Canadian Military Operating in Iraq. Good or Bad?

[Mogz]

As you may or may not have heard, the 3 hostages (2 Canadians and 1 Briton) were freed in Iraq today after 4 months of captivity.

http://tinyurl.com/r3cus

The operation to free the hostages was conducted on an international scale with police and military agencies from the United States, Canada, Britain, and Iraqi Security Forces. This is the first acknowledged report of Canadian military members operating within Iraqs borders. My question to you the board members is this; Is it a bad thing that members of JTF-2 were in Iraq to free our hostages? Do you feel that our soldiers, trained for hostage rescue, should have been used, or should the task have fallen to other militaries already in threatre? Vote in the poll and discuss below.

 

[Colpy]

I was amazed to learn a couple of months ago that the second in command of anti-terror operations in the Baghdad area of Iraq is a CANADIAN colonel serving in the CANADIAN military, but seconded to the US military.

Considering that someone of this rank and involvement is one of ours, I consider absolutely appropriate, in fact desireable, that Canadian forces were involved in the rescue of Canadian citizens.

I only wish they had the opportunity to whack some of the bad guys.

 

[Mogz]

Exactly my thoughts Colpy. If we have the tools to get the job done, might as well employ them. In many ways it is a good thing that there was no confrontation. In a fire fight things can go bad quickly, and all it would have taken was one of the hostage takers to spray the hostages with his AK. It is for the best that the team go in and got out without firing a shot. It not only shows the World the capabilites of Western Special Forces, but it also highlights that we don't always go in guns blazing to get the job done.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Canadian Military Operating in Iraq. Good or Bad?

Exactly my thoughts Colpy. If we have the tools to get the job done, might as well employ them. In many ways it is a good thing that there was no confrontation. In a fire fight things can go bad quickly, and all it would have taken was one of the hostage takers to spray the hostages with his AK. It is for the best that the team go in and got out without firing a shot. It not only shows the World the capabilites of Western Special Forces, but it also highlights that we don't always go in guns blazing to get the job done.

Absolutely.

Forgive the "high noon" mentality.

 

[Johnny Utah]

As you may or may not have heard, the 3 hostages (2 Canadians and 1 Briton) were freed in Iraq today after 4 months of captivity.

http://tinyurl.com/r3cus

The operation to free the hostages was conducted on an international scale with police and military agencies from the United States, Canada, Britain, and Iraqi Security Forces. This is the first acknowledged report of Canadian military members operating within Iraqs borders. My question to you the board members is this; Is it a bad thing that members of JTF-2 were in Iraq to free our hostages? Do you feel that our soldiers, trained for hostage rescue, should have been used, or should the task have fallen to other militaries already in threatre? Vote in the poll and discuss below.

This is great news, JTF2 went into Iraq to free Canadians because they are Canadians, it has nothing to do with if Canada supports the Iraq War or not. Sadly Tom Fox was killed before this operation happen.
Canada's Joint Task Force-Two
In 1993 the Royal Canadian Mounted Police's (RCMP) SERT (Special Emergency Response Team) was disbanded, reportedly due to problems the officers had resolving the neccesity to kill verses their desire to protect and save lives. This unit had been Canada's premier Counter-Terrorist unit. After their dissolution, the Canadian Armed Forces created a highly secretive unit (in April of 1993) reportedly called Joint Task Force Two. JTF-2 is Canada's new CT unit.

JTF-2 is so secretive that it's size, location, and training regiment aren't publically acknowledged. But details have slowly began to appear. It is guessed that their strength is around 300 operators but there are plans to double the unit's strength over the next five years. Each member is a volunteer from one of the three services in the Canadian military; creating a unit that is self-sufficient and able to deploy itself and act with a minimum of dependency on other units. They are based at the Dwyer Hill Training Centre in Ottawa's rural west end. JTF-2 is commandeered by a Lt. Colonel of one of the branches.

Reports have surfaced that JTF-2 was deployed to Bosnia in response to Canadian troops being taken hostage by Serb forces (in early 1995). The Canadian military would not comment on these reports, but the Ottowa Citizen reported that they were not used and the mission never went beyond the planning stage. JTF-2 is also known to have escorted General Maurice Baril across the Rwandan-Zaire border during Operation Assurance, the aborted Canadian plan to rescue Rwandan refugees. Later, members were deployed to Haiti and helped train that country's SWAT team.

JTF-2 is known to have contributed 40 operators to the war against Al-Qaeda as part of "Task Force K-Bar". They participated in many mountaintop surveillance missions as well as some direct action searches of cave bases. After

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Canada/JTF2.html

http://www.specwarnet.net/americas/jtf2.htm

 

[Jay]

First of all, I wish to express to my friends who did this job. Great job and thank you!!

The first hint we had there was a hostages there from Canada we should have had plans in effect to do something about it, and when I say something I mean everything; dead Iraqis or not.

Although we might pretend to be passive, we actually aren't, so stick that in your picture of Mohammad. Jerks!


I don't know. Have liberals seen our guys? Engaging in mind-boggling acts of heroism makes our brave servicemen happy. Camel-riding nomads may excel at the sucker punch, but wait until they see Western Civilization's response. As pilot "Elvis" said on MSNBC the other night, "We'll do the job." So I wouldn't worry too much about the redoubtable Taliban forces. We're sending in men, not Washington Post columnists. -- Ann Coulter

 

[Jersay]

Surprisingly I agree with you guys on this case. However, as long as it is to deal with kidnapping of Canadian people in Iraq and not going deeper into Iraq I am find with that.

And I believe they should participate with other hostage takings in other countries if asked if it has Canadians in it I see no problem.

However, if it is to go deeper into the Iraq conflict no way.

 

[Mogz]

RE: Canadian Military Ope

I agree Jersay. I feel ASPECTS of the War in Iraq are warranted, however I am glad our nation stayed out of that conflict. With regard to hostage rescue though, i'm fully behind it. If the door kickers of JTF-2 had to take down a few baddies to get the job done I still would have supported it, as it was for a greater good. I'm glad the three of them are safe, I just wish the American would have survived.

 

[Finder]

Of course we should help in the efforts to rescue our own people. But thats as far as I'd go. We should not get involved in this American war of aggression. The Americans don't even know how long it is going to last nw, finally admitted by Bush himself. Everything the republicans had reported before the war including the expected time lines were faluse and misleading the people that would not be another Vietnam, it turns out this may end up being another Vietnam anyways and Canada should stay the hell out. Also Canadian civilians who put themselfs in harms way should expect us or even the americans to help them every time. Half of these civilians are loonies on the left belieivng they are helping out the poor Iraqis and believe they won't be harmed.

Ignorance of the level of violance happening in Iraq is not an excuse on either side.

With that said I'm glade they were brought back anyhow.

 

[Mogz]

Half of these civilians are loonies on the left belieivng they are helping out the poor Iraqis and believe they won't be harmed

No shit. CHRISTIAN peace makers....in Iraq. CHRISTIANS.....Iraq....CHRISTIANS....jihadists..hello....

 

[Doryman]

I definitely support it. Wherever canadians are in trouble, our military should be there to help them out. Like Captain Planet and the environment, y'know?

Except they shouldn't be such hippies...

And we really don't need to bring along that South American kid. The power of "Heart"? WTF!! What a twit! how is "Heart" useful? I hated that kid.

 

[Mogz]

Come to think of it....I hated that kid too.....in fact I loathed him, being all wussy and shit. Gayzor.

 

[Colpy]

The Canadian Peacemakers are good people, doing what the (misguidedly) believe is right..........

Funny, any Islamic Peacemaker Teams out there?

 

[Jay]

Yes there is...they just have a funny habit of leaving everyone dead.

 

[Mogz]

Islamic Peacemaker Teams out there?

Isn't their group symbol the RPG-7? I think I saw that in a magazine once.

 

[Lotuslander]

I am happy JTF-2 participated, though we have no idea what they actually did so at this point it is somewhat academic, maybe they just did surveillence or were there to ferry the hostages out of Iraq safely and quickly? In any case from what I have heard they are a well regarded fighting force and am happy theymanaged to successfully complete theri mission.

On the question of should they be in Iraq? This is difficult.If they were only there for the specific purpose of freeing Canadians and the Briton then I think that is fine. If however, their job is more long term I think this is a mistake. The whole Iraq war has been poorly executed from the beginning; Waged on false pretenses, carried out with insufficient troops to maintain order, the disbandment of the Iraqi military which only exacerbated the anarchy, no exit strategy, a misguided belief that the country will turn into a democracy almost overnight. It has been a disaster and I do not see a way in which to change the situation. Militants or freedom fighters or terrorists or whatever you want to call them are recruited from the Iraqis themselves. Recent reports which have surfaced lead to strong evidence that US troops have committed war crimes while in Iraq. These atrocities only help recruit militants. I believe that there is no shortage of recruits simply because of the high number of Iraqi dead-well over 100,000 by most internation estimates-all of which is only exacerbated by tribalism, religious hatred and foriegn fighters which have come into Iraq.

Iraq is a quagmire lets not get stuck in it.

 

[Lineman]

Well done! Hope there was a couple cases of Molsons or Labatts waiting for them to toast the occasion.
Our "gentlemen" should now quietly slip back into the shadows until they're needed again. Any involvement in something other than this type of rescue mission would give the media crowd another reason to cry "conspiracy"!

 

[zoofer]

The Christian Peacemaker Teams said the activists went to Iraq "motivated by a passion for justice and peace."

"We remember with tears Tom Fox," group co-director Doug Pritchard said. "We had longed for the day when all four men would be released together. Our gladness today is bittersweet by the fact that Tom is not alive to join his colleagues in the celebration."

Group volunteers have been in Iraq since October 2002, investigating allegations of abuse against Iraqi detainees by coalition forces. Its teams promote peaceful solutions in conflict zones.

"They knew that their only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi and international co-workers," Pritchard said.

He also called for coalition forces to leave the country.

"We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq," Pritchard said.

Other Americans taken hostage in Iraq and killed in addition to Fox were Ronald Schulz, 40, an industrial electrician from Anchorage, Alaska; Jack Hensley, 48, a civil engineer from Marietta, Ga.; Eugene "Jack" Armstrong, 52, formerly of Hillsdale, Mich.; and Nicholas Berg, 26, a businessman from West Chester, Pa.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188861,00.html

Not a word of thanks to the rescuers. Just bitching for the return of Saddam Hussein it seems to me.

 

[Mogz]

RE: Canadian Military Ope

Soldiers are used to putting up with ingrates zoofer.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The Christian Peacemaker Teams said the activists went to Iraq "motivated by a passion for justice and peace."

"We remember with tears Tom Fox," group co-director Doug Pritchard said. "We had longed for the day when all four men would be released together. Our gladness today is bittersweet by the fact that Tom is not alive to join his colleagues in the celebration."

Group volunteers have been in Iraq since October 2002, investigating allegations of abuse against Iraqi detainees by coalition forces. Its teams promote peaceful solutions in conflict zones.

"They knew that their only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi and international co-workers," Pritchard said.

He also called for coalition forces to leave the country.

"We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq," Pritchard said.

Other Americans taken hostage in Iraq and killed in addition to Fox were Ronald Schulz, 40, an industrial electrician from Anchorage, Alaska; Jack Hensley, 48, a civil engineer from Marietta, Ga.; Eugene "Jack" Armstrong, 52, formerly of Hillsdale, Mich.; and Nicholas Berg, 26, a businessman from West Chester, Pa.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188861,00.html

Not a word of thanks to the rescuers. Just bitching for the return of Saddam Hussein it seems to me.

Yeah Soldiers risk their lives to save them and they get no thanks. :roll:

Are these the same Peacniks who went to Iraq to be human shields?