Police support Gun Registry

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
OTTAWA (CP) - The head of Canada's police chiefs says he will impress upon the new government the merits of the national gun registry, a much-maligned system the Conservatives have promised to scrap.

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Jack Ewatski, president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, said he wants to open a dialogue on firearms with the ministers to be named early next month to the justice and public safety portfolios.

"We will certainly give this government some history relative to why we supported the gun legislation and gun control, including the registry, over the years," Ewatski said in an interview.

"I think it's imperative that we also provide some information to this government relative to the value of gun control programs within this country, including the registry."

The federal requirement to register shotguns and hunting rifles, initiated by the Liberals in 1995, has long rankled critics who say it is a wasteful exercise that does not reduce firearms-related crime.

A 2002 report by the federal auditor general put the computerized registry's price-tag at $1 billion, a figure that dwarfed the original $2-million estimate and further riled opponents of the measure.

Relatives of shooting victims spoke out during the recent election campaign, warning it would be a "grave error" to dismantle the registry.

But the police chiefs, who have historically backed the program, remained silent.

Ewatski, chief of the Winnipeg Police Service, stopped short of saying the association would now lobby the Tories to keep the registry.

But he made it clear the chiefs still see value in the initiative.

Ewatski said statistics show police officers electronically query the registry about 2,000 times a day, which can, for instance, help them determine whether guns are in a house they are about to enter.

"We take the approach in policing that information is the lifeblood of our work," he said. "And the more information our front-line officers have on the streets to do their job, the better prepared they are to deal with situations of public safety as well as officer safety."

Saskatchewan Conservative MP Garry Breitkreuz, a vociferous critic of the registry, questions the notion that thousands of police benefit from it daily.

Breitkreuz argues many of those officers are actually looking for other information - not firearms data - when they log onto the computerized banks.

He insists the firearms registry, which lists more than seven million guns, is not a cost-effective tool.

"It's of no use to the police right now," Breitkreuz said.

"It's really not achieving what they promised it would do. It is a paper-pushing exercise that does not affect the criminal who's going to use a firearm."

The Conservatives plan to retain the seven-decade-old registry of handguns, dismantling only the tracking system for long guns ushered in during the 1990s.

The Tories, who won a slim minority at the polls, have also promised tougher mandatory sentences for firearms crimes.

Money now spent on the registry would be used to hire more police.

Breitkreuz said it's difficult to crunch numbers because "we have been completely frustrated" by the government in obtaining complete cost figures.

"I guess once we take a look at the books we'll know exactly what's going on."

It's unclear whether legislation, and therefore adequate support in the Commons, would be needed to dismantle the registry.

For his part, Breitkreuz sees no wiggle room on the Tory promise.

"We've got a commitment made, and there's no reason not to keep it."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/2006...SFvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
the conservative approach is to use-up more man-flesh since replacing people is cheaper than more proactive approaches.

we don't need more police, we need more solutions to the causes of crime.
 

Colin

New Member
Jun 20, 2005
47
0
6
Yes and gun regestry does nothing to attack the root of crime. Crime is rooted in society and its problems, not in your ownership or registration of a weapon. While I do not have anything against the gun registry, I think in a larger city it is benificial, for small towns it has little value. The main problem is that it is costing more and more money that could and should goto tackling the issues that create crime in the first place rather then putting in one more measure that makes it marginally easier to catch someone after the fact.
 

Lost2

New Member
Dec 29, 2005
5
0
1
British Columbia
All a person has to do is look at Toronto, Vancouver or any other major city to see that the gun registry is a useless and expensive policy. Use the money to fight the cause and forget the six figure beaucrats that are trying to run this waste of time.
 

iamcanadian

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
730
0
16
www.expose-ontario.org
They had better support the Gun Registry or the Bureaucrats that manage the Gun Registry and the Police Budgets will cut back Police Budgets in retaliation for undermining their activities.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
So long as the Conservative Party of Canada does not attempt to demand that the Opposition comply with a motion to dismantle the registry, they should be okay.
 

Gerald24

New Member
Jan 29, 2006
34
0
6
Red Earth Creek
The Gun Registry is a complete Joke , I live on an Indian reserve and the RCMP come out here and give out FAC's like they were Canadian tire funny money. They are exempt from some of the conditions put on the rest of Canadians, I have talked to the Game Wardens about this and they say there hands are tied.
And regards to Handguns, they have been in the regisrtry for the past 70 years and we still have criminals getting them from the USA. The long gun issue, besides maybe stopping a few sucides what has that accomplished. I for one can put a price on life , if a few people want to do themselves in so be it ,but I am not willing to keep putting in billions of dollars to save a few. If that was the case then they should totally band Alcohol and smoking completely.
 

iamcanadian

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
730
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www.expose-ontario.org
Re: RE: Police support Gun Registry

FiveParadox said:
So long as the Conservative Party of Canada does not attempt to demand that the Opposition comply with a motion to dismantle the registry, they should be okay.

It's a minority government. They can't demand anything from anyone. The three other parties together have the majority say in all government decisions.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Jack Ewatski, president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police,

I would like to add that the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police in no way represents the average cop who is actually on the street.

Chiefs of Police are politicians by nature.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Merit of the Registry

If the highest-ranking members of our law enforcement agencies are advocating for the retention of the registry, perhaps we should pay their advice some attention, eh? It was the officers at the border requesting arms that led to the Honourable Prime Minister-Designate supporting arming our border officers, so would the same logic not apply here? If our officers are requesting that the registry be retained, should we not comply?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Re: Merit of the Registry

FiveParadox said:
If the highest-ranking members of our law enforcement agencies are advocating for the retention of the registry, perhaps we should pay their advice some attention, eh? It was the officers at the border requesting arms that led to the Honourable Prime Minister-Designate supporting arming our border officers, so would the same logic not apply here? If our officers are requesting that the registry be retained, should we not comply?

Hey Five!

It is not the officers that are requesting retention of the registry, it is the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police (CACP).

I know a number of police officers, not one of whom has any use whatsoever for the registry.

And even if they did, a society in which the police dictate policy is known as a police state.

Now, I know a significant portion of officers do like the registry, especially officers from large urban communities that have never used firearms off-duty. They have a tough job, and would approve of any measure that made it easier..........which is why their views must be regarded as self-serving ..........

I too am in a job in which criminal use of firearms endangers me......in ways more than it endangers the police, as the police hunt the bad guys......the bad guys hunt us.

But I am not so foolish as to believe the registry helps.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
The registry is a farce....provinces like Alberta refuse to go after gun owners who have not registered. I would advocate a system whereby provinces can set their own gun laws, if the folks of Ontario want to ban all handguns and register hunters and collectors then let them foot their own bill. Here in Alberta and many other provinces people have no need for the registry so we should be able to set our own laws...... a system similar to the US would work.
 

iamcanadian

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
730
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www.expose-ontario.org
Re: Merit of the Registry

FiveParadox said:
If the highest-ranking members of our law enforcement agencies are advocating...


When high-ranking members of any Canadian Bureaucracy advocate something you know there is some scam in the works. Whatever gets them more money to play with is what's advocate.

The more work they make for themselves, then the more money and power and extra jobs to give away to their friends and relatives, with expansion for their bureaucracies and influence.

They are the last people the people should listen to.
 

Freethinker

Electoral Member
Jan 18, 2006
315
0
16
RE: Police support Gun Re

I never would have started the gun registry, the startup costs were just not worth the return.

But now the startup costs have been paid. The cost going forward is a small fraction now that it is in maintenance mode. It would be simply politics as usual to shut it down now. Scoring political points without saving any real money.
 

iamcanadian

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
730
0
16
www.expose-ontario.org
Re: RE: Police support Gun Re

Freethinker said:
I never would have started the gun registry, the startup costs were just not worth the return.

But now the startup costs have been paid. The cost going forward is a small fraction now that it is in maintenance mode. It would be simply politics as usual to shut it down now. Scoring political points without saving any real money.

I would be happy if they simply fired everyone that had anything to do with it.

That would turn an expense into a long term investment and recoop the dollars from savings obtained from future new activities these bureaucrats will otherwise do the same with.
 

Dunkin

New Member
Jan 18, 2006
20
0
1
Calgary
www.pissed.ca
I still think they should shut it down. Its just a big embarassment for Canada. A joke of a gun registry. Whats the compiance with it anyways? under 50%?

That money could have been used for more police.
 

karra

Ranter
Jan 3, 2006
158
3
18
here, there, and everywher
Without a doubt the flatfoot bosses are political - the average cop on the street has absolutely no use for this useless piece of 'cash & grab' legislation - one need only look at the current el-Presidente - Jack Ewatski who hails from Loserpeg, an island quite unique unto itself re corruption and brutality and other stuff. . . .

But, read on. . . .

The head of Canada's police chiefs seems to support the registry as evidenced here:
"We will certainly give this government some history relative to why we supported the gun legislation and gun control, including the registry, over the years," Ewatski said in an interview.
"I think it's imperative that we also provide some information to this government relative to the value of gun control programs within this country, including the registry."

Followed by. . . .

"I, too, am concerned over the cost effectiveness of certain aspects of the bill (C-68) and I intend to seek clarification relative to costs that have been discussed in the media. ... I do not believe in 'blind support' of anything and it is imperative I receive accurate information and then base my opinions on that alone." -- The Edmonton Journal, August 6, 1999. Page A1

Want to read more about opinions today v. recent opinions. . . .

"We just can't find any evidence ... (that registering guns), especially in our rural areas, (is) going to really remove the guns from the criminals ... Ten years down the road, we believe that it will not prove effective." -- Greg McCullagh, head of the Saskatchewan Chiefs of Police Association, The Montreal Gazette, August 25, 1995
"Almost a quarter of people cops apprehend with guns are already prohibited from carrying firearms as a result of a previous conviction. ... It's quite apparent that for those individuals those prohibitions have very little effect" -- Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair, Toronto Sun, August 5, 2005
"Our investigators are encountering situations where registration information isn't accurate ... It has to be cost-efficient, or else in our opinion, the money could be better spent." -- Calgary chief of police Jack Beaton, Calgary Herald, June 2, 2004
"We have spent an extraordinary amount of money in this one area [the gun registry], but we haven't given the same attention with regards to gun crime in our society." Former Toronto chief of police Julian Fantino, Toronto Star, March 10, 2004.
"It wouldn't be right to charge someone when we wouldn't have a reasonable chance of getting a conviction," Kaye said. At a meeting in Halton Hills this week, the executive of the chiefs' association voted to send a letter suggesting the federal government put the registry on hold until the problems are resolved. "When the registry was first proposed, the government came to us looking for support; if we are going to maintain that level of support, we want some answers about what's going on," Kaye said. -- Toronto Star, January 25, 2003
Kaye is president of the 66-member Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police.
"That's something we're struggling with as chiefs across the province. I don't see (the need), given its massive costs. ... the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police were assured that the program's cost wouldn't top $800 million and it is now nearly a billion and the deadlines keep changing. It's nearly impossible to enforce. ... [the money] would have been better spent working to bring criminals to justice and by funding joint force operations that police forces deal with daily and by providing the resources we need to deal with organized crime and criminals. ... we've been registering handguns since 1933... Clearly, it's not working." -- Marshall Chalmers, Camrose Police Chief, The Camrose Canadian, February 2, 2003
"There's a benefit if every single gun in Canada is registered ... But the flaw in the whole thing is that criminals aren't going to register theirs. I see some value in it, but the value I see, the amount of benefit, does not justify the amount of money spent on it. ... Holistically, it started out as a good idea, but I'd never argue that our streets are any safer because of federal gun legislation." -- Kingston Police Chief Bill Closs, The Kingston Whig-Standard, January 20, 2003

"The amount of money that has been spent on this registry would be better invested in front-line policing" -- Bruce Miller, spokesman for the Police Association of Ontario, Ottawa Citizen, December 5, 2002.
 

Ten Packs

Council Member
Nov 21, 2004
1,505
5
38
Kamloops BC
Re: Merit of the Registry

FiveParadox said:
It was the officers at the border requesting arms that led to the Honourable Prime Minister-Designate supporting arming our border officers, so would the same logic not apply here?

I would be most grateful if someone can make the slightest connection between the two subjects for me - one is about ARMING a group heavily involved in the security of the country; the other is about tracking duck-hunters and farmers with "varmint-guns".


I realize its your sworn duty to spin anything and everything the Liberals do, Five, but really now ....... :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
RE: Police support Gun Re

more police does not solve crime. it reacts to crime.

money is better invested in pre-emtive programs than on armed thugs.

Look at WHY guns are used and reduce those reasons. That is a neccessary part of the solution.