Do you want the new government to crack down on violent crime. Not stupid stuff like jaywalking, underage drinking, or smoking a joint. I am talking about serious stuff like murder, rape, violent robbery, and violent assault. I think criminals have it too good in this country, what do you think?
Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crime
- Thread starter Uncle_Jalapeno
- Start date
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
Do you think 6 years is an appropriate sentence for murder. I certainly don't.
Do you think 6 years is an appropriate sentence for murder. I certainly don't.
Re: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
The violent ones deserve to be victims of "social exclusion". I have absolutely no pity for any hardcore con and wish they could just rot in jail.
The violent ones deserve to be victims of "social exclusion". I have absolutely no pity for any hardcore con and wish they could just rot in jail.
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
its not the time served, but what happens during that time that matters.
lets face it, people locked away have their own social structure where they can develop even more traits deemed "negative" to the free society. Is this what we want? Don't we really want these people to come out ready to rejoin society in a positive manner?
its not the time served, but what happens during that time that matters.
lets face it, people locked away have their own social structure where they can develop even more traits deemed "negative" to the free society. Is this what we want? Don't we really want these people to come out ready to rejoin society in a positive manner?
Re: RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT
If they are murderers, no I don't want them to rejoin society "in a positive manner".
There are people who choose to be irredeemable.
I would say a majority of murderers and rapists fit that description.
the caracal kid said:
If they are murderers, no I don't want them to rejoin society "in a positive manner".
There are people who choose to be irredeemable.
I would say a majority of murderers and rapists fit that description.
Re: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
Leaving aside all the wooly issues of revenge, victims vs criminals' rights, rehabilitation, eliminating the "causes" of crime, the only way to phrase the question in a (semi)non-ideological way --since the definition of 'criminal' is necessarily an ideological one except at the extremes-- is to ask "Do longer, tougher sentences, fewer parole opportunities and things like the US"' "three strikes" laws, lower the incidence of crime?"
The answer is probably "No".
In any case, this whole "tough on crime" platform of the Cons is a con. Crime rates in Canada peaked in the early 1990s and have been declining ever since. The only thing that has risen, thanks to the media, is Canadians' fear of crime.
Leaving aside all the wooly issues of revenge, victims vs criminals' rights, rehabilitation, eliminating the "causes" of crime, the only way to phrase the question in a (semi)non-ideological way --since the definition of 'criminal' is necessarily an ideological one except at the extremes-- is to ask "Do longer, tougher sentences, fewer parole opportunities and things like the US"' "three strikes" laws, lower the incidence of crime?"
The answer is probably "No".
In any case, this whole "tough on crime" platform of the Cons is a con. Crime rates in Canada peaked in the early 1990s and have been declining ever since. The only thing that has risen, thanks to the media, is Canadians' fear of crime.
Re: RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT
EXACTLY, finally someone agrees that we should bring back daily floggings for rapists, pedos and murderers. Thank you Caracal kid, I never would have expected your support on this issue.
Harsher sentences for crimes where a victim is killed, harmed or psychologically shagged up (legitimately) is a-okay in my books.
the caracal kid said:
EXACTLY, finally someone agrees that we should bring back daily floggings for rapists, pedos and murderers. Thank you Caracal kid, I never would have expected your support on this issue.
Harsher sentences for crimes where a victim is killed, harmed or psychologically shagged up (legitimately) is a-okay in my books.
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
From the highest to the lowest province/territory,in terms of crime rates>>>>NWT.NVT,YT,SASK,MAN,BC,ALTA,PEI,NS,NB,Q,NL,...and lastly,Ontario.
Last year the national crime rate FELL by 7%,Drug crimes dropped last year by 8%.
Counterfeiting and property crime rates are up,on the previous year.
Abbotsford and Regina have the highest,per capita,crime rates.
From the highest to the lowest province/territory,in terms of crime rates>>>>NWT.NVT,YT,SASK,MAN,BC,ALTA,PEI,NS,NB,Q,NL,...and lastly,Ontario.
Last year the national crime rate FELL by 7%,Drug crimes dropped last year by 8%.
Counterfeiting and property crime rates are up,on the previous year.
Abbotsford and Regina have the highest,per capita,crime rates.
Re: RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT
You also have to take population into account here. Just because the NWT has a higher percentage of crime, doesn't mean it has MORE crime. There's like, what? 3000 people up there. Even a few crimes will drive that way up, violent crimes or not.
annabattler said:
You also have to take population into account here. Just because the NWT has a higher percentage of crime, doesn't mean it has MORE crime. There's like, what? 3000 people up there. Even a few crimes will drive that way up, violent crimes or not.
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
That's the point...it's a statistic....how else would statistics be gathered? There has to be some baseline measurement.
That's the point...it's a statistic....how else would statistics be gathered? There has to be some baseline measurement.
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
The criminal system is a joke in this country.
Take the current case of these two punks racing down Toronto streets and murdering a cab driver. They will get off with a few months or something. What the hell is negligence causing death, charge them with second degree murder!
Racing down the street and "accidentally" hitting someone is the same as me going out in the street and firing a gun randomly and "accidentally" hitting someone.
Throw the little buggers in jail... <snip> ! !
People must pay for their crimes!
The criminal system is a joke in this country.
Take the current case of these two punks racing down Toronto streets and murdering a cab driver. They will get off with a few months or something. What the hell is negligence causing death, charge them with second degree murder!
Racing down the street and "accidentally" hitting someone is the same as me going out in the street and firing a gun randomly and "accidentally" hitting someone.
Throw the little buggers in jail... <snip> ! !
People must pay for their crimes!
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
I agree. I think the reason the justice system is a joke is too protect corrupt politicians if they get caught. Worst case Ontario they get a few months in jail.
I agree. I think the reason the justice system is a joke is too protect corrupt politicians if they get caught. Worst case Ontario they get a few months in jail.
Re: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
"The overall crime rate in Canada rose steadily from 1960 to 1990, it peaked in 1990/91, then started dropping throughout the 1990s. These fluctuations are attributed in part to the "baby-boom" and "baby-boom echo", where the proportion of Canadians between the ages of 15 and 25 was very high for many years before it dropped sharply -- by 18% -- in 1991. Despite decreases in both the proportion of teens aged 15 to 19 and crime rates in the 1990s, overall rates of violent crime are still three times higher than they were in the 1960s, and rates of property crime are twice as high."
(Canadian Council on Social Development)
"While the number of all crime cases heard in Canadian youth court has dropped 20% over the last decade, violent crimes cases -- for homicide, sexual assault, assault and robbery -- have jumped 25% over the same period." (reports Statistics Canada.)
"Throughout the past decade, the trend in the rate of youth violent crime was relatively stable until it began a general increase in 2000" (Statistics Canada notes)
I definitly think we need harsher penalties for violent crimes. Especially youth crimes.
"The overall crime rate in Canada rose steadily from 1960 to 1990, it peaked in 1990/91, then started dropping throughout the 1990s. These fluctuations are attributed in part to the "baby-boom" and "baby-boom echo", where the proportion of Canadians between the ages of 15 and 25 was very high for many years before it dropped sharply -- by 18% -- in 1991. Despite decreases in both the proportion of teens aged 15 to 19 and crime rates in the 1990s, overall rates of violent crime are still three times higher than they were in the 1960s, and rates of property crime are twice as high."
(Canadian Council on Social Development)
"While the number of all crime cases heard in Canadian youth court has dropped 20% over the last decade, violent crimes cases -- for homicide, sexual assault, assault and robbery -- have jumped 25% over the same period." (reports Statistics Canada.)
"Throughout the past decade, the trend in the rate of youth violent crime was relatively stable until it began a general increase in 2000" (Statistics Canada notes)
I definitly think we need harsher penalties for violent crimes. Especially youth crimes.
Re: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
From Statistics Canada, Crimes per 100,000 poupulation
I don't see any increase in crimes. the homicide rate is the same, for all intents and purposes.
From a summary of a Texas criminal justice policy report .
But right-wingers are more interested in ideology than results, I guess.
From Statistics Canada, Crimes per 100,000 poupulation
I don't see any increase in crimes. the homicide rate is the same, for all intents and purposes.
From a summary of a Texas criminal justice policy report .
But right-wingers are more interested in ideology than results, I guess.
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
There is nothing wrong with rehabilatation but it needs to be coupled with strict punishment in order to be effective. We shouldn't reward people for bad behaviour. Harsher sentences are not a right wing ideology. If someone was proposing life sentences for weed possession that would be crazy. Life for 1st degree murder is sensible. Some criminals should never be released. This includes pedophiles, rapists, serial killers, and child killers.
There is nothing wrong with rehabilatation but it needs to be coupled with strict punishment in order to be effective. We shouldn't reward people for bad behaviour. Harsher sentences are not a right wing ideology. If someone was proposing life sentences for weed possession that would be crazy. Life for 1st degree murder is sensible. Some criminals should never be released. This includes pedophiles, rapists, serial killers, and child killers.
RE: Do you want the gover
Not to mention conditional discharges, parole after a month and other crimes our courts commit in releasing dangerous wackos.
Nobody forced you to commit the crime, why should we give you a "get out of jail free" community chest card?
Not to mention conditional discharges, parole after a month and other crimes our courts commit in releasing dangerous wackos.
Nobody forced you to commit the crime, why should we give you a "get out of jail free" community chest card?
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
uncle,
the system needs to be dynamic enough to reflect the diversity of individuals brought before it. No two killers (for example) are exactly the same and the scenarios and causes of their crimes can differ dramatically. The sentence needs to be reflective of this. If, for example, Pickton (he is now on trial here for killing 27 women from the east side of vancouver - note he is only charged with 27 because the prosecuter wants to move the case forward, they suspect him of over 60) is different from the person that kills out of a drug induced rage. Different causes, different rehabilitations, and different sentences. No person should be condemed to guaranteed lifetime imprisonment since we can NOT see how rehabilitation will work, but minimum sentences need to be reflective of specifics of each case. The "lock them all away" solution is a methodology of distancing oneself from the criminal, applying stereotypes and dehumanizing to allow the rationalization of whatever treatment occurs in an effert to diffuse any perceived threat to oneself. It however does not reduce the threat to oneself.
uncle,
the system needs to be dynamic enough to reflect the diversity of individuals brought before it. No two killers (for example) are exactly the same and the scenarios and causes of their crimes can differ dramatically. The sentence needs to be reflective of this. If, for example, Pickton (he is now on trial here for killing 27 women from the east side of vancouver - note he is only charged with 27 because the prosecuter wants to move the case forward, they suspect him of over 60) is different from the person that kills out of a drug induced rage. Different causes, different rehabilitations, and different sentences. No person should be condemed to guaranteed lifetime imprisonment since we can NOT see how rehabilitation will work, but minimum sentences need to be reflective of specifics of each case. The "lock them all away" solution is a methodology of distancing oneself from the criminal, applying stereotypes and dehumanizing to allow the rationalization of whatever treatment occurs in an effert to diffuse any perceived threat to oneself. It however does not reduce the threat to oneself.
Re: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
I thought this was an interesting view.
"Research clearly shows that people are less likely to offend when they believe they will be caught. Most chronic offenders — the ones who cause the most harm— do not believe they will be caught. Penalties, regardless of severity, have little preventive effect unless they are seen to be enforced. Visible enforcement has a greater impact on safety than simply having tough penalties on the books.
Certainty of punishment has a greater deterrent effect than severity of punishment. Hence, from a prevention standpoint, the critical factors are enforcement and conviction, rather than the nature of the penalty itself."
(source: Canada Safety Council)
I like this idea. I think we need a 2 pronged approach to the issue. Increasing scentences, is a great idea in theory, but can only work if the enforcement is actually there. And perhaps that is where we should be putting more efforts. However, stiff scentences are a must for violent crimes, not just as a deterent, but as a means of protection for society.
On that note, I also beleive that rehabilitation programs are important, as long as those programs are taking place while the offenders (especially violent) are behind bars. So as not to be a continuing risk to society while being rehabilitated.
I thought this was an interesting view.
"Research clearly shows that people are less likely to offend when they believe they will be caught. Most chronic offenders — the ones who cause the most harm— do not believe they will be caught. Penalties, regardless of severity, have little preventive effect unless they are seen to be enforced. Visible enforcement has a greater impact on safety than simply having tough penalties on the books.
Certainty of punishment has a greater deterrent effect than severity of punishment. Hence, from a prevention standpoint, the critical factors are enforcement and conviction, rather than the nature of the penalty itself."
(source: Canada Safety Council)
I like this idea. I think we need a 2 pronged approach to the issue. Increasing scentences, is a great idea in theory, but can only work if the enforcement is actually there. And perhaps that is where we should be putting more efforts. However, stiff scentences are a must for violent crimes, not just as a deterent, but as a means of protection for society.
On that note, I also beleive that rehabilitation programs are important, as long as those programs are taking place while the offenders (especially violent) are behind bars. So as not to be a continuing risk to society while being rehabilitated.
RE: Do you want the government to crack down on VIOLENT crim
^^^ Agreed rehabilitation should be used in addition to but in place of punishment and enforcement. You are right about enforcement though, the laws should be toughened up but they should also be enforced.
^^^ Agreed rehabilitation should be used in addition to but in place of punishment and enforcement. You are right about enforcement though, the laws should be toughened up but they should also be enforced.