Harper has no respect for the fallen soldiers!!!!!!!!!

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
4,968
36
48
It is a disgrace for Harper to dictate the method of morning for the Canadian soldiers. To place the Canadian flag on half mast has always been the tradition in order to show the out most respect for a country that is in the process of saying good buy to fallen young man and women while serving their country. Harper is slowly showing his iron fisted in ambitions, which has declared him a (dictator). Before the election he was a closet dictator, now he is testing the water on how much is to much?. It is a slap in the face of a soldier to come out and say the only time we will lower the flag will be only when a politician dies.
Talking about screwed up priorities or what?
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
perhaps he is getting ready for the time, we lose Canadian soldurers every day in this conflic. As we can not have the flag at half mast everyday..... something to dwell on....
 

JonB2004

Council Member
Mar 10, 2006
1,188
0
36
RE: Harper has no respect

Harper's decision to stop putting the flag at half-mast everytime a soldier dies has really ticked me off.

That's the dumbass Conservatives for you.
 

fuzzylogix

Council Member
Apr 7, 2006
1,204
7
38
I would be interested to know whether someone in the forces have to have a military funeral. If it were my son that was killed I would not want a public funeral and I would refuse to have the government involved. Are the parents of a fallen soldier allowed to veto all the military involvement and have a private funeral?
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
4,968
36
48
For sure Finder, it is scary he will think like that on a minority mandate, imagine if he was in for a full term? What a night mare.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Harper has no respect

Wow, the ignorance in this thread as me angered to the point of d.isgust in my society. Gotta love the typical civy knee-jerk attitude. Before you berate a Government for doing something, do your research. The actions by the Liberal party were a DIRECT disgrace to every soldier that has fallen overseas and an afront to over a 1/2 decade of tradition. Here's my post from another thread, hopefully it'll educate you as to fact, but i'm not holding my breath:

The flag was NEVER suppose to fly at half-mast when a soldier is killed. The Liberal party, in all their ignorance, broke a tradition dating back over 50 YEARS. The reasons that flags do not fly at half mast for soldiers killed in action are as follows:

1. If excessive casualties are taken over a sustained period, the Maple Leaf would perpetually be at half mast. Flying a flag at half mast for an extended period is a sign of disrespect.

2. A soldier, when killed, is said to have made the ultimate sacrifice for his/her nation, and as such as earned themselves a special place in our society. In Canada we fly a flag at half-mast for people, not paladins (i'm not talking about DnD with your nerd friends paladins either).

3. Following World War II, it was decided that when a soldier was killed, the tradition of not lowering the flags would continue, except at the following locations:

i. At their parent base (i.e. CFB Edmonton)
ii. At their parent unit (i.e. 3 PPCLI)
iii. At their home town (i.e. Vancouver, and this is option to the city)

This lowering of a is not so much a sign of someone dying and therefore the location showing their respect. It is an announcement to everything that one of their own has been killed. For example, when Robert Costall was killed, the only flags at CFB Edmonton that were flying at 1/2 mast were the Base Flag and 1 VP's flag, the rest, were at full-mast.

4. Contrary to popular belief, a flag is not flown at half-mast on a whim. There are specific rules governing the flying of a flag at half-mast. They are as follows:

The Canadian Flag may be flown at half-mast starting on the day of the death (or the day the news is broken), until the day of the funeral, but is not to exceed 5 days.

Considering that soldiers are more often than not killed overseas, the repatriation of their bodies often takes MULTIPLE DAYS, and even more days following before the funeral. Considering this, it is impossible to accomodate both the repatriation process and the rules of flying a flag at half-mast. If you fly the flag longer, that is considered a sign of disrespect, something the Liberals did on a constant basis.

There you have it, why we don't flying flags at half-mast for dead soldiers. Bitch and moan all you want, but by doing so you prove your ignorance in regards to military tradition. I will say that I find it funny how you instantly blame the Conservatives, when in reality they're righting a wrong carried out by the ignorant and uncaring Liberal Government. Lastly, Jersay, i'm not sure what they're teaching rentals these days, but it's obviously not military etiquette. Might want to leaf through the QR and O's.

My two cents.

Get over yourselves. I suggest you put down your xbox controllers and crack a book and become educated as to the history of your nation and the military traditions steeped in it. Until such a time, keep your off the cuff remarks to yourself.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: RE: Harper has no respect

Mogz said:
Wow, the ignorance in this thread as me angered to the point of d.isgust in my society. Gotta love the typical civy knee-jerk attitude. Before you berate a Government for doing something, do your research. The actions by the Liberal party were a DIRECT disgrace to every soldier that has fallen overseas and an afront to over a 1/2 decade of tradition. Here's my post from another thread, hopefully it'll educate you as to fact, but i'm not holding my breath:

The flag was NEVER suppose to fly at half-mast when a soldier is killed. The Liberal party, in all their ignorance, broke a tradition dating back over 50 YEARS. The reasons that flags do not fly at half mast for soldiers killed in action are as follows:

1. If excessive casualties are taken over a sustained period, the Maple Leaf would perpetually be at half mast. Flying a flag at half mast for an extended period is a sign of disrespect.

2. A soldier, when killed, is said to have made the ultimate sacrifice for his/her nation, and as such as earned themselves a special place in our society. In Canada we fly a flag at half-mast for people, not paladins (i'm not talking about DnD with your nerd friends paladins either).

3. Following World War II, it was decided that when a soldier was killed, the tradition of not lowering the flags would continue, except at the following locations:

i. At their parent base (i.e. CFB Edmonton)
ii. At their parent unit (i.e. 3 PPCLI)
iii. At their home town (i.e. Vancouver, and this is option to the city)

This lowering of a is not so much a sign of someone dying and therefore the location showing their respect. It is an announcement to everything that one of their own has been killed. For example, when Robert Costall was killed, the only flags at CFB Edmonton that were flying at 1/2 mast were the Base Flag and 1 VP's flag, the rest, were at full-mast.

4. Contrary to popular belief, a flag is not flown at half-mast on a whim. There are specific rules governing the flying of a flag at half-mast. They are as follows:

The Canadian Flag may be flown at half-mast starting on the day of the death (or the day the news is broken), until the day of the funeral, but is not to exceed 5 days.

Considering that soldiers are more often than not killed overseas, the repatriation of their bodies often takes MULTIPLE DAYS, and even more days following before the funeral. Considering this, it is impossible to accomodate both the repatriation process and the rules of flying a flag at half-mast. If you fly the flag longer, that is considered a sign of disrespect, something the Liberals did on a constant basis.

There you have it, why we don't flying flags at half-mast for dead soldiers. Bitch and moan all you want, but by doing so you prove your ignorance in regards to military tradition. I will say that I find it funny how you instantly blame the Conservatives, when in reality they're righting a wrong carried out by the ignorant and uncaring Liberal Government. Lastly, Jersay, i'm not sure what they're teaching rentals these days, but it's obviously not military etiquette. Might want to leaf through the QR and O's.

My two cents.

Get over yourselves. I suggest you put down your xbox controllers and crack a book and become educated as to the history of your nation and the military traditions steeped in it. Until such a time, keep your off the cuff remarks to yourself.


ooooooo, it makes me soooooo angry when people don't agree with me.... errrrrrrrrrr.... sooooo angry that that people think the lose of life is a sad thing.... errrrrrrrrrrrrr How dare we wish to honour our fallen soldurers folks. Mags is right we should stop this now! Lets just dig a hole in the ground and barry them. I'm sure we will have too many more deaths to come to really care about only four soldurers. Yeah your right mags.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Harper has no respect

I guess you didn't take in anything you read in my post, and were instead too busy acting like a tool. But hey, it's your personal image, get it across however you want there chief.

That said, if you HAD read my post, you'd know lowering a flag to half-mast for fallen soldiers is a direct sign of disgrace, especially when the lowering breeches a number of flag flying protocols. But what does somewhere in the neighbourhood of 80 years of tradition mean to you? Probably nothing hey? Just like every other Canadian who lives under the blanket of freedom the fallen have provided for you. You're trying to champion a cause that directly insults everything they fought and died for. You're in essence showing your own personal disrespect for the men and women who've given up their lives for this nation. Before you judge something the Government is doing, educate yourself.

Lastly, don't preach to me about respect, and honour. I knew Corporal Randy Payne, in case you don't know, he was killed in Afghanistan the other day. While I didn't know the man well, wouldn't even consider him a friend, the fact remains that I spent time in his presence and as such his death as touched my life, especially my father who worked with Randy on numerous occasions. Being as connected to this as I am, I wouldn't change a thing. Randy was killed, and the flag should remain at full-mast. There is no disrespect from me, or the Conservative Government towards him, and the other occupants of his G-Wagon. Quite the opposite, I honour our tradition, and I honour him more so that you could ever hope to achieve. If there is disrespect here, check your side of the fence buddy.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Hey Mogz, Myles was from Victoria that is fifth field in Victoria, which is connected to fifth field in Nanaimo. Have I ever met the guy, possibly, but that doesn't make a difference.

The Liberals started with a new tradition, when they changed it whenever it was, now the military might not like it put since parliment is for all Canadians not just the military shouldn't they decide what occurs.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Harper has no respect

Yeah the Liberals started a new tradition, in direct contradiction to 80 years of tradition and in violation of the rules governing the flying of flags in this nation. I guess only the Liberals could be that crass.

As for meeting the person not making a difference, uh yeah it does there pal. You may live in the fairy tale World of an untrained reserve signaller who has never been anywhere or done anything, but there are those of us who have constantly had the dead and wounded rubbed in our faces since 2002. Might not make a difference to you, but when someone you know (i.e. in my case MCpl Paul Franklin, and Cpl. Randy Payne) get blown up in 'Ghan, it hits home, and the traditions relating to our treatment of the dead and wounded means a hell of a lot more. I don't expect you to understand it, but being here with 1 Brigade since this whole war started, i've become testy when it comes to dealing with the respect of the fallen. Anyone that thinks the flag should be lowered hasn't a clue as to what it means to honour a fallen comrade. If you did, you'd know what tradition and respect really means.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Show me a link, I just looked through Canadian military history and traditional heritage at the DND site and not one word on this not one. If it is a tradition wouldn't they have something on it?
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Harper has no respect

When you get to your unit, crack open the QR and O's.

P.S. I'd bet you on that DND site (which sucks) you won't find any mention of Assault Pioneers being allowed to grow beards. But they are, it's a tradition.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
I'm goin to the man's funeral so what the hell are you talking about out of respect for his lost, that's what I meant.

Since it is no where on the DND website, and the Sgt I talk to who has 20+ years in the military hasn't mentioned it to us. Where can I find some info on it.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Ok Mogs.... in your own delussional way you think you honour the solduers by defeanding the disgrace... Fine whatever, but most Canadian citizens, be it from ignorance or anything else expects to grieve like this. When we have a tragedy we have always flown the flag at half mast... Perhaps in this case because they are soldurers, fine technically we don't have too. But don't you think out of respect we should? Well it is still frensh in the nations memory and while the nation grieves do you not think it is just right? Perhaps we chose to disagree with how you feel, but you throw it in our face how mad it makes that we think we should show more respect! to me that was extremely disrespectful but I chose to take it in light and make fun of how angry you were and how silly it was.

Call me a tool fine, but I have a feeling you are much more of a tool then I, as I bet if they had flown the flags at half mast you would have defeanded it just because it was the conservative government. You are the partisan tool my friend, not I.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: RE: Harper has no respect

Mogz said:
When you get to your unit, crack open the QR and O's.

P.S. I'd bet you on that DND site (which sucks) you won't find any mention of Assault Pioneers being allowed to grow beards. But they are, it's a tradition.

yeah when I was in the Queens own when I saw my first Ranger guy I was shocked he had a beard... and not a nice beard a wild mans beard. lol. I even asked my SGT why they were allowed to wear them and we couldn;t. The tradition of the QO sucked. We did everything in double time....
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Harper has no respect

The DND website is worthless. You can't even find a proper fan out of the Land Force. As I said, try the QR and O's.

Also, just because someone has "20+" years in, that doesn't mean they know anything. I've dealt with tons of "long timers" who've been utterly useless when it comes to military protocol and tradition. Ask your Sgt. why Infantry Sergeant Majors wear sashes, why they're red, and how many tassels are on it. I bet you a swift kick in the beanbag he'll not have a clue. It's tradition, and something you sure as hell won't find on the DND website, it all it's worthless glory.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Harper has no respect

In case you get a cock-eyed look:

Queens Regulations and Orders.