Article out of Afghanistan

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
This is an article written by a soldier serving in Afghanistan right now. He explains why the mission by Canadian troops is NOT peacekeeping. This article was obtained from the Canadian Forces Defence Information Network.

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In order to act as peacekeepers, there must be peace for Canada to keep, says Capt. Jon Hamilton

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have spent but a month in Afghanistan thus far; yet I have seen much of the country and the people that inhabit it. To many Canadians it must seem like a faraway wasteland, a forgotten abyss of the Stone Age, an empire of dirt.

I am home in Edmonton on two weeks' leave. I'm happy to see my family; my children are happy to have "Daddy home for a while." Soon I will return to Afghanistan for another four to five months and will complete my mission with my fellow soldiers.

I have arrived home to media reports on the good that Canadian soldiers are doing, as well as reports indicating that a previous government should have reconsidered sending troops to Afghanistan.

Other articles have offered opinion polls that show 50 per cent of Canadians want Canada to pull out of Afghanistan. There are also reports that political leaders want to debate in Parliament the role of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan because the mission is too dangerous.

I'm here to say, it is dangerous and Canadian soldiers are aware of the risks involved. It is what we are trained to do. Soldiers go to war.

Prior to coming home, my platoon reacted to two incidents involving improvised explosive devices. Because of our training we walked away unscathed. Other colleagues have been subject to vehicle accidents, ambushes with rocket-propelled grenades, and, recently, an axe attack at a meeting with local elders to discuss peace and negotiation.

This is the reality of our work in Afghanistan. This is what Canadian soldiers do. This is what Canadian soldiers are paid to do. This is what we want to do.

Our mission in Afghanistan is to make Afghanistan work for itself. We are there to enhance the Afghan capacity to govern themselves. We are there to ensure that a nation that has been at war for the past 25 years does not slip backward and exist as a haven for terrorists and insurgents.

We are doing this in conjunction with the Afghan National Police and the Afghan National army. With them, Canadian soldiers are working to reconstruct the nation and ensure the security of the Afghan people.

At the same time, we are enforcing good governance by the elected officials to make them accountable in representing the interests of all Afghans.

This is a tall order that we must be committed to seeing through in the years to come.

During the past month I have considered myself privileged to conduct operations with both the Afghan police and army. During this time I have developed a deep admiration for the Afghan soldiers and police.

Generally, they are young men whose fathers fought the Soviets during the 1980s. They are loyal and hardworking and they want to see the establishment of a peaceful Afghanistan for their children and grandchildren. They want an Afghanistan that can exist without the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Their resolve is strong.

These young men move toward the sound of gunfire and I intend to continue to be at their sides when they do. This is what Canadian soldiers have trained for. We cannot let them down.

What Canadians must now realize is that in order to be peacekeepers, there must be a peace to keep. Currently, that peace does not exist in Afghanistan. The nation is one giant warzone and the constant reports I hear on the news refer to Afghanistan as a peacekeeping operation. This is wrong.

Our time in Afghanistan has been and will continue to be focused on setting the conditions for peace by any means nesseccary. This involves ensuring effective government within a secure environment, the development of sound infrastructure and providing humanitarian assistance when applicable.

It also involves confronting elements that will challenge our ability to implement these measures. It involves dealing with improvised explosive devices, suicide bombers, vehicle accidents, ambushes and yes, confronting the enemy with force.

This is dangerous work, work that needs to be done for Canada's own security. It is in our best interest to do it now and see the task through to the end.

We must ensure Afghans are able to become masters of their own destiny, to rule and live in their "empire of dirt."

And I, like all my fellow soldiers will be there, as soldiers - not peacekeepers - to help them do it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capt. John Hamilton is a reconnaissance platoon commander with the 1st Battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry in Edmonton. He has been in the military for six years



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Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
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Great article Mogz. It truely boggles me that the Canadian public thought this was a Peace Keeping Mission. My biggest fear is the Tree hugging, lettuce eating veggins,the love all things and give the world a hug groups will start screaming to bring our "Boys Home".
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Mogz thank you for sharing that with us....

Captain Hamilton - thank you also sir - for your service and your sacrifice.

No it never was a peacekeeping operation. We have all known it for what it was and is now. One day we will see your hard work come to fruition.

Meanwhile I trust your government is equipping you and your warriors with WAR materiel, not what we are calling your mission
in that wild piece of earth.

Stay safe, sir, watch your back, stay cool when the sun sears your helmet... and godspeed. My thanks also to y our family and their sacrifice.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Article out of Afghan

Great article Mogz. It truely boggles me that the Canadian public thought this was a Peace Keeping Mission. My biggest fear is the Tree hugging, lettuce eating veggins,the love all things and give the world a hug groups will start screaming to bring our "Boys Home".

Oh they'll call for it and I hope our Government shuts them down and remains true to our obligations.

Meanwhile I trust your government is equipping you and your warriors with WAR materiel, not what we are calling your mission
in that wild piece of earth.

The troops are well equipped for war Wednesday. Sadly there isn't enough body armor to go around so we had to scrounge the Army to equip the entire battlegroup. I had to give my flak vest and ballistic plates to a medic from my unit heading overseas. Other than that the Army is doing well over there. Lots of bullets, lots of beans. We're good to go :)
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Peacekeeping mission;

You keep the peace between the beliigerants.

Here you have someone to fight, Canada is in a combat mission they are at war I am surprised at the media in Canada for calling this peacekeeping, and the dangers it causes in 'debates' and such in Canada.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
I don't really have a strong opinion in our envolvment in Afcan. But to be scared about debating this issue in parliment? This is a democracy and sorry that we don't all agree on the same thing all the time. This isn't a soviet republic were we have to follow the orders of the all knowing leader.

Any issue even war is worth debating! Just because soldiers are gone hoe into going into combat situations doesn't automatically mean that it is right.

Again I do not say Afcan is the wrong place to be, but there is always room for debate.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
RE: Article out of Afghan

Hey Mogz I,m a taxpayer so thats my military over there and I don,t want it working for Uncle Sam. If it were up to me I,d arm you to the teeth and give you everything you need I,d be pointing you in a different direction though. Debate dosn,t denote a lack of support nor a lack of concern, don,t think because I don,t agree about the reasons we are there and what were working for that I do not support my military and feel for everyone of them, do not reduce the debate to the simple your with us or against us shit of Uncle Sam. When it comes right down to it your ass belongs to me and the rest of Canada who has armed and trained you, you are not the property of any political party, your duty is to obey orders and when the Canadian people decide what it wants we,ll let you know, untill that time carry on and keep your heads on your shoulders, and your powder dry. :)
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
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Vancouver, BC
Nicely said, darkbeaver. I agree entirely.

The citizens of Canada through our elected representatives should, at all times, have the right to consider, debate and discuss any actions that are to take placed with the Canadian Armed Forces — such is not a lack or withdrawal of support in our forces, but rather the circumstances in which we wish to place them.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
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The Evil Empire
You're not a direct democracy, the people are not privy to a range of issues to make the call. Majority mob rule has often dictated a wrong course of action.

Really guys, whereas you are right and have a point can't you consider even for a moment, the words you say what it might do to a soldiers moral? Soldiers take orders by chain of command, the Canadian people, despite what they might think ARE NOT in command. Gee zuzz.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
I was not intending to imply that citizens are "in command." However, we should have the right, through our representatives in the House of Commons, to so much as discuss these sorts of issues.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
And I wasn't referring to that, you agreed with Darkbeaver when he essentially said, shut up and when we decide what to do we will inform you, I mean really people. :roll:
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
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www.kdm.ca
"You're not a direct democracy, the people are not privy to a range of issues to make the call. Majority mob rule has often dictated a wrong course of action. "

correct, however the parlement should remain open to debate on the issue at hand. Following a course of action without reflection is just as dangerous as mob rule.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Article out of Afghan

Hey Mogz I,m a taxpayer so thats my military over there and I don,t want it working for Uncle Sam. If it were up to me I,d arm you to the teeth and give you everything you need I,d be pointing you in a different direction though.

While it may be "your" military, you clearly lack the forethought to decide how to employ it effectively. You think we're working for "Uncle Sam" when in reality, as i've stated time and time again on these forums, Canada plans and conducts its own missions overseas. We are not influence by the U.S. in a military regard (i.e. the War in Iraq). You seem hung up on this "slave to the U.S" syndrome and frankly it's getting pretty tired. Think what you will, we're our own nation and our own Army. Our decisions to send troops in to harms way is based on what's good for Canada, not what best suits the U.S. With regard to direction, what direction would that be?

Debate dosn,t denote a lack of support nor a lack of concern, don,t think because I don,t agree about the reasons we are there and what were working for that I do not support my military and feel for everyone of them, do not reduce the debate to the simple your with us or against us shit of Uncle Sam.

Once again this has nothing to do with the United States, frankly I don't even see how a debate in Parliment can be traced to any relation with the U.S. When all it said and done a debate on a mission that has been ongoing for 5 years and has cost the lives of 10 Canadian is a sign of a lack of support. In every other war Canada has been in no one debated the justness or the ramifications. We've lost tens of thousands of men and women in the past and no one stopped and blamed the U.S. or the Free Market Economy. Blaming the above mentioned is a cliche of the 21st Century, something you and Five and a whole host of other bleeding hearts on these forums are clinging to. I've posted a few of the more "hilarious" posts made by you, and Aeon, and Five on a forum frequented by military members and the comments I read are much more harsh than anything i've ever said here. In short the people that defend you and you deem the lapdogs of the U.S. think you're a tool. Now I know you probably don't care, and why should you, however i'm merely pointing this out to highlight how ridiculous your arguments can be at times...nothing beats the tripe Aeon spits out though.

When it comes right down to it your ass belongs to me and the rest of Canada who has armed and trained you, you are not the property of any political party, your duty is to obey orders and when the Canadian people decide what it wants we,ll let you know, untill that time carry on and keep your heads on your shoulders, and your powder dry.

My ass does not belong to anyone you shithead. I serve Canada and its interest, not you and your weakminded ideals. As "I think not" has pointed out, this is not a full Democracy. You are not privy to everything and as such your opinion means little to both me and the Army. We march at the order of the Government, not pacifistic prats like you. As for equipping me, you have done no such thing. If you've voted any other party than Conservative you've taken from me. You've given me a shortage of ammunition to train with. You've given me a lack of cold weather clothing. You've give me a lack of body armor. You've given me 2nd rate vehicles that break down on a regular basis. You've given me outdated armor, outdated aircraft, outdated ships, outdated methods, outdated doctrine, outdated computers. In short you've hurt me more than you've ever helped me. For every time i've frozen my ass off in the arctic, wishing I had proper gortex snowpants (which I finally do now), for every time i've had to call repair and recovery to tow my LSVW back to base, for every time i've sat in Trenton waiting for an aircraft that is hours late because we don't have enough, you were to blame. So take your highminded, feel good, take on the Army and shove it. You've done nothing for me. To wrap up, I march when the defense minister says march. Not when the opposition bitches about casualties. I march when the CDS says march, not when the public gets upset by the fact we're not peacekeeping. I march when my unit is sent in to harms way, not when you deem my cause just and right in your own code of "ethics". I'm a soldier so fools like you, who do not appreciate what you have and the people who give it to you, will never have to experience the shit i've seen overseas. You're welcome.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Mogz

Never feel you have to defend your choice....ever.

Aside from the fact men and women pack up and leave the security of their homes for a cruel and terrible place where tension is as thick as gruel....we here in our comfort must be
cautious about our debates and our opinions.

I think some people have no idea how it grinds at those who read criticism of the military presence in the middle east when they are part of the mission, eating what passes for food each day, sleeping on cots, packing gear that would flatten most of us...trying to keep up the spirit. Thinking their country is behind their work.

Dissention and debate is all well and good, but save it for when the mission is over and all of the participants are home safe.

Then argue and decide never again.

And hope never again means never again.
 

NSA

Nominee Member
Jan 20, 2005
66
0
6
Guelph, Ontario
I don't post here often but IMO there are some weird arguments in this thread so here goes...

Sassylassie said:
Great article Mogz. It truely boggles me that the Canadian public thought this was a Peace Keeping Mission. My biggest fear is the Tree hugging, lettuce eating veggins,the love all things and give the world a hug groups will start screaming to bring our "Boys Home".
Please refrain from insulting vegans if you can't spell "vegan" 8O

Mogz said:
As for equipping me, you have done no such thing. If you've voted any other party than Conservative you've taken from me. You've given me a shortage of ammunition to train with. You've given me a lack of cold weather clothing. You've give me a lack of body armor. You've given me 2nd rate vehicles that break down on a regular basis. You've given me outdated armor, outdated aircraft, outdated ships, outdated methods, outdated doctrine, outdated computers. In short you've hurt me more than you've ever helped me...
Perhaps... but voting any which way is a right that you are out there defending (albeit currently for the Afghans, which is good for them AND us). There are a lot of reasons to NOT vote Conservative, and doing so does not mean a particular person supports under-equipping the military. Party politics means you have to vote for a package, so don't go accusing people of "hurting you" because they don't support "your" party. The military is only one issue among many in a party's platform, and ALL those issues have to be considered by voters.

To wrap up, I march when the defense minister says march. Not when the opposition bitches about casualties. I march when the CDS says march, not when the public gets upset by the fact we're not peacekeeping. I march when my unit is sent in to harms way, not when you deem my cause just and right in your own code of "ethics".
Actually you march into harm's way because the representatives of Canada's citizens have made an "ethical" decision (influenced, one hopes, by the opposition "bitching about casualties" aka making sure lives are not lost for no good reason) that your assistance is needed somewhere, and needed enough to risk your wellbeing. You don't want ethics to start NOT being considered in these decisions after all.

I think it's important to protect the Afghans, they are in a delicate situation. I think Canadians are great people to be doing it too - we are not hated or (I hope) seen as occupying invaders. The Taliban could resurge any time and make life very unpleasant again if they aren't held off with force of arms. Opposing them is very ethically defensible, but if it was NOT, I would hope we wouldn't be doing it.

Wednesday's Child said:
Dissention and debate is all well and good, but save it for when the mission is over and all of the participants are home safe.
No! Who is going to tell anyone when to debate a military endeavour or not? And how are they going to stop that debate? Are you going to throw dissenters in jail? Declare certain topics off-limits during Question Period?

"No dissent during wartime" is an ugly hallmark of a militarized society. We do not exist to serve the troops, they exist to serve (i.e. defend) US. And "they" are "us" too, being citizens themselves who deserve the right to dissent.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Re: RE: Article out of Afghan

Mogz said:
Hey Mogz I,m a taxpayer so thats my military over there and I don,t want it working for Uncle Sam. If it were up to me I,d arm you to the teeth and give you everything you need I,d be pointing you in a different direction though.

While it may be "your" military, you clearly lack the forethought to decide how to employ it effectively. You think we're working for "Uncle Sam" when in reality, as i've stated time and time again on these forums, Canada plans and conducts its own missions overseas. We are not influence by the U.S. in a military regard (i.e. the War in Iraq). You seem hung up on this "slave to the U.S" syndrome and frankly it's getting pretty tired. Think what you will, we're our own nation and our own Army. Our decisions to send troops in to harms way is based on what's good for Canada, not what best suits the U.S. With regard to direction, what direction would that be?

Debate dosn,t denote a lack of support nor a lack of concern, don,t think because I don,t agree about the reasons we are there and what were working for that I do not support my military and feel for everyone of them, do not reduce the debate to the simple your with us or against us shit of Uncle Sam.

Once again this has nothing to do with the United States, frankly I don't even see how a debate in Parliment can be traced to any relation with the U.S. When all it said and done a debate on a mission that has been ongoing for 5 years and has cost the lives of 10 Canadian is a sign of a lack of support. In every other war Canada has been in no one debated the justness or the ramifications. We've lost tens of thousands of men and women in the past and no one stopped and blamed the U.S. or the Free Market Economy. Blaming the above mentioned is a cliche of the 21st Century, something you and Five and a whole host of other bleeding hearts on these forums are clinging to. I've posted a few of the more "hilarious" posts made by you, and Aeon, and Five on a forum frequented by military members and the comments I read are much more harsh than anything i've ever said here. In short the people that defend you and you deem the lapdogs of the U.S. think you're a tool. Now I know you probably don't care, and why should you, however i'm merely pointing this out to highlight how ridiculous your arguments can be at times...nothing beats the tripe Aeon spits out though.

When it comes right down to it your ass belongs to me and the rest of Canada who has armed and trained you, you are not the property of any political party, your duty is to obey orders and when the Canadian people decide what it wants we,ll let you know, untill that time carry on and keep your heads on your shoulders, and your powder dry.

My ass does not belong to anyone you shithead. I serve Canada and its interest, not you and your weakminded ideals. As "I think not" has pointed out, this is not a full Democracy. You are not privy to everything and as such your opinion means little to both me and the Army. We march at the order of the Government, not pacifistic prats like you. As for equipping me, you have done no such thing. If you've voted any other party than Conservative you've taken from me. You've given me a shortage of ammunition to train with. You've given me a lack of cold weather clothing. You've give me a lack of body armor. You've given me 2nd rate vehicles that break down on a regular basis. You've given me outdated armor, outdated aircraft, outdated ships, outdated methods, outdated doctrine, outdated computers. In short you've hurt me more than you've ever helped me. For every time i've frozen my ass off in the arctic, wishing I had proper gortex snowpants (which I finally do now), for every time i've had to call repair and recovery to tow my LSVW back to base, for every time i've sat in Trenton waiting for an aircraft that is hours late because we don't have enough, you were to blame. So take your highminded, feel good, take on the Army and shove it. You've done nothing for me. To wrap up, I march when the defense minister says march. Not when the opposition bitches about casualties. I march when the CDS says march, not when the public gets upset by the fact we're not peacekeeping. I march when my unit is sent in to harms way, not when you deem my cause just and right in your own code of "ethics". I'm a soldier so fools like you, who do not appreciate what you have and the people who give it to you, will never have to experience the shit i've seen overseas. You're welcome.

Many fools like me, with my name have fought in wars long before
you were arround sonny, my family has left blood and body parts all over this planet. WW1, WW11, Korea, Congo, Cyprus, and Bosnia, so I don,t want to hear and don,t have to take any of your prepupesant lip.My defence Minister will do what we the people tell him to do. And as for the hardships and lack of equipment you have had to endure well that just builds character. And I,m not the pacivist you think I am, and I appreciate what I have more than you can understand and your ass belongs to the people of Canada read your articles shithead.
:)
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Article out of Afghanistan

the caracal kid said:
correct, however the parlement should remain open to debate on the issue at hand. Following a course of action without reflection is just as dangerous as mob rule.

Agreed.
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
2
38
The biggest coup the UN ever did was award Lester Pearson a Peace Prize.
Ever since various Prime Ministers have spent billions around the world doing "Peace Keeping". All hoping to snag a Peace Prize for themselves. The military was degraded but troops were found to serve in Peace Keeping roles, sometimes for decades.
If ever a place needed peacekeepers it is Darfur in the Sudan. First somebody has to make peace. Well leave the fighting to the Americans. They are tied up right now but Kofi can wait. Millions more will die but so what? Then when all is settled the Left will agree peace keepers should go there. The Left never agrees that peace has to be won first by going to war. They vilify those who do, and then they prance around patting themselves on the shoulders when called upon to peacekeep. See we are Peace Keepers not Peace Makers.
Everytime Jack Layton questions Nato member Canada's commitment terrorists around the world toast him. The Taliban appreciates any help they can get to enslave the women again, re-apply Sharia.