Government Fails to Reject Private Care

[FiveParadox]

The Government of Canada, under the leadership of the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, the Prime Minister of Canada, is hesitating on the issue of two-tiered health care in Canada. It is frighteningly conceivable that the Canada Health Act could be in jeopardy.

Yesterday, Ralph Klein, the Premier of the Province of Alberta, released his strategy in relation to health care; among the provisions, the Premier wishes to implement a system whereby doctors could freely jump back and forth between the public and private systems, diverting necessary resources into the private sector.

Under the Premier's suggestions, the rich would have the right to jump the queue and purchase private health care, whereas those without the funds would be required to wait for care in what would be a starved public system under these guidelines, for days, weeks, months, or even longer.

Mr. Harper has refused to denounce the strategy, as has the Honourable Tony Clement, the Minister of Health.

:!: (Revision)
I had mistakenly granted Mr. Klein the title of "Honourable" — however, since he was never inducted into Her Majesty's Privy Council for Canada he is not entitled to the style outside of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta.

 

[Finder]

I know it's not Politically correct these days to support a strong Puplic health care system, well screw everyone because this type of system was already in Canada and we fought long and hard for the puplic system. I guess we just have to learn our lessions again. Of course Poor families who have been propagandized into believing this will help them from Neo-Con's will learn as they can only afford a second rate system now. They will see they will also get second rate docs and they will get second rate service as the rich and the upper middle class get the best service.... ho hum, back to the days of the indestrial revolution.

 

[FiveParadox]

If it were to come down to forcing changes to the Canada Health Act, I would hope that the Senate of Canada would take every step in its power to prevent the passage of any such legislative measures. In advance, Finder, you are probably about to rebut on the basis of our past electoral discussions of the Senate and its current form, but I would be completely in favour of the Senate dusting off the procedure books and kicking the House of Commons in the ass on this one — if, of course, negative reforms to the CHA were to be precipitated.

 

[Finder]

I'm not going to disagree with you that they should but you know as well as I that if they do it may cause a type of constitutional crisis which I don't even want. Because a Senate in the shadows right now and generally ignored by Canadians allows them to some moderate work. If they get the spot light placed on them and if some Social Democrats and even Conservatives shout out about an unelected body having sway over policy in Canada... Well the Senate may not be reformed but abolished as some have wanted in all three parties. I don't want that I want Senate reform. So yeah I hope they would send the bill back to the house for revision but at the same time they would have to pass it if it came back.

Yes I'm still for a stronger senate when elected.

 

[Jersay]

Harper is a King Klein lackey. ANd Canada is about to go down the toilet unless he is taKEN out of office.

 

[Jay]

I know it's not Politically correct these days to support a strong Puplic health care system, well screw everyone because this type of system was already in Canada and we fought long and hard for the puplic system.

You guys fought long and hard for oppressive care systems and long waiting times?


Why?

 

[Jersay]

Because everyone gets treated, Universal, no matter what they earn.

Private, poor people don't get any medical care, just like in America.

And because the majority of Canadians want Public health care, even in Alberta, the COnservatives will lose if they can't keep it at least moderately public, and a small private system.

 

[Jay]

http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/story/to-hospital20050429.html

The people who allow this to happen should be charged with negligence causing death and so should the people who support this lunacy.

I guess we will be building lots of jails and CanadainContent membership will drop dramatically, because the half of you are complicit in this.

 

[Jersay]

And with private care, they wouldn't even let him in.

SO I guess the other side of Canadian Content can say good bye.

 

[Jay]

It's not even close to true.

 

[FiveParadox]

Heh, no, charges should not be made for legislative measures are made in the House of Commons; such is the premise of parliamentary privilege, and the right of citizens to express their support for a certain strategy in the House.

And Jay, what exactly is not true? That citizens who aren't able to pay would be denied from private centres? That the resources to the publicly-funded centres would be diverted by doctors jumping the fence to private centres?

The Canada Health Act must be protected.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Government Fails to Reject Private Care

And Jay, what exactly is not true? That citizens who aren't able to pay would be denied from private centres? That the resources to the publicly-funded centres would be diverted by doctors jumping the fence to private centres?

The Canada Health Act must be protected.

It isn't my fault that the people who support this lunacy have no imagination and can only support the current Liberal idea of a healthcare system.

There is more than one way to skin a kitty cat.

The Canadian Health Act shouldn't even exist....neither should the position of "Federal health Minister".

 

[FiveParadox]

It is accepted, by convention, that the Government of Canada should work in co-operation with the Provinces to ensure that citizens receive the kind of services, in relation to health care, that they want. It doesn't matter if you don't think the Canada Health Act shouldn't exist in the least — because, the fact is, it does appear in the Statutes of Canada and, therefore, is law in Canada.

 

[Jay]

And it can be pulled out just as easily.

 

[Knoss]

biased intor but in way accurate. This means that the public system will have to compeate with the system. This will mean two things.

1. the public system must improve services and the private system keep cost down to compete

2. those who select the private system will reduce strain on the public system

In the case of Alberta or any Candian province, docters in both sysems could mean that a doctor can run a private clinic and work in a hospital, say on weekends, or standby.

 

[#juan]

2. those who select the private system will reduce strain on the public system

What poppycock!! Where are the doctors going to come from? If doctors leave the public system, the public system will get worse. Doctors and nurses and other professionals will be more in demand and service will decline. Any fool can see that.

 

[MMMike]

2. those who select the private system will reduce strain on the public system

What poppycock!! Where are the doctors going to come from? If doctors leave the public system, the public system will get worse. Doctors and nurses and other professionals will be more in demand and service will decline. Any fool can see that.

The shortage in operating rooms and diagnostic equipment is even more acute than the shortage in doctors. Ask any surgeon and they'll tell you under the current system they can only get a few hours of operating time every week. If we can provide an infusion of private capital and open new operating rooms, surgeons can start to make more use of their talents rather than our socialist system of rationing we have now.

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: Government Fails to Reject Private Care

It is accepted, by convention, that the Government of Canada should work in co-operation with the Provinces to ensure that citizens receive the kind of services, in relation to health care, that they want. It doesn't matter if you don't think the Canada Health Act shouldn't exist in the least — because, the fact is, it does appear in the Statutes of Canada and, therefore, is law in Canada.

I have no problem with a Canada Health Act that sets out certain minimum standards of universality, wait times etc. But Health Care is a Provincial responsibility!! Give the provinces complete leeway as to how they will meet those minimum standards. You act like the provincial governments are somehow not responsible or accountable! I suggest to you that they are much more directly accountable to their residents than Ottawa is.

There are much better models out there: look at the European model: they have private, parallel systems and much better health outcomes than here!

Down with socialist healthcare!

 

[Finder]

I know it's not Politically correct these days to support a strong Puplic health care system, well screw everyone because this type of system was already in Canada and we fought long and hard for the puplic system.

You guys fought long and hard for oppressive care systems and long waiting times?


Why?

waiting times was caused by the cuts to health care which was a crisis in health care born from Liberals and Conservatives who wished to make the crisis. In Ontario the only reason we have one is because of Harris cuts to beds, staff and nurse's in the late 90's. This wasn't the faulure of the puplic system by a government which threw a rench into the mech and blamed the mech for breaking down.

 

[JomZ]

Hey Finder,

Did you see all this going on in the Ont. Legislature as well.

TORONTO -- Doomsday scenarios painted by unions over changes to the way health services are administered in Ontario should not be believed, the health minister said yesterday as his Liberal government used its majority to push through the legislated changes.

Health-care workers say the legislation, which will replace Ontario's district health councils with Liberal-appointed officials, will lead to more privatization of services, but Health Minister George Smitherman insisted that is not the case.

"I'm disappointed that there are those levels of fears," he said yesterday before the bill was passed by a 60-26 vote. The opposition parties voted against it.

Union leaders would have the public believe that "the sky is going to fall," Smitherman said, adding, "I assure you that it isn't."

Unions representing nurses and other health workers warned the bill would lead to the delivery of more health services by for-profit providers, as well as more user fees for patients.

"The legislation actively encourages the transfer of services out of the hospitals and into independent health facilities," said Linda Haslam-Stroud, president of the Ontario Nurses Association.

"Patients may have to pay out of pocket for services, for medications that would have been covered if they had been provided in the hospital."

Smitherman defended the government's decision to appoint people to local health networks instead of having them elected.

"It's appropriate that we appoint people that we think reflect the capacity that we see as important," he said.

"Those people who said they wanted to elect them, they just want to set up what works for them around here, the constant tension game."

Smitherman said the local networks will help improve health care by giving patients the opportunity to move seamlessly through the system in their communities.

The networks will gain control, he said, by having the power to decide how to spend provincial money in their district rather than leaving administration of the entire $33-billion health-care budget to provincial bureaucrats in Toronto.

Ontario's opposition parties said the bill gives the government unprecedented power to close hospitals or force them to merge with other institutions, even over the objections of the local networks.

Smitherman said he already has the power to close hospitals, but wants to put that authority into the hands of local decision makers.

"If Dalton McGuinty does not intend to use these powers, then why are they in the legislation?" asked Opposition Leader John Tory.


London Free Press ~ March 2, 2006

Ontario is taking the more indirect approach to cost controlling and privatizing health care.