair" because it's eeeeeeevil Toronto.
To win the Ontario dictatorship, you (um, not "you" but politicias) have to trash Toronto and it's even worse at the confederate level.
And there is no singular Toronto in reality. It's totally impossible (without civil obedience, not whatever politiians claim disobedience to be, certainly not with some "Quebec thing" to the east, with a party the Ontarios should have: "Whatever is good for Ontario we will support. Whatever is not good for Ontario, we will not support."
Then see who gives a crap whether Quebec thinks if can suceed from the Canadas or not.
Albertans threaten (oh no; so we only have to pay 12 or so cents on our dollar once it's out of our ecnomic union, for all resources in the stand-alone 'republic' that doesn't even have its own LAW ENFORCEMENT?) and yada, yada, yada, the north Ontarios are going to separate from the south and pay for everything on their own, from OPP law enforcement on up and down to anything at all?
"Canadians" don't like to hear it, let alone end up with facts in their faces that they cannot dispute (go to it) from sources they wish didn't exist, but reality is reality and South Ontario is holding just about every card in the deck in the Canadas.
And willl have no problem at all offering the other end o the Windsor-Quebec City corridor its own republic of sorts, without having to go bankrupt to actually create a real republic with a stand-alone economy.
It's ridiculous enough to think that there is some united "Greater Toronto Area" (GTA), let alone united city-regions of South Ontario that matter.
But two weeks of mass-marketing from the media giant of the Canadas (um, not Kamloops) can (and has) changed that. And is doing so again.
Everyone "wants" a better union but no one is going to get it until the insults to the words (medieval political) "systems" (processess) and "structures" are change wholecloth with a new union constitution/economic charter, for starters.
Re: RE: Ontario's link to Kyo
like I said, have fun storming the castle.
you're not saying its McGuinty's fault Ottawa has that $538M on blocks right now, are you?
question period'll be a riot today. wonder who'll field it.
hey, nice tables, btw :!:
S-Ranger said:
like I said, have fun storming the castle.
you're not saying its McGuinty's fault Ottawa has that $538M on blocks right now, are you?
question period'll be a riot today. wonder who'll field it.
hey, nice tables, btw :!: