Police support Gun Registry


Jersay
#1
OTTAWA (CP) - The head of Canada's police chiefs says he will impress upon the new government the merits of the national gun registry, a much-maligned system the Conservatives have promised to scrap.

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Jack Ewatski, president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, said he wants to open a dialogue on firearms with the ministers to be named early next month to the justice and public safety portfolios.

"We will certainly give this government some history relative to why we supported the gun legislation and gun control, including the registry, over the years," Ewatski said in an interview.

"I think it's imperative that we also provide some information to this government relative to the value of gun control programs within this country, including the registry."

The federal requirement to register shotguns and hunting rifles, initiated by the Liberals in 1995, has long rankled critics who say it is a wasteful exercise that does not reduce firearms-related crime.

A 2002 report by the federal auditor general put the computerized registry's price-tag at $1 billion, a figure that dwarfed the original $2-million estimate and further riled opponents of the measure.

Relatives of shooting victims spoke out during the recent election campaign, warning it would be a "grave error" to dismantle the registry.

But the police chiefs, who have historically backed the program, remained silent.

Ewatski, chief of the Winnipeg Police Service, stopped short of saying the association would now lobby the Tories to keep the registry.

But he made it clear the chiefs still see value in the initiative.

Ewatski said statistics show police officers electronically query the registry about 2,000 times a day, which can, for instance, help them determine whether guns are in a house they are about to enter.

"We take the approach in policing that information is the lifeblood of our work," he said. "And the more information our front-line officers have on the streets to do their job, the better prepared they are to deal with situations of public safety as well as officer safety."

Saskatchewan Conservative MP Garry Breitkreuz, a vociferous critic of the registry, questions the notion that thousands of police benefit from it daily.

Breitkreuz argues many of those officers are actually looking for other information - not firearms data - when they log onto the computerized banks.

He insists the firearms registry, which lists more than seven million guns, is not a cost-effective tool.

"It's of no use to the police right now," Breitkreuz said.

"It's really not achieving what they promised it would do. It is a paper-pushing exercise that does not affect the criminal who's going to use a firearm."

The Conservatives plan to retain the seven-decade-old registry of handguns, dismantling only the tracking system for long guns ushered in during the 1990s.

The Tories, who won a slim minority at the polls, have also promised tougher mandatory sentences for firearms crimes.

Money now spent on the registry would be used to hire more police.

Breitkreuz said it's difficult to crunch numbers because "we have been completely frustrated" by the government in obtaining complete cost figures.

"I guess once we take a look at the books we'll know exactly what's going on."

It's unclear whether legislation, and therefore adequate support in the Commons, would be needed to dismantle the registry.

For his part, Breitkreuz sees no wiggle room on the Tory promise.

"We've got a commitment made, and there's no reason not to keep it."

--
 
the caracal kid
Avatar
#2
the conservative approach is to use-up more man-flesh since replacing people is cheaper than more proactive approaches.

we don't need more police, we need more solutions to the causes of crime.
 
Colin
#3
Yes and gun regestry does nothing to attack the root of crime. Crime is rooted in society and its problems, not in your ownership or registration of a weapon. While I do not have anything against the gun registry, I think in a larger city it is benificial, for small towns it has little value. The main problem is that it is costing more and more money that could and should goto tackling the issues that create crime in the first place rather then putting in one more measure that makes it marginally easier to catch someone after the fact.
 
Lost2
#4
All a person has to do is look at Toronto, Vancouver or any other major city to see that the gun registry is a useless and expensive policy. Use the money to fight the cause and forget the six figure beaucrats that are trying to run this waste of time.
 
iamcanadian
#5
They had better support the Gun Registry or the Bureaucrats that manage the Gun Registry and the Police Budgets will cut back Police Budgets in retaliation for undermining their activities.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
Avatar
#6
So long as the Conservative Party of Canada does not attempt to demand that the Opposition comply with a motion to dismantle the registry, they should be okay.
 
Gerald24
#7
The Gun Registry is a complete Joke , I live on an Indian reserve and the RCMP come out here and give out FAC's like they were Canadian tire funny money. They are exempt from some of the conditions put on the rest of Canadians, I have talked to the Game Wardens about this and they say there hands are tied.
And regards to Handguns, they have been in the regisrtry for the past 70 years and we still have criminals getting them from the USA. The long gun issue, besides maybe stopping a few sucides what has that accomplished. I for one can put a price on life , if a few people want to do themselves in so be it ,but I am not willing to keep putting in billions of dollars to save a few. If that was the case then they should totally band Alcohol and smoking completely.
 
iamcanadian
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

So long as the Conservative Party of Canada does not attempt to demand that the Opposition comply with a motion to dismantle the registry, they should be okay.

It's a minority government. They can't demand anything from anyone. The three other parties together have the majority say in all government decisions.
 
Colpy
Conservative
Avatar
#9
Quote:

Jack Ewatski, president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police,

I would like to add that the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police in no way represents the average cop who is actually on the street.

Chiefs of Police are politicians by nature.
 
Ten Packs
#10
I have know THREE retired RCMP - each of them thinks the whole thing is a complete farce.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
Avatar
#11
If the highest-ranking members of our law enforcement agencies are advocating for the retention of the registry, perhaps we should pay their advice some attention, eh? It was the officers at the border requesting arms that led to the Honourable Prime Minister-Designate supporting arming our border officers, so would the same logic not apply here? If our officers are requesting that the registry be retained, should we not comply?
 
Colpy
Conservative
Avatar
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

If the highest-ranking members of our law enforcement agencies are advocating for the retention of the registry, perhaps we should pay their advice some attention, eh? It was the officers at the border requesting arms that led to the Honourable Prime Minister-Designate supporting arming our border officers, so would the same logic not apply here? If our officers are requesting that the registry be retained, should we not comply?

Hey Five!

It is not the officers that are requesting retention of the registry, it is the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police (CACP).

I know a number of police officers, not one of whom has any use whatsoever for the registry.

And even if they did, a society in which the police dictate policy is known as a police state.

Now, I know a significant portion of officers do like the registry, especially officers from large urban communities that have never used firearms off-duty. They have a tough job, and would approve of any measure that made it easier..........which is why their views must be regarded as self-serving ..........

I too am in a job in which criminal use of firearms endangers me......in ways more than it endangers the police, as the police hunt the bad guys......the bad guys hunt us.

But I am not so foolish as to believe the registry helps.
 
Hank C
#13
The registry is a farce....provinces like Alberta refuse to go after gun owners who have not registered. I would advocate a system whereby provinces can set their own gun laws, if the folks of Ontario want to ban all handguns and register hunters and collectors then let them foot their own bill. Here in Alberta and many other provinces people have no need for the registry so we should be able to set our own laws...... a system similar to the US would work.
 
iamcanadian
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

If the highest-ranking members of our law enforcement agencies are advocating...


When high-ranking members of any Canadian Bureaucracy advocate something you know there is some scam in the works. Whatever gets them more money to play with is what's advocate.

The more work they make for themselves, then the more money and power and extra jobs to give away to their friends and relatives, with expansion for their bureaucracies and influence.

They are the last people the people should listen to.
 
Freethinker
#15
I never would have started the gun registry, the startup costs were just not worth the return.

But now the startup costs have been paid. The cost going forward is a small fraction now that it is in maintenance mode. It would be simply politics as usual to shut it down now. Scoring political points without saving any real money.
 
iamcanadian
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Freethinker

I never would have started the gun registry, the startup costs were just not worth the return.

But now the startup costs have been paid. The cost going forward is a small fraction now that it is in maintenance mode. It would be simply politics as usual to shut it down now. Scoring political points without saving any real money.

I would be happy if they simply fired everyone that had anything to do with it.

That would turn an expense into a long term investment and recoop the dollars from savings obtained from future new activities these bureaucrats will otherwise do the same with.
 
Dunkin
#17
I still think they should shut it down. Its just a big embarassment for Canada. A joke of a gun registry. Whats the compiance with it anyways? under 50%?

That money could have been used for more police.
 
karra
Conservative
Avatar
#18
Without a doubt the flatfoot bosses are political - the average cop on the street has absolutely no use for this useless piece of 'cash & grab' legislation - one need only look at the current el-Presidente - Jack Ewatski who hails from Loserpeg, an island quite unique unto itself re corruption and brutality and other stuff. . . .

But, read on. . . .

Quote:

The head of Canada's police chiefs seems to support the registry as evidenced here:
"We will certainly give this government some history relative to why we supported the gun legislation and gun control, including the registry, over the years," Ewatski said in an interview.
"I think it's imperative that we also provide some information to this government relative to the value of gun control programs within this country, including the registry."

Followed by. . . .

Quote:

"I, too, am concerned over the cost effectiveness of certain aspects of the bill (C-6 and I intend to seek clarification relative to costs that have been discussed in the media. ... I do not believe in 'blind support' of anything and it is imperative I receive accurate information and then base my opinions on that alone." -- The Edmonton Journal, August 6, 1999. Page A1

Want to read more about opinions today v. recent opinions. . . .

Quote:

"We just can't find any evidence ... (that registering guns), especially in our rural areas, (is) going to really remove the guns from the criminals ... Ten years down the road, we believe that it will not prove effective." -- Greg McCullagh, head of the Saskatchewan Chiefs of Police Association, The Montreal Gazette, August 25, 1995

Quote:

"Almost a quarter of people cops apprehend with guns are already prohibited from carrying firearms as a result of a previous conviction. ... It's quite apparent that for those individuals those prohibitions have very little effect" -- Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair, Toronto Sun, August 5, 2005

Quote:

"Our investigators are encountering situations where registration information isn't accurate ... It has to be cost-efficient, or else in our opinion, the money could be better spent." -- Calgary chief of police Jack Beaton, Calgary Herald, June 2, 2004

Quote:

"We have spent an extraordinary amount of money in this one area [the gun registry], but we haven't given the same attention with regards to gun crime in our society." Former Toronto chief of police Julian Fantino, Toronto Star, March 10, 2004.

Quote:

"It wouldn't be right to charge someone when we wouldn't have a reasonable chance of getting a conviction," Kaye said. At a meeting in Halton Hills this week, the executive of the chiefs' association voted to send a letter suggesting the federal government put the registry on hold until the problems are resolved. "When the registry was first proposed, the government came to us looking for support; if we are going to maintain that level of support, we want some answers about what's going on," Kaye said. -- Toronto Star, January 25, 2003
Kaye is president of the 66-member Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police.

Quote:

"That's something we're struggling with as chiefs across the province. I don't see (the need), given its massive costs. ... the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police were assured that the program's cost wouldn't top $800 million and it is now nearly a billion and the deadlines keep changing. It's nearly impossible to enforce. ... [the money] would have been better spent working to bring criminals to justice and by funding joint force operations that police forces deal with daily and by providing the resources we need to deal with organized crime and criminals. ... we've been registering handguns since 1933... Clearly, it's not working." -- Marshall Chalmers, Camrose Police Chief, The Camrose Canadian, February 2, 2003

Quote:

"There's a benefit if every single gun in Canada is registered ... But the flaw in the whole thing is that criminals aren't going to register theirs. I see some value in it, but the value I see, the amount of benefit, does not justify the amount of money spent on it. ... Holistically, it started out as a good idea, but I'd never argue that our streets are any safer because of federal gun legislation." -- Kingston Police Chief Bill Closs, The Kingston Whig-Standard, January 20, 2003

Quote:

"The amount of money that has been spent on this registry would be better invested in front-line policing" -- Bruce Miller, spokesman for the Police Association of Ontario, Ottawa Citizen, December 5, 2002.

 
Ten Packs
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

It was the officers at the border requesting arms that led to the Honourable Prime Minister-Designate supporting arming our border officers, so would the same logic not apply here?

I would be most grateful if someone can make the slightest connection between the two subjects for me - one is about ARMING a group heavily involved in the security of the country; the other is about tracking duck-hunters and farmers with "varmint-guns".


I realize its your sworn duty to spin anything and everything the Liberals do, Five, but really now .......
 
the caracal kid
Avatar
#20
more police does not solve crime. it reacts to crime.

money is better invested in pre-emtive programs than on armed thugs.

Look at WHY guns are used and reduce those reasons. That is a neccessary part of the solution.
 
Ten Packs
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kid

more police does not solve crime. it reacts to crime.

money is better invested in pre-emtive programs than on armed thugs.

Look at WHY guns are used and reduce those reasons. That is a neccessary part of the solution.

Thats another good liberal idea - let's buy all teens from poor areas a new Cadillac and a handful of bling - that'll help. This concept of having parents responsible enough to raise you with rules and standards is just SO-O-O archaic - besides,rules are harmful to your "Self-Esteem"!

 
karra
Conservative
Avatar
#22
Quote:

more police does not solve crime. it reacts to crime.

How do you know that. . .

Quote:

money is better invested in pre-emtive programs than on armed thugs.

and encore I say. . . .

Quote:

Look at WHY guns are used and reduce those reasons. That is a neccessary part of the solution.

Good grief - do you really think there's a solution to be found in the answers to that question - why, I swear, most bad people I know state the reasons they use guns are for the terribly obvious reasons - which have been explored to death and beyond - none of which require this level of bureaucratic self-protectionism aka votes = hello Liberal Party of Canada. . . .

What a sorry state. . . .
 
the caracal kid
Avatar
#23
as sorry a state as it is now, it would be worse to have a government that is merely reactionary in its measures.

governments should LEAD, not REACT!

more cops is a poor investment of tax dollars compared to proactive anti-crime initiatives.

Now i am not for a gun ban, like the libbies proposed as a knee-jerk reaction to the toronto shooting, but i can see the merit in saying "for the good of society" we shall remove certian individual rights.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
Avatar
#24
An interesting assertion, Ten Packs — I have never styled myself a "spin doctor."

Nonetheless, I was simply stating that, if the Honourable Prime Minister-Designate would take the word of border officers on an appropriate strategy as being, to a degree, sacrosanct, then why should the same not apply where our non-border law enforcement officers are advocating for the retention of the registry?

I am not saying that the registry has been terribly effective — but that is not to say that it has had no effect at all. I doubt there is any way to prove, or to disprove, that the registry has, or has not, saved the lives of anyone in Canada.
 
karra
Conservative
Avatar
#25
Quote:

I doubt there is any way to prove, or to disprove, that the registry has, or has not, saved the lives of anyone in Canada.

Then why would you support its continuance - unless you also support throwing good money after bad and you don't recognise the partisan politics involved. . . .
 
Ten Packs
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

Nonetheless, I was simply stating that, if the Honourable Prime Minister-Designate would take the word of border officers on an appropriate strategy as being, to a degree, sacrosanct, then why should the same not apply where our non-border law enforcement officers are advocating for the retention of the registry?

You're right - and karra has provided HOW MANY quotes from real honest-to-goodness Police, that it's a joke?

By all means, heed their words.
 
Toro
Avatar
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by karra

Quote:

more police does not solve crime. it reacts to crime.

How do you know that. . .

That certainly hasn't been the case in many urban centers here in the United States, such as New York or New Orleans.



And well said above karra, as usual.
 
Toro
Avatar
#28
The Tories don't need a motion to kill the gun-registry. They've already said that they can defund it in the budget.
 
Citizen
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Ten Packs


Thats another good liberal idea - let's buy all teens from poor areas a new Cadillac and a handful of bling - that'll help. This concept of having parents responsible enough to raise you with rules and standards is just SO-O-O archaic - besides,rules are harmful to your "Self-Esteem"!

 
the caracal kid
Avatar
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Toro

Quote: Originally Posted by karra

Quote:

more police does not solve crime. it reacts to crime.

How do you know that. . .

That certainly hasn't been the case in many urban centers here in the United States, such as New York or New Orleans.



And well said above karra, as usual.

yeah, more cops, more people in prisons, and the crime rates...

the underlying problems remain unresolved, and as a result all you get is bigger jails stuffed with people.

A wonderful solution there... just keep locking all of "them" up and you will be rid of crime? dream on!

how about a nice conservative solution: people live in gated communities surrounded by armed protectors! Yes, thats the ticket! Anything to keep the government from taking your money to solve a problem YOU are a part of! More connie whining and bemoaning.
 

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