Taliban convinced Canadian people are "weak"

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
Taliban convinced Canadians will tire of war as MPs debate Afghan mission
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - As MPs gather in Ottawa to discuss Canada's more combative role in southern Afghanistan, a senior Taliban official and coalition commanders painted two disparate images Sunday of where the war is headed.

In a weekend interview with The Canadian Press, insurgent spokesman Qari Yuosaf Ahmedi said the Taliban are convinced the resolve of the Canadian people is weak.

As suicide attacks and roadside blasts increase, the public will quickly grow weary, he said.

"We think that when we kill enough Canadians they will quit war and return home," Ahmedi said in an interview, conducted through a translator, over a satellite telephone.

Given the fact troops are already deployed, Ahmedi suggested Monday's House of Commons debate as a sign of indecision among Canadians.

In addition to his fire-breathing rhetoric, the Taliban's public relations spokesman claimed that the insurgency had recruited 180 suicide bombers for operations in and around Kandahar over the next few weeks.

He said they are prepared to attack Canadians "any one else, at any place and at any time."

But coalition commanders had a vastly different assessment, painting the Taliban as cornered, marginalized into rural pockets, struggling to raise money and find recruits.

"The reason we think the Taliban are falling apart is because the pattern of attacks we're seeing is not co-ordinated," said Maj. Quentin Innis, a Canadian liaison officer with the local community.

"It may appear there are a lot of attacks going on and those are regretable."

On Sunday, Kandahar city was rocked by two separate remote-control improvised explosive device, or IED, attacks, which injured 11 Afghans, including two children.

Senior Taliban commanders reside on the Pakistan side of the Afghan border and where many suiciders - as they known by local Afghans-are recruited, said the chief of staff to multinational brigade commander.

British Col. Chris Vernon said, while the coalition has faced increased attacks, it has been successful is eliminating junior insurgent commanders.

"Various middle level leaders in Afghanistan have been removed from the circuit over the last month," he told reporters Sunday.

"When they're asking for volunteers to come in and take those mid-level positions, there is a distinct lack of volunteers coming forward, particularly out of Pakistan."

He also said requests by front-line Taliban for more funds and equipment have not been answered.

Canada's more front-line involvement in this dirt poor, war-ravaged country will be the subject of a "take-note" debate in the House of Commons on Monday. It will be largely a symbolic exercise as the matter will not be the subject of a vote.

The new Conservative government has been reluctant to hold the debate because of its potential impact on the morale of the country's 2,200 troops deployed in southern Afghanistan. A few weeks ago, a public opinion survey found that a majority of respondants were opposed to Canada's more aggressive posture and wanted the country to return to its more traditional role of peacekeeping.

And on Sunday, a new poll suggested the public is evenly divided on the Afghan mission.

The survey by Decima Research found 45 per cent of respondents considered the deployment a good idea while 46 per cent viewed it as a bad idea. That's a statistical dead heat, given the poll's margin of error.

The poll also indicated a lack of agreement on how long the military commitment should continue.

Twenty-five per cent of respondents said the troops should stay as long as it takes to complete the mission. Another 10 per cent said they should stay another year or two, while 15 per cent were willing to see them stay up to five years.

Fully 43 per cent, however, said the troops should come home within the next year.

The online poll was conducted between March 31 and April 4 among 2,131 respondents. A random sample of this size is considered accurate plus or minus 2.2 percentage points, 19 times in 20.

Since 2002, the conflict has cost the lives of 11 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat.

A senior Afghan army officer said Sunday that Canadian politicians need to understand the positive contribution the army has made to the region, beyond military assistance.

"The Canadians did a lot of things, especially for Kandahar," Maj. Rahmatullah Sha, the deputy garrison commander of the city, said through a translator.

"They've done a lot of reconstruction and security help. The security of Kandahar is normal. It's not that bad."

His account was somewhat contradicted by Innis, who laid out statistics from the local media that show there have been 24 roadside explosions or suicide car attacks between June 2005 and March 2006. Those assaults have killed 32 civilians.

"We understand the citizens of Kandahar don't feel secure, but there are two things you have to realize," said Innis. "The first thing is that there are more unsuccessful Taliban attacks than successful. I can't go into the details but we've prevented more attacks than those that have occurred."

The carnage can be blamed on foreign fighters, including jihadists from Pakistan, Chechnya and some Arab countries, said Sha.

Coalition forces claimed to have killed a senior Taliban commander during an offensive in southern Helmand province Friday, said a statement by the U.S. military. Although the man was not identified, authorities claimed the commander "was directly tied to dozens of improvised explosive device attacks."

©The Canadian Press, 2006
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Taliban convinced Can

Canadians are already "tired". This nation has no military sense of itself, and as such people pass judgement on something they don't understand. I have never been a fan of debating an operation entering its 5 year, however now that a debate will take place tomorrow I at least hope some good will come of it. Will the Liberals and NDP spin-doctor facts? I hope not in the interests of the men and women serving overseas promoting a better Afghanistan. The debate in and of itself isn't a bad thing. The politics that potentially will be played are, especially when they're using Canadian lives as fodder.

On Sunday, Kandahar city was rocked by two separate remote-control improvised explosive device, or IED, attacks, which injured 11 Afghans, including two children.

Until this shit stops, the wholesale butcher of innocents, we shouldn't be leaving Afghanistan. Then again, that's just me.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
I think one of the things Canadians want to know if we are going to keep sending people to Afcanistan is what is our mission there? What are we doing there? Where is the UN in this? Why does the current government appear to be almost as bad as the Taliban are and why are we defending it?

I personally think the Taliban and the Taliban linked or like orginizations from Northern Pakistan are not in as dire situation as that report says. The Taliban or the Ultra Islamists whatever you wish to call them in Northern Pakistan are highly orginized and pretty much run the north. Right now the Pakistan government has over 70k soldurers in the area but even with such man power they have not been able to control the area. I think the document above dismisses a lot of facts about the area trying to paint a picture that fighting the Taliban and the allies to be easyier then it really will be. We have to remember that you have to know your enemy and that is one of the reasons the Americans have done so poorly in Iraq is that they dismissed many facts about Iraq.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Taliban convinced Can

I think it's fair enough that people want to know why we're there, however my question to them is, why do you care now? Why weren't you paying attention back in 2001? Your ignorance should not be blamed on the Canadian Government, whether it be Liberal or Conservative. The Afghan Government is no where near as bad as the Taliban was, it's just typical spin-doctoring, that sadly many believe. The vast majority of the "facts" coming out of Afghanistan, are delievered by people who've never been to the region, and are basing their entire articles on guesswork and heresay.

The Taliban and Al-qaeda are for sure not beaten, but they're not very ogranized or well equipped. Since the fall of 2002 the militants in Afghanistan have been utterly un heard from, having only launched one (1) major offensive in 4 years. An offensive that resulted in over 50 militants killed and their chief supply base near Gumbad destroyed. No, the militants in Afghanistan aren't in good shape. With regard to Pakistan, there do not have 70,000 troops along the Afghan border, the number is between 3,000-4,000. However given the terrain, it is almost impossible to secure the border. The elevation makes it hard to heavily armed troops to trek, and the cover of darkness makes it easy for militants to move between the borders. In Pakistans defence, they're doing the best they can, considering the bulk of their military is stationed in or about Kashmir.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
I think you are dismissing the fact that Canadians and Americans are not very welcomed there right now and we may need the UN's legitimacy for this mission not to become a mission of occupation.

I think we all know why the Taliban had to fall and we all know why they shouldn't come back to power. But the government in power right now isn't thatmuch better and those liberals and enlightend peoples in government are powerless against the local taliban like courts, institutions, law enforcement and warlords. We have to know what our mission to do their is and what good will it do when it appears the people we are defeanding are just another strand of the people we are fighting. I think thats what chows me up on this issue is how bad it is. We can't just cut and run like many ppl here seem to think too.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Taliban convinced Can

I think you are dismissing the fact that Canadians and Americans are not very welcomed there right now and we may need the UN's legitimacy for this mission not to become a mission of occupation.

You're getting that info from where exactly? As i've said time, and time, and time, and time, and time, again, I spent 8 months in Afghanistan and never had a problem with being welcomed. I have more stories of happiness and thankfulness than you can shake a stick at. Furthermore, the U.N. supports the mission in Afghanistan. Problem solved.

what good will it do when it appears the people we are defeanding are just another strand of the people we are fighting.

You don't know much about the War in the Balkans do you? If you take issue with Afghanistan, and the troops not being able to finger who is the good guy or the bad guy, then you'd have taken issue with the Balkans. Am I correct in assuming that?
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
2
38
I think Jacko wants a debate now so he can go on coast to coast record that we should pull out. Not now but some time table. A date the Islamofascists can work with.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Martin's Opinion, Regarding Afghanis' Opinions

Today, on Goldhawk: Live / En direct on CPAC, the Honourable Keith Martin, P.C., M.P., the Member for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca and CIDA Critic for Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, stated that in his experience, members of the Canadian Forces returning to Canada after serving on the mission in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan have indicated to him, and to other Members of Parliament and Senators, that they were welcomed there by a majority of the Afghani people they met.

Just thought I'd throw that in there — I would be inclined to agree with Mr. Martin, based on what information I have heard from CPAC and other such sources, and from dedicated members of our Forces on Canadian Content (such as our friend, Mogz).
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...afghanistan_debate_060409/20060409?hub=Canada

Good document to read. As I have posted before asking for a debate doesn't mean you do not believe or wish to do something. It is apart of the democratic process. I think the Quote in here which sums it up the best is as follows

The NDP is fully supportive of the troops who are currently serving in Afghanistan, but still has questions about the current mission that they will be raising during the debate, Black said.

I think it is immportant to be able to debate such topics in the house of commons if we truly want or representive democracy to work properly... or at all...
 

LittleRunningGag

Electoral Member
Jan 11, 2006
611
2
18
Calgary, Alberta
members.shaw.ca
I think it's fair enough that people want to know why we're there, however my question to them is, why do you care now? Why weren't you paying attention back in 2001? Your ignorance should not be blamed on the Canadian Government, whether it be Liberal or Conservative. The Afghan Government is no where near as bad as the Taliban was, it's just typical spin-doctoring, that sadly many believe.

Many people have been paying attention but the media only picks up on what they think is hot at the moment. You know that.*

As for the new government... we can look at the Christian gentleman that would have been put to death had the rest of the world not made a fuss over it. What happens the next time? What happens when no one is looking anymore?


* I fully and completely support the war in Afghanistan. My only reservation has to do with bullspit Islamic law. Religion has no place in government, not here, not anywhere.
 

annabattler

Electoral Member
Jun 3, 2005
264
2
18
Littlerunninggag:

It is not our job to decide what sort of governance another nation has. If Aghanis want governance and religion together,who are we to criticize?
It seems to me that it's up to the members of any nation to decide their type of governance,not some "pre-emptive" power,or some nation half a world away.
Not all democracies work the same and not all theocracies work the same.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
sounds to me like the Taliban is picking a fight. they groove on that sort of thing. I suggest no one puts too much emphasis on what THEY have to say about things in determining our position.
 

LittleRunningGag

Electoral Member
Jan 11, 2006
611
2
18
Calgary, Alberta
members.shaw.ca
Re: RE: Taliban convinced Canadian people are "weak&quo

annabattler said:
Littlerunninggag:

It is not our job to decide what sort of governance another nation has. If Aghanis want governance and religion together,who are we to criticize?
It seems to me that it's up to the members of any nation to decide their type of governance,not some "pre-emptive" power,or some nation half a world away.
Not all democracies work the same and not all theocracies work the same.

We keep hearing that Canadians are working to help free the Afghani people. That sounds like telling them what kind of governance they should have. Or is it that they can oppress their people so long as they are a democracy while doing so?

The "western world" has told the Palestinians that they need to choose better next time they have an election. Withholding aid, financial and otherwise, sounds like telling them what kind of governance they should have.

I'm not supporting the Palestinians, I'm just advocating for some consistancy.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
This is the kind of message the Taliban want to hear and it's the kind of message they could hear if Canadians decide they want their Soldiers home right now which can't happen until Canada's Mission time table is completed which is in 2007?

In 1993 when President Clinton cut and run the US Military from Somalia after the battle of Mogadishu"Black Hawk Down" the United States was seen as weak by Al Qaeda and Bin Laden which started the path to more Terrorist attacks and 9/11.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
RE: Taliban convinced Can

I thought it was pretty weird to hear this in the mainstream news cycle- like someone else said, WHO CARES what the "taliban" say??
This is the same cheap trick that the phoney Zarquawi "messages" are released for (not necessarily the BinLaden tapes, I really don't know what to think about them)

this "announcement" is SO close to "please don't toss me in the briar patch" that I can't even think about it without laughing (and SURPRISE SURPRISE, there's a DEBATE about our role in Afghanistan TONIGHT..... and now that we know what the EVIL taliban wants, we MUST do everything we can to keep them from the satisfaction... terms of which are detailed in this most recent "news")

PATHETIC, truly, but it worked in the US and sadly appears to work here