How can I vote conservative???

[JomZ]

How can I vote conservative???

I have usually voted conservative in elections. In my riding of Ajax-Pickering, I have a new conservative person running and this has me worried as a moderate conservative.

http://www.voteholland.com/media/rondowar.mov

This was posted on the Liberal incumbents site but he feels the video speaks for itself.

I don't think I can vote conservative this time. Even the conservative party is trying to distance themselves from this guy.

 

[Jay]

So what he objects to SSM and thinks its a fight worth fighting.

This isn't unusual...There are Liberals and NDP members who hold this belief too.

 

[#juan]

This guy is carrying around

the same load of bull as Stockwell day. I wondered when the next Alliance religious zealot would raise his head.

 

[JomZ]

Re: RE: How can I vote conservative???

So what he objects to SSM and thinks its a fight worth fighting.

This isn't unusual...There are Liberals and NDP members who hold this belief too.

I am all for Rondo Thomas holding an opinion on SSM, but it is the way he conducts himself and the words he uses.

There is being ardently against this issue, and there is making this into a war between the righteous and immoral. His “crusade” against SSM derides his prospects in a Liberal stronghold like my riding. I was sceptical of him at first as a candidate but his hardline methodology towards issues makes me wonder how he stands on other issues, and not just social ones.

 

[Jay]

Well if the Liberals had handled this properly, and didn't make it into something they could use against the conservatives, we wouldn't even be discussing this.

Liberals started an “us vs them” war. Blame them.

 

[Freethinker]

How can I vote conservative???

I have usually voted conservative in elections. In my riding of Ajax-Pickering, I have a new conservative person running and this has me worried as a moderate conservative.

http://www.voteholland.com/media/rondowar.mov

Yep, Very big of Stephen Harper to have a "Free Vote" on SSM.

I think we are electing another "Uniter, not a divider here"...

 

[Jo Canadian]

 

[FiveParadox]

Funny cartoon, Jo Canadian. :lol:

As for the topic at hand, I would not vote in favour of anyone who saw fit to declare war against non-traditional sexual orientations. He scares me, to be frank.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Mee too, but really what can he do in a minority anyways. Any PM in a minority is just a figurehead rather than a force for change...At least this way the govt' may...may learn a bit more on cooperation.

 

[the caracal kid]

Jo, see my thread on the Tory stance on tax cuts. If the attitudes in that article are what we are going to see, then we will surely have a short-run minority government. The old "with us or against us" attitude is shining through, even though they only have 1/3 of the popular vote. It doesn't take too long for the heads to inflate, does it?

 

[Triple_R]

The way I see it there's an "us vs. them" mentality on both sides... and, yes, the Liberals started it. The Liberals could have wisely pushed for a gay civil union compromise, like some of the Democrats in America did (with success in Howard Dean's Vermont, for one)... but no, they wanted to force everybody to embrace something that many of them believe is inapporpriate, or even sinful. It's just more Liberal condescenion, even on personal moral issues (i.e. "If you don't agree with us, you're evil, scary, and uncanadian!").

Obviously, that is going to bring about a strong negative re-action. You guys talk about how "Stephen Harper doesn't represent me"... Well, how is a Canadian Christian who believes that homosexual sexual acts are sinful, while marriage is sacred (and hence endorsing the union of the two is wrong) represented by a Liberal government who tries to coerce that Canadian into embracing SSM, and calling him "unCanadian" if s/he fails to do so? I know many people who dislike SSM. By and large, they're not troglodytes. They're not bad people. The're not dumb people. They're good, productive Canadians, and they don't deserve to have their government trying to coerce them into doing something against their conscience.

Now, on the other hand, it would be unfair for two homosexual people who love one another, and want to spend their lives together, to be denied the benefits that typically come with marriage.

All of this taken together is why I support the civil union compromise.

Remember, it was Paul Martin - NOT Stephen Harper - who made this a wedge issue. Look how quickly Harper moved to the gay civil union compromise in the hopes of finding a stance on this issue acceptable to as many Canadians as possible. Good ol' Paul just kept ramming this issue down the throats of Canadians, and treating many good, productive Canadians as somehow "evil" or "scary" just because they don't agree with him on a couple of social issues.

This fervently anti-Christian/anti-American intolerance needs to end in Canada. It's dividing the country, and ruining our relations with our closest trading partner.

 

[Triple_R]

Re: RE: How can I vote conservative???

Jo, see my thread on the Tory stance on tax cuts. If the attitudes in that article are what we are going to see, then we will surely have a short-run minority government. The old "with us or against us" attitude is shining through, even though they only have 1/3 of the popular vote. It doesn't take too long for the heads to inflate, does it?

Oh, please. The GST cut was the main plank of the Conservative platform in this election campaign. They'd be guilty of a MAJOR campaign promise lie if they failed to come through on that. OF COURSE they're not going to bend on tax cuts. It's NOT about "us vs. them", it's about making good on promises that they made to Canadians.

You guys will try to spin absolutely anything into some silly anti-Conservative rant, won't you?

 

[Triple_R]

Re: RE: How can I vote conservative???

Mee too, but really what can he do in a minority anyways. Any PM in a minority is just a figurehead rather than a force for change...At least this way the govt' may...may learn a bit more on cooperation.

He can be a force for change on some issues... like scrapping the wasteful gun registry, and properly arming our border gaurds (already being talked about, according to ctv.ca), for two.

Your cartoon is funny in the context that I'd take that lady up on her bet, and say that it's really a hardcore Liberal voting Liberal in spite of all of their gross corruption and scandal.

 

[FiveParadox]

The Supreme Court ruled that it was not within the jurisdiction of Parliament to create an institution parallel to marriage for same-sex couples.

 

[Triple_R]

FiveParadox - Which still allowed government to remove the term "marriage" entirely from its vocabulary, and give BOTH heterosexual marriages, and SSM, the same term of "civil union".

Which political leader suggested a compromise like this? Not Paul Martin... but rather Stephen Harper.

That's what real statesmanship is about. It's not about picking favourites. It's not about rewarding one side of an issue to the considerable detriment of the other side of an issue. It's about finding diplomatic solutions, and compromises, that as many people as possible can live with.

 

[the caracal kid]

Trips,

look at the other thread. for a minority government to make such strong statements is against the reality that a minority voted for them, plain and simple. If you think Harper is "better" than the liberals, you too should be encouraging the Cons to try and reach compromise rather than play "hard-ball".

Let me ask you something else: how does a gay couple being married affect you? It doesn't. However, a group going out of its way to refuse marriage to a minority IS affecting others. Pretty simple, let people have their marriages if they want them, for another's marriage does not affect your marriage.

And please stop with trying to paint everything that is contrary to your beliefs as anti-this or anti-that. The only people anti anything are those trying to deny equality to others.

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: How can I vote conservative???

Trips,

look at the other thread. for a minority government to make such strong statements is against the reality that a minority voted for them, plain and simple. If you think Harper is "better" than the liberals, you too should be encouraging the Cons to try and reach compromise rather than play "hard-ball".

Let me ask you something else: how does a gay couple being married affect you? It doesn't. However, a group going out of its way to refuse marriage to a minority IS affecting others. Pretty simple, let people have their marriages if they want them, for another's marriage does not affect your marriage.

And please stop with trying to paint everything that is contrary to your beliefs as anti-this or anti-that. The only people anti anything are those trying to deny equality to others.

Even during the Liberal "majority" governments they had less than 50% of the popular vote... does that mean they were wrong to push through their agenda?

CK, I think you are inadvertently or intentionally trying to miss the point of Triple R. The only thing the Supreme Court did was affirm that equal treatment under the law must be extended to people in same sex relationships. It does not follow from that the definition of marriage has to be altered. Creating the civil union term for all couples and leaving the word "marriage" ( to which some people have a fetish attachment) out of it is a perfectly legitimate compromise.

 

[FiveParadox]

I would agree with your position, MMMike; however, I do not recall the Honourable Stephen Harper having proposed removing the term marriage from the Consolidated Statutes of Canada. Rather, I believe he proposed a parallel institution — which the Supreme Court of Canada declared to be ultra vires the Parliament of Canada.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: How can I vote conservative???

It's about finding diplomatic solutions, and compromises, that as many people as possible can live with.

But that isn't what the Liberals did becuse they don't want compromise and diplomatic solutions to this issue. There aren't enough votes in it. The issue has to made into a battle and one where the conservatives can to be painted as homophobes...thats where the real votes come from.

Other countries, including the UK have found compromise on the issue.

 

[the caracal kid]

"Even during the Liberal "majority" governments they had less than 50% of the popular vote... does that mean they were wrong to push through their agenda?"

yes, it does. unfortunately, the system is at fault for the way governance works.

as for "marriage", i don't agree. i see it as the term is mainstream and the term people use to describe such bindings, so it should be the term used by all. It is one of those things that is a private matter, so it should not matter who else is using it, since others using it does not affect one's own use of it. If you think this is in error show me how a gay couple using the term "marriage" affects a hetro couple in any way.