Shari'a, Canadian style.

[Machjo]

Let's give it to them!

All able-bodied Canadian Muslim males would be required to serve in the military and fight Jihads for justice all over the world just as their faith requires them too.

Hey, all or nothing I say.

If they want Shari'a, then give it all. No one could argue that Canada was being anti-Muslim here since we'd effectively be forcing Muslims to live by the teachings of their own faith. So if anything, we could only be accused of giving them preferential treatment in support of their faith.

What do yo think?

 

[Machjo]

Oh, and then we could allow Muslims to enter Canada all they want. The more the better I say, that way we'd have a bigger army with which to fight for justice. My suspision though is that despite Canada's sudden oppenness to Muslim immigration, the Muslim immigration rate, at least among Muslim males, would probably drop to zilch and we'd probably even witness net emmigration of able-bodied Muslim males... Too bad.

 

[Finder]

Naaa, I think Seculerism, seperation of church and state are the best policy and allowing either Christian or Islamic law back into the state will only inbolden both to inching in even further. Belief in God, Allah or the all might cow is something personal to behold and only one who personally lives by those morals can truly follow the teachings of the Koran, bible and the cows utter. If someone is forced or coroursed (sp) as you know will happen with woman and children by the presure of there community chuch, temple or mosque then our society has done wrong and there orginized-religion has done even worse.

I think the French has always had it right. Sometime's it hurts sometimes the magority will disagree but Seculerism when it comes to the state is the only way to go and lazyness of the state should not be allowed in this area so that minorities, woman and children and even man sometimes can be protected.

 

[Said1]

You realize that doesn't make much sense. Calling Jihad would require Canadians to call for it - last time I checked non-Muslims do not do this.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: Shari'a, Canadian style.

You realize that doesn't make much sense. Fighting Jihad would require Canadians to call for it - last time I checked non-Muslims do not do this.

actually strickly speaking on certain clerics can do this and currently this is being abused in the islamic world. People like Osama arn't supposed to call Jihads and it goes against the teachings of the koran and the... Hadiths(sp). Wababism (sp) is truly a dangour to all of Islam and the world. The problem with it is Arbia is largely Wahabie (sp) at least the royal family

 

[FiveParadox]

Shari'a Law in Canada

So long as Shari'a Law is applied in a manner which is moderate and fair, I would see no reason to take any action against Muslims in Canada who would choose to live by that law — as long as, of course, doing so does not result in a violation of Canadian Statutes which should, in all cases, have precedence.

However, if two Muslim parties consent to resolve their dispute behind closed doors according to the practices and customs prescribed by Shari'a Law, I have no problem with that — that is their business. However, as Canadians are privy to freedom of and from religion, no Muslim should be forced to comply with Shari'a Law.

My two cents.

 

[Sassylassie]

I can't argue with you you seem to have your hand on the pulse of the problem. I agree Muslim Males would find some obscure Islamic tenant that would not allow them to fight, join or take part. I often wonder what would happen if the "Women of Islamic faith" held a world wide rally wearing nothing but bathing suits and demand their true Islamics Rites under Islamic law. The females seem to be the only voice that is never heard regarding Islam.

 

[Finder]

Re: Shari'a Law in Canada

So long as Shari'a Law is applied in a manner which is moderate and fair, I would see no reason to take any action against Muslims in Canada who would choose to live by that law — as long as, of course, doing so does not result in a violation of Canadian Statutes which should, in all cases, have precedence.

However, if two Muslim parties consent to resolve their dispute behind closed doors according to the practices and customs prescribed by Shari'a Law, I have no problem with that — that is their business. However, as Canadians are privy to freedom of and from religion, no Muslim should be forced to comply with Shari'a Law.

My two cents.

..... you don't understand Paradox how Woman and children can be easyly pressured into this by the Muslim community and clerics and even threatend to be kept out of the mosques and community functions if they are not to accept Shari'a.

If one person in Canada is every explouted by this system I think it's one too many, and it's something we should not allow in our society. It also creates a presidance.

I have to be 110% against such a move in Canada for Christian's or Muslim's. In theory it looks acceptable but when you include group and community dynamics it is a nightmare.

 

[Finder]

I can't argue with you you seem to have your hand on the pulse of the problem. I agree Muslim Males would find some obscure Islamic tenant that would not allow them to fight, join or take part. I often wonder what would happen if the "Women of Islamic faith" held a world wide rally wearing nothing but bathing suits and demand their true Islamics Rites under Islamic law. The females seem to be the only voice that is never heard regarding Islam.

You should not be ignorant of the fact woman often protested against the Taliban government. They had more BALLS then the men did. One radical solution in Afcan is to remove men from power and allow the woman to run the country. In a sence that kind of happend in a democratic way in Pakistan, but now the democratic woman leader was removed by the dick head general and he is supported by the USA!

 

[FiveParadox]

Finder, I would assert that we should not prevent Muslim Canadians from using Shari'a Law, if consenting parties see appropriate, in order to resolve debutes of a civil nature (for example, instead of going to Court to sue someone over a damaged fence). When you get into serious crimes or problems, though, I would argue that, of course, the Canadian justice system must be applied.

Perhaps we could come up with a way whereby two citizens could sign a paper, whereby the justice system would recognize the decision of an arbitrator, and the result of that arbitration would be referred to the Court and subsequently the recommended sentence of the arbitrator be considered and administered as the Court may see fit?

This way, it would open similar civil law proceedings to other persons' beliefs in relation to the law, while providing for a Court review of the decisions made to ensure that they comply with Canadian precedents (for example, the Court would dismiss a recommendation for a three-year sentence in prison for something like taking a chocolate bar, and impose a new sentence as the Court would see appropriate).

Obviously, there would have to be certain "safeguards" in place to ensure that such a thing would not bring about the abuse, or unfair treatment, of men, women or children in any case or situation. To be clear, I would never suggest that serious crimes be tried according to any secular practices — Canadian statutes and precedents must apply when it comes to serious crimes.

Just throwing out random ideas here. Trying to see both sides, you know?

 

[Sassylassie]

Finder; what news channel are you watching? Freedom of speech for women in Pakistan, that left me speechless. The crimes against women by males in Pakistan is horrific, why because they can. Women protesting the Taliban--yea sure, they still have religious police trolling the country waiting to abuse a woman for looking in the wrong direction.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Shari'a, Canadian style.

You realize that doesn't make much sense. Fighting Jihad would require Canadians to call for it - last time I checked non-Muslims do not do this.

actually strickly speaking on certain clerics can do this and currently this is being abused in the islamic world. People like Osama arn't supposed to call Jihads and it goes against the teachings of the koran and the... Hadiths(sp). Wababism (sp) is truly a dangour to all of Islam and the world. The problem with it is Arbia is largely Wahabie (sp) at least the royal family

I'm aware of that. The point still stands, non-Muslims to not fight Jihad etc.

Also, Fataw (or whatever it is) is often called via fax and e-mail in Egypt as well. They are not Wahabis, just extremists. I'm sure the same thing goes in Iran as well.

 

[Colpy]

Re: Shari'a Law in Canada

So long as Shari'a Law is applied in a manner which is moderate and fair, I would see no reason to take any action against Muslims in Canada who would choose to live by that law — as long as, of course, doing so does not result in a violation of Canadian Statutes which should, in all cases, have precedence.

However, if two Muslim parties consent to resolve their dispute behind closed doors according to the practices and customs prescribed by Shari'a Law, I have no problem with that — that is their business. However, as Canadians are privy to freedom of and from religion, no Muslim should be forced to comply with Shari'a Law.

My two cents.

Five, your idealism sometimes wears a little, tiny bit on my nerves.

Here's a wake-up call. In Afghanistan, before the US invasion, and under sharia law, there was a great debate about homosexuals. The question was; should they be thrown from high places or crushed under tons of rock? I'm not making this up.

Unfortunately, our idiot multicultural society encourages immigrants to "form their own communities". The pressure for a woman from such a community to submit to unfair judgements from sharia courts would be overwhelming.

We need to pull our heads out of our collective butts and see Islam and Sharia law for what they are; philosophies stuck in the Middle Ages, the enemy of freedom, to be tolerated, but only just, and never to be given legal sway over our own traditions.

 

[DasFX]

One set of laws for one people. You want Islamic law, move to an Islamic nation, you want Jewish law, move to a Jewish state.

Instituting a different set of laws is not part of retaining one's heritage. Why can't Canada just say no, what is wrong with our current laws?

 

[Doryman]

Re: Shari'a Law in Canada

So long as Shari'a Law is applied in a manner which is moderate and fair, I would see no reason to take any action against Muslims in Canada who would choose to live by that law — as long as, of course, doing so does not result in a violation of Canadian Statutes which should, in all cases, have precedence.

However, if two Muslim parties consent to resolve their dispute behind closed doors according to the practices and customs prescribed by Shari'a Law, I have no problem with that — that is their business. However, as Canadians are privy to freedom of and from religion, no Muslim should be forced to comply with Shari'a Law.

My two cents.

Five, your idealism sometimes wears a little, tiny bit on my nerves.

Here's a wake-up call. In Afghanistan, before the US invasion, and under sharia law, there was a great debate about homosexuals. The question was; should they be thrown from high places or crushed under tons of rock? I'm not making this up.

Unfortunately, our idiot multicultural society encourages immigrants to "form their own communities". The pressure for a woman from such a community to submit to unfair judgements from sharia courts would be overwhelming.

We need to pull our heads out of our collective butts and see Islam and Sharia law for what they are; philosophies stuck in the Middle Ages, the enemy of freedom, to be tolerated, but only just, and never to be given legal sway over our own traditions.

Heartily agreed!

I'm also reminded of an incident last year where a young woman in Pakistan I believe ( I know it was a Muslim country) happened to get herself pregnant before marriage. For this ungodly crime, she was legally sentenced by a judge to be gang-raped to death.

GANG.

RAPED.

TO.

DEATH.


But y'know, if they want to do it in their own homes, and there's consent from the community, we really can't say no, can we, because we're Canadian and multicultural and ever so accepting and....

How about we stick with our own laws.

 

[Said1]

A muslim was locked in her basement, by her brother for acting "trashy". I'm not sure how long she was down there, but people actually thought she was missing.

Oh, this was in Ottawa.

 

[Said1]

In retrospect, I guess this sort these sort of crimes happen everyday in every country. I wonder how many aren't committed in the name of Sharia law?

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: Shari'a, Canadian style.

In retrospect, I guess this sort these sort of crimes happen everyday in every country. I wonder how many aren't committed in the name of Sharia law?

Definitely. But I still don't want them legislated as legal punishments.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Shari'a, Canadian style.

In retrospect, I guess this sort these sort of crimes happen everyday in every country. I wonder how many aren't committed in the name of Sharia law?

Definitely. But I still don't want them legislated as legal punishments.

Righto. It goes against one of our most fundamental freedoms, that being freedom from coercion.

 

[Machjo]

But hey, these Muslims know their Qur'an and they know it well. After all, they recite it day and night. OK, they do so in a language they can't even understand, but that's just a minor detail.

Besides, it's convenient for the judges who can sentence as they please and none of the innocent sheep... hummm. ... I meant Muslims, can criticise.