A new Canada: would you endorse it?

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
Given the current political system is a failure,
and there is a need for the formation of an open, equal democratic federal government that is both more responsive to the people and to the provinces, would you endorse a new party whose platform consisted of a new constitution, charter of rights, redefinition of the powers of the feds and provinces, a directly elected PM/president, council of the provinces, senate of the provinces, and house of canada?

A constitution and bill of rights that enshrines not just protection of the peoples, but of the land, air and sea?

Would you want to be involved in the creation of these new charters, and the party that carried them? (a party of social democrats that uphold the need for fiscal repsonsibility. A party that believes the social programs should provide sooner, for a shorter time period, when it is easier to correct problems)
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
I think we can do this within the current framework. We could even ditch the Charter and we would be just fine.
 

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
2,233
30
48
42
Montreal
I'm certainly interested in a real reform of Canada. I just proposed a scenario in the "PQ-BQ merge scenario" thread in which a move by Quebec would trigger all sorts of change within Canada. Although it probaly won't happen that way, at least I know Quebec will eventually force Canada to change whether it seperates or not.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
If canada doen't start acting un-canadian (i.e. actually start addressing issues and working for progress) it will come down to the actions of quebec to kick canada into changing.

I would like to develop the new system beforehand. The party issue is about "working within the system" but i too would be open to change entirely from without the system (create the new system of governance and its charters and go directly to the people.)
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
I just simply do not trust anyone to rewrite the framework.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
Motherhood statements are nice and dandy until it's quickly discovered the devil is in the details.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
Re: RE: A new Canada: would you endorse it?

Jay said:
I just simply do not trust anyone to rewrite the framework.

Like Trudeau's Repatriation :roll: Charlottetown :roll: Meech Lake : :roll:

I'm with you. As an Albertan I don't trust Central Canada to act in my interests. 25 years after Trudeau 'acting in Canada's interest' the election results in alberta will be:

Cons: 28
Libs: 0
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Charlottetown and Meech lake were Conservative policies.

So you want Canada to break apart because right now, with any government in charge, especially a Harper government, but equally a Layton or Martin government it is not going to last.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
Jay and Calberty,

So the system is falling apart. Calberty is upset about "central canada", Jay doesn't trust anybody to create a workable framework.

What if YOU were involved in the process?

It is strange to say, "i will opt for the status quo even though it is a failure". That is of course assuming one wants there to be a canada for much longer.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
I love Canada, but i don't think that whatever you do, anyway you go that Canada will be able to survive.

Look on the bright side, it has lived some 140 years, but maybe people are just unconcerned with what will happen to Canada in the future caracel kid.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
I'm optimistic that political associations based on 'nationalism' and eventually even 'geography' will be viewed as archaic in the near to mid future as we view those once based on religious affiliation or royal family alliances.

'Canada' is an artificial construct that hasn't always existed and will not always exist. Canada (and other states) are going to become less relevent in future. International movement of trade, people, the Internet, Pan culture, the pervasiveness of English language, etc. will be stronger than national forces.

I'm not critical of people who do but I personally could never 'love' my country. I love my family. I 'like' to live in a particular social structure but can't say I 'love' the superstructure that allows it. I also like my fierld of science, I like my internet community, etc. Structures above the family or near-community level, however, are going to be in flux in the next decade and 'Canada' might survive but 'the state' is going to be a very different concept than that of 1967 or 2006. A couple generations from now young people will find it amusing that people used to wave flags and sing national anthems.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
they still do?

i can relate Calberty. I don't love canada, i don't sing anthems, i don't wave flags.

Change is coming, that is why we need to act for it rather than be a victim of it. I admit my personal view of the future will not occur in my lifetime, but i would like to see progress towards a new society.

My other option is leaving NA for good. Something i continuously evaluate. Aside from properties, I already have cut all ties to canada proper.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: A new Canada: would you endorse it?

the caracal kid said:
Jay and Calberty,

So the system is falling apart. Calberty is upset about "central canada", Jay doesn't trust anybody to create a workable framework.

What if YOU were involved in the process?

It is strange to say, "i will opt for the status quo even though it is a failure". That is of course assuming one wants there to be a canada for much longer.


I don't agree with you that Canada is a failure. If it were a failed state I would rather have Canada join America to create a larger country. At least we know their constitution works. But I don't think it is necessary for a second.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
Re: RE: A new Canada: would you endorse it?

the caracal kid said:
they still do?

Change is coming, that is why we need to act for it rather than be a victim of it.

That's a great point. The 'place' we call Canada won't disappear but there is also so much else out there in the world. My major question about Quebec independence has never been the specific pros or cons but rather why limit one's options in life by becoming a member of a smaller society than a larger one. I'm not from Alberta originally but liked the option of moving out here when I did....or the potential option of moving elsewhere in Canada as circumstance might arise. I'd also like the option to move 'wherever' without the blinkers of national borders.
 

S-Ranger

Nominee Member
Mar 12, 2005
96
0
6
South Ontario, Toronto District
Re: RE: A new Canada: would you endorse it?

Calberty said:
Jay said:
I just simply do not trust anyone to rewrite the framework.

Like Trudeau's Repatriation :roll: Charlottetown :roll: Meech Lake : :roll:

I'm with you. As an Albertan I don't trust Central Canada to act in my interests. 25 years after Trudeau 'acting in Canada's interest' the election results in alberta will be:

Cons: 28
Libs: 0

There is no such thing as "Central Canada" in reality and Trudeau is dead and was not "Central Canada" either; it was a politician and name the election and I'll show you every Liberal vote in the Albertas at the time.

All of the talk of some alleged singularity of "Quebec" separating (or the like, kicking the Canadas, plural, there is no such thing as "Canada" as any singularity either; there is no such thing as "an Albertan" either; wake up; and any "real Albertan," if there were such a thing, would most certainly not have missed the propaganda about the NEP around Trudeau ;)) but this alleged singularity of "Quebec" is half (slightly over in mostly deserted land mass) of the alleged "Central Canada thing" with some alleged singularity of "Ontario" as the other half -- when neither exist -- in reality. And if the alleged singularity of "Quebec" is separating then how could there be some "Central Canada?" of some singular "Ontario AND Quebec?" Ontario must be "separating" too.

And it's:

Cons: 28
Pros: 0

These exist in semi-reality:

Provinces and Territories Population Totals and Census Metropolitan Areas and Census Agglomerations: 2001 Census, 1996 Census, %Change and National Rank
(ranks by population total from source)


Introduction

Statistics Canada, and others, use terms to refer to what we normally refer to by their political names (counties, cities, towns, townships, villages, reserves, etc.) and many other terms that mean the same but have different names due to federal and provincial/territorial statutes.

For example, Ontario has County jurisdictions but also United Counties, Regional Municipalities and Divisions and similar is the case in other jurisdictions. What the real (legal) differences are, lay in looking up the terms to find out, or emailing "your" wonderful MPP/MNA/MLA to see if it has a clue. :lol: But you'll probably have much better luck with Google, if you know how to use it (a masters degree in nuclear temporal paradigmical compensational dimensions is required to use Google properly; or you could always click on "About Google" then read the online help to get the basics down; or more).

The Canadas are is also bilingual with Québécois-French (this is English in case you were wondering what the other language is), so city may be cité or ville (Ville de Montréal doesn't mean village) any number of other names; not just due to Québécois-French but due to provincial statutes that allow whatever they allow "counties" to be called, to be called something else and to have pseudo-governments to come up with even more names for things.

These political jurisdictions are not always useful (to say the least) in the Canadas, so for statistical purposes, Statistics Canada uses the legal names and political lines/boundaries anyway for no apparent reason, while slapping other labels on top of them to confuse you even more. After all, isn't that what our taxes that pay for "good" government agencies exist for?

The following terms are used in this paper (it's actually electronic; no paper was involved) ... so I thought it might be an idea to point out what the labels you'll see below claim to mean, even though it's not true in many cases.

This is where it starts and where it all goes wrong:

CSDs are the building blocks of CMAs and CAs and every other "statistical label"
___________________________________________________________
Census Subdivision (CSD)

Area that is a municipality or [get this] an area that is deemed to be equivalent to a municipality for statistical reporting purposes (e.g., as an Indian reserve or an unorganized territory [or far too many municipalities to bother with in South Ontario, so just lump dozens of them together into one CSD and give them crappy stats while using real municipalities with 1,000 or fewer people in them in the hinterlands to give them amazing stats -- without one important stat: "How many people in this CSD have Internet access or a clue what Internet access even is, let alone would go to Statistics Canada to find out what it already knows, because they all know each other's NAMES :?::!:]).

Municipal status is defined by laws in effect in each province and territory in Canada. [Politics around geographic/demographic "statistics," and the starting point, the most basic building blocks of everything? There are 147 types of CSDs and you can read all about them, or at least have a glance for a laugh, here. And probably in the "Detailed Description" link below too. They have entire web sites devoted to explaining it all and duplicate it with dozens of entire web sites instead of, like creating one link "What's all this Census Division (CD-County), Census Municipality (CSD, um, a city-region so why not just call it that), Census Agglomeration (CA, which is where it falls apart; good luck trying to explain those things), Census Subdisivision (CSD -- municipalities or not, make up your minds?) crap?" that links to one description ... but that would save us taxes, so take your pick of their dictionaries/definitions from some of the links below; this one is the best that I've found, as in gives you the basics and you can get a sort of "multimedia" tutorial or more detailed description and see if you then believe any of that.]

Tutorial | Detailed Description

___________________________________________________________
Census Metropolitan Area (CMA and MA, equivalent to city-region)

Area consisting of one or more adjacent municipalities situated around a major urban core. To form a census metropolitan area, the urban core must have a population of at least 100,000. To form a census agglomeration, the urban core must have a population of at least 10,000.

Tutorial | Detailed Description

__________________________________________________________
Census Agglomeration (CA)

See above for CAs. When a CA reaches 50,000 in population, census tracts are added. Don't flip on me, I don't do it and if you don't care what they are then good for you. I don't particularly care either, but had to research it all to get a clue.

___________________________________________________________
Census Tract (CT)

Area that is small and relatively stable. Census tracts usually have a population of 2,500 to 8,000. They are located in urban centers [Ed: spelling correction; it stated "centres" like some French thing, centrés; why not? It's center, not centre] that must have an urban core population of 50,000 or more.

Tutorial | Detailed Description
___________________________________________________________

Source: Statistics Canada - Illustrated Glossary of Geographic Units

NOTE:

CMAs and CAs that cross provincial borders have only the populations that reside in the "current" (heading) "province" listed, but both provinces are listed to show that it crosses a "provincial" line. For example, the Ottawa-Hull CMA has its Ontario population listed in the Ontario section and (ON/QC) follows the CMA name. In the Québec section, only the portion of the CMA that resides in Québec is listed and (QC/ON) follows the CMA name. There are no totals (in these tables) for such CMAs/CAs, because everything is divided up by province/territory, so totals across provincial lines are irrelevant.


Ontario (ON)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                        2001       1996  %Change  Rank
Province               11,410,046 10,753,573   6.1      1
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: 656,473.  There's nothing fancy
about "actual"; it's just the 1996 population subtracted
from the 2001 population supplementing the vague %Change.

__________________________________________________________
CMA (11 Total)              2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Toronto* .............. 4,682,897  4,263,759   9.8      1
Ottawa-Hull (ON/QC)* ..   806,096    751,646   7.2      4
Hamilton* .............   662,401    624,360   6.1      9
London* ...............   432,451    416,546   3.8     10
Kitchener* ............   414,284    382,940   8.2     11
St. Catharines-Niagara*   377,009    372,406   1.2     12 
Windsor* ..............   307,877    286,811   7.3     15
Oshawa* ...............   296,298    268,773  10.2     16
Greater Sudbury* ......   155,601    165,618  –6.0     20
Kingston* .............   146,838    144,528   1.6     24
Thunder Bay ...........   121,986    126,643  –3.7     27
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs              8,403,738  7,804,030   7.7
__________________________________________________________
3,006,308 live outside the CMAs above
73.7% live in the CMAs above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (30 Total)               2001       1996  %Change Rank
__________________________________________________________
Barrie ................   148,480    118,695  25.1     23
Guelph ................   117,344    105,997  10.7     31
Chatham-Kent ..........   107,709    109,650  -1.8     33
Peterborough ..........   102,423    100,285   2.1     34
Sarnia ................    88,331     90,697  -2.6     35
Belleville ............    87,395     87,871  -0.5     36
Brantford .............    86,417     84,764   2.0     38
Sault Ste. Marie ......    78,908     83,619  -5.6     43
Kawartha Lakes ........    69,179     67,926   1.8     45
North Bay .............    63,681     64,785  -1.7     49
Norfolk ...............    60,847     60,534   0.5     51
Cornwall ..............    57,581     58,987  -2.4     54
Leamington ............    46,757     43,798   6.8     60
Brockville ............    44,741     45,170  -0.9     61
Timmins ...............    43,686     47,499  -8.0     63
Orillia ...............    40,256     38,103   5.7     70
Midland ...............    33,692     33,291   1.2     78
Woodstock .............    33,061     32,253   2.5     80
Owen Sound ............    31,583     31,646  -0.2     82
Stratford .............    29,676     29,007   2.3     84
Pembroke (ON/QC) ......    22,223     23,155  -4.0     98
Cobourg ...............    17,172     16,185   6.1    112
Collingwood ...........    16,039     15,596   2.8    118
Kenora ................    15,838     16,365  -3.2    120
Port Hope and Hope ....    15,605     15,446   1.0    121
Petawawa ..............    14,398     15,304  -5.9    126
Tillsonburg ...........    14,052     13,211   6.4    127
Haileybury ............    12,867     13,712  -6.2    129
Elliot Lake ...........    11,956     13,588 -12.0    133
Hawkesbury (ON/QC) ....    10,314     10,162   1.5    134
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CAs               1,522,211  1,487,301   2.3
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs and CAs      9,925,949  9,291,331   6.8
__________________________________________________________
1,484,097 live outside the CMAs+CAs above
87.0% of the population live in the CMAs+CAs above


Québec (QC)
Code:
_________________________________________________________
Type                        2001       1996  %Change Rank
Province                7,237,479  7,138,795   1.4      2
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: 98,684

__________________________________________________________
CMA (6 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Montréal* ............. 3,426,350  3,326,447   3.0      2
Québec City*...........   682,757    671,889   1.6      7
Ottawa-Hull (QC/ON)* ..   257,568    247,072   4.2      4
Chicoutimi-Jonquière ..   154,938    160,454  –3.4     21
Sherbrooke* ...........   153,811    149,569   2.8     22
Trois-Rivières* .......   137,507    139,956  –1.7     25
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs              4,812,931  4,695,387   2.5
__________________________________________________________
2,424,548 live outside the CMAs above
66.5% live in the CMAs above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (28 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Saint-Jean-sur-
Richelieu .............    79,600     76,461   4.1     42
Drummondville .........    68,451     65,119   5.1     46
Granby ................    60,264     58,872   2.4     52
Shawinigan ............    57,304     59,851  -4.3     55
Saint-Hyacinthe .......    49,536     50,027  -1.0     57
Rimouski ..............    47,688     48,104  -0.9     58
Victoriaville .........    41,233     40,438   2.0     67
Sorel-Tracy ...........    40,956     43,010  -4.8     69
Salaberry-de-
Valleyfield ...........    39,028     39,563  -1.4     71
Rouyn-Noranda .........    36,308     39,096  -7.1     75
Joliette ..............    35,821     34,391   4.2     76
Val-d'Or ..............    32,423     33,756  -3.9     81
Alma ..................    30,126     30,377  -0.8     83
Baie-Comeau ...........    28,940     31,795  -9.0     85
Saint-Georges .........    28,127     26,584   5.8     86
Sept-Îles .............    26,952     28,005  -3.8     88
Thetford Mines ........    26,323     27,760  -5.2     89
Magog .................    22,535     21,334   5.6     99
Rivière-du-Loup .......    22,339     22,378  -0.2    100
Amos ..................    21,749     22,402  -2.9    102
Matane ................    16,249     17,118  -5.1    116
Dolbeau-Mistassini ....    14,879     15,214  -2.2    123
La Tuque ..............    12,376     13,165  -6.0    130
Cowansville ...........    12,032     12,051  -0.2    132
Lachute ...............    11,628     11,556   0.6    135
Campbellton (QC/NB) ...     2,955      2,903   1.8    115
Pembroke (QC/ON) ......     1,385      1,482  -6.5     98
Hawkesbury (QC/ON) ....     1,315      1,443  -8.9    134
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CAs                 868,522    874,255  -0.7
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs and CAs      5,681,453  5,569,642   2.0
__________________________________________________________
1,556,026 live outside the CMAs+CAs above
78.5% live in the CMAs+CAs above

* «Main Street» : Windsor-Québec City Corridor a.k.a. "Inner Canada" (ask David Kilgour) 14 of the 27 CMAs in the Canadas (identified by/in the 2001 Census of the Canadas).


British Columbia (BC)
Code:
__________________________________________________________

Type                        2001       1996  %Change  Rank
Province                3,907,738  3,724,500   4.9      3
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: 183,238

__________________________________________________________
CMA (3 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Vancouver ............. 1,986,965  1,831,665   8.5      3
Victoria ..............   311,902    304,287   2.5     14
Abbotsford ............   147,370    136,480   8.0     23
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs              2,446,237  2,272,432   7.6
__________________________________________________________
1,461,501 live outside the CMAs above
62.6% of the total population in CMAs above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (22 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Kelowna ...............   147,739    136,541   8.2     24
Kamloops ..............    86,491     85,407   1.3     37
Nanaimo ...............    85,664     82,691   3.6     39
Prince George .........    85,035     87,731  -3.1     40
Chilliwack ............    69,776     66,254   5.3     44
Vernon ................    51,530     49,701   3.7     56
Courtenay .............    47,051     46,297   1.6     59
Penticton .............    41,574     41,276   0.7     65
Duncan ................    38,813     38,464   0.9     72
Campbell River ........    33,872     33,849   0.1     77
Port Alberni ..........    25,396     26,893  -5.6     91
Williams Lake .........    25,122     24,992   0.5     93
Quesnel ...............    24,426     25,074  -2.6     94
Parksville ............    24,285     22,629   7.3     95
Cranbrook .............    24,275     24,151   0.5     96
Terrace ...............    19,980     20,941  -4.6    106
Powell River ..........    18,269     18,402  -0.7    108
Dawson Creek ..........    17,444     18,039  -3.3    111
Fort St. John .........    16,034     15,021   6.7    119
Prince Rupert .........    15,302     17,414 -12.1    122
Squamish ..............    14,435     14,236   1.4    125
Kitimat ...............    10,285     11,136  -7.6    139
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CAs                 922,798    907,139   1.7
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs and CAs      3,369,035  3,179,571   6.0
__________________________________________________________
538,703 live outside the CMAs+CAs above
86.2% live in the CMAs+CAs above


Alberta (AB)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                        2001       1996  %Change  Rank
Province                2,974,807  2,696,826  10.3      4
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: 277,981

__________________________________________________________
CMA (2 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Calgary ...............   951,395    821,628  15.8      5
Edmonton ..............   937,845    862,597   8.7      6
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs              1,889,240  1,684,225  12.2
__________________________________________________________
1,085,567 live outside the CMAs above
63.5% live in the CMAs above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (10 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Red Deer ..............    67,707     60,080  12.7     47
Lethbridge ............    67,374     63,053   6.9     48
Medicine Hat ..........    61,735     56,570   9.1     50
Wood Buffalo ..........    42,602     36,124  17.9     64
Grande Prairie ........    36,983     31,353  18.0     73
Cold Lake .............    27,935     27,139   2.9     87
Camrose ...............    14,854     13,728   8.2    124
Lloydminster (AB/SK) ..    13,148     11,317  16.2    104
Brooks ................    11,604     10,093  15.0    136
Wetaskiwin ............    11,154     10,959   1.8    138
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CAs                 355,096    320,416  10.8
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs and CAs      2,244,336  2,004,641  12.0
__________________________________________________________
730,471 live outside the CMAs+CAs above
75.4% live in the CMAs+CAs above


Manitoba (MB)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                        2001       1996  %Change  Rank
Province                1,119,583  1,113,898   0.5      5
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: 5,685

__________________________________________________________
CMA (1 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Winnipeg ..............   671,274    667,093   0.6      8
__________________________________________________________
448,309 live outside the CMA above
60.0% live in the CMA above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (3 Total)                2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Brandon ...............    41,037     40,581   1.1     68
Portage la Prairie ....    20,617     20,385   1.1    105
Thompson ..............    13,256     14,385  -7.8    128
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CAs                  74,910     75,351  -0.6
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMA and CAs         746,184    742,444   0.5
__________________________________________________________
373,399 live outside the CMAs+CAs above
66.6% live in the CMAs+CAs above


Saskatchewan (SK)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                        2001       1996  %Change  Rank
Province                  978,933    990,237  -1.1      6
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: -11,304

__________________________________________________________
CMA (2 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Saskatoon .............   225,927    219,056   3.1     17
Regina ................   192,800    193,652  –0.4     18
__________________________________________________________
CMA TOTAL                 418,727    412,708   1.5
__________________________________________________________
560,206 live outside the CMAs above
42.8% live in the CMAs above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (7 Total)                2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Prince Albert .........    41,460     41,706  -0.6     66
Moose Jaw .............    33,519     34,829  -3.8     79
Yorkton ...............    17,554     17,713  -0.9    109
North Battleford ......    17,512     17,987  -2.6    110
Swift Current .........    16,527     16,437   0.5    114
Estevan ...............    12,083     12,656  -4.5    131
Lloydminster (SK/AB) ..     7,840      7,636   2.7    104
__________________________________________________________
CA TOTAL                  146,495    148,964  -1.9
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMAs and CAs        565,222    561,672   0.6
__________________________________________________________
421,551 live outside the CMAs+CAs above
56.9% live in the CMAs+CAs above


Nova Scotia (NS)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                        2001       1996  %Change  Rank
Province                  908,007    909,282  -0.1      7
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: -1,275

__________________________________________________________
CMA (1 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Halifax ...............   359,183    342,966   4.7     13
__________________________________________________________
548,824 live outside the CMA above
39.6% live in the CMA above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (4 Total)                2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Cape Breton ...........   109,330    117,849  -7.2     32
Truro .................    44,276     44,102   0.4     62
New Glasgow ...........    36,735     38,055  -3.5     74
Kentville .............    25,172     25,090   0.3     92
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CAs                 215,513    225,096  -4.3
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMA and CAs         574,696    568,062   1.2
__________________________________________________________
333,311 live outside the CMA+CAs above
63.3% live in the CMAs and CAs above


New Brunswick (NB)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                        2001       1996  %Change  Rank
Province                  729,498    738,133  -1.2      8
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: -8,635

__________________________________________________________
CMA (1 Total)               2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Saint John ............   122,678    125,705  –2.4     26
__________________________________________________________
606,820 live outside the CMA above
16.8% live in the CMA above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (5 Total)                2001       1996  %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Moncton ...............   117,727    113,495   3.7     30
Fredericton ...........    81,346     78,950   3.0     41
Bathurst ..............    23,935     25,415  -5.8     97
Edmundston ............    22,173     22,624  -2.0    101
Campbellton (NB/QC) ...    13,310     13,964  -4.7    115
__________________________________________________________
CA TOTAL                  258,491    254,448   1.6
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMA and CAs         381,169    380,153   0.3
__________________________________________________________
348,329 live outside the CMA+CAs above
52.3% live in the CMAs+CAs above

Newfoundland and Labrador (NL)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                        2001       1996  %Change  Rank
Province                  512,930    551,792  -7.0      9
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: -38,862

__________________________________________________________
CMA (1 Total)              2001       1996   %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
St. John's ............   172,918    174,051  –0.7     19
__________________________________________________________
340,012 live outside the CMA above
33.7% live in the CMA above

Code:
__________________________________________________________
CA (4 Total)               2001       1996   %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Corner Brook ..........   25,747     27,945   -7.9     90
Grand Falls-Windsor ...   18,981     20,378   -6.9    107
Gander ................   11,254     12,021   -6.4    137
Labrador City .........    9,638     10,473   -8.0    140
__________________________________________________________
CA TOTAL                  65,620     70,817   -7.3
__________________________________________________________
TOTAL CMA and CAs        238,538    244,868   -2.6
__________________________________________________________
274,392 live outside the CMA+CAs above
46.5% live in the CMAs+CAs above


Prince Edward Island (PE)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                       2001       1996   %Change  Rank
Province                 135,294    134,557    0.5     10
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: 737

No CMA

__________________________________________________________
CA (2 Total)               2001       1996   %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Charlottetown .........   58,358     57,224    2.0     53
Summerside ............   16,200     16,001    1.2    117
__________________________________________________________
CA TOTAL                  74,558     73,225    1.8
__________________________________________________________
60,736 live outside the CAs above
55.1% live in the CAs above

Northwest Territories (NT)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                       2001       1996   %Change  Rank
Territory                 37,360     39,672   -5.8     11
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: -2,312

No CMA

__________________________________________________________
CA (1 Total)               2001       1996   %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Yellowknife ...........   16,541     17,275   -4.2    113
__________________________________________________________
20,819 live outside the CA above
44.3% live in the CA above


Yukon Territory (YT)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                       2001       1996   %Change  Rank
Territory                 28,674     30,766   -6.8     12
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: -2,092

No CMA

__________________________________________________________
CA                         2001       1996   %Change  Rank
__________________________________________________________
Whitehorse ............   21,405     21,808   -1.8    103
__________________________________________________________
7,269 live outside the CA above
74.6% live in the CA above


Nunavat Territory (NU)
Code:
__________________________________________________________
Type                       2001       1996   %Change  Rank
Territory                 26,745     24,730    8.1     13
__________________________________________________________
Actual population growth: 2,015

No CMA
No CA

Population in CMAs and CAs summary.
Code:
________________________________________________________________
CMA SUMMARY                 2001       1996    Pop Growth  %Pop
________________________________________________________________
(ON+QC)    CMA Total    13,216,669  12,499,417    717,252  44.05
(ON+QC+BC) CMA Total    15,662,906  14,771,849    891,057  52.20

(AB+SK+MB) CMA Total     2,979,241   2,764,026    215,215   9.93
Atlantic   CMA Total       654,779     642,722     12,057   2.18
Territory  CMA Total          -           -          -       -
________________________________________________________________
Canada     CMA Total    19,656,109  18,521,563  1,134,546  65.50

________________________________________________________________
CA SUMMARY                  2001       1996    Pop Growth  %Pop
________________________________________________________________
(ON+QC)    CA Total      2,390,733   2,361,556     29,177   7.97
(ON+QC+BC) CA Total      3,313,531   3,268,695     44,836  11.04

(AB+SK+MB) CA Total        568,661     537,095     31,566   1.90
Atlantic   CA Total        614,182     623,586     -9,404   2.05
Territory  CA Total         37,946      39,083     -1,137   0.13
________________________________________________________________
Canada     CA Total      4,534,320   4,468,459     65,861  15.11

________________________________________________________________
CMA+CA SUMMARY              2001       1996    Pop Growth  %Pop
________________________________________________________________
(ON+QC)    CMA+CA Total 15,662,906  14,771,849    891,057  52.01
(ON+QC+BC) CMA+CA Total 18,976,437  18,040,544    935,893  63.24

(AB+SK+MB) CMA+CA Total  3,547,902   3,301,121    246,781  11.82
Atlantic   CMA+CA Total  1,268,961   1,266,308      2,653   4.23
Territory  CMA+CA Total  No CMA, same as CA Total above
________________________________________________________________
Canada     CMA+CA Total 24,190,429  22,990,022  1,200,407  80.62

________________________________________________________________
CANADA, CMA AND CA SUMMARY  2001       1996    Pop Growth  %Pop
________________________________________________________________
Canada Total Population 30,007,094  28,846,761  1,160,333 100.00
Less CMA Total          10,350,985  10,325,198     25,787  34.50
Less CMA+CA Total        5,816,665   5,856,739    -40,074  19.38
________________________________________________________________
%Pop is the 2001 population as a percentage of the total ("Canada") 2001 population. As in 45.05% of the population of the Canadas are in CMAs of the Windsor-Québec City corridor; I mean "Ontario" and "Quebec" (ON+QC):

Windsor-Québec City Corridor, 2001

Ontario Section
10,706,513 93% of Ontario's population

Québec Section
6,327,354 87% of Quebec's population

Total Population
17,033,867 57% of Canada's population

Source: Statistics Canada 2001 Census

And other than around business, mainly transportation/communications, there is no singular "Windsor-Québec City corridor" either; on the "Ontario" or the "Québec" side (which is mainly the Montréals), let alone as some singular "South Ontario-Southwest Quebec bliss of harmony, unity and love-fests," so deep that even political pond scum notices. There are nothing but political wars/disasters in the "GTA thing" and Toronto City Hall is a zoo; mainly due to the continued delusion that some singular "Ontario thing" exists, which has the far less than worthless "Ontario" feds trying to dictate everything, while they steal our MUNICIPAL taxes because they can't even pay their bills to dictate to us; so time's are definitely changing and South Ontario can't just mouth off like the rest of you can, publicly in your big "mass media" or the entire world would notice and it'd screw up investment and plenty more.

When South Ontario is ready to truly "bitch" you'll know about it, because it'll last for about a week, if there's any need to bitch (if something goes wrong with the mass marketing; though that would be unfortunate -- for "y'all") and then the new union constitution and economic charters (ya, plural) will be installed and it'll be over without much of a blip on the TSX. And I don't know of anyone here or in the U.S. or anywhere else who has inquired about getting advice from prairie or any other hicks (it's what "provincial" means; or unsophisticated simpleton bumpkinly rustic rural bucolic yokel rube yahoo hayseed chawbacon hicks), who know nothing about real economics, nothing about real R&D, global competition, nothing about much of anything, prove it, have been for decades, and mistake the necessary social inclusion ("tolerance") and many other investments around knowledge-based economies for "liberalism" because they're clueless; and it comes right out of the "Alberta" Ministry of Finance and makes for quite humorous reading, let alone its "newz media" (media, plural, not medium).

52.2% of the total population of all CMAs in the Canadas are in the Windsor-Québec City corridor - Lower Mainland-south Vancouver Island (ON+QC+BC), until the "CANADA" summary (last table above), which also the total population of the Canadas (the population percentages, "percent of total population of the Canadas" based on the 2001 Census total as in the other tables; not the 1996 Census).

"Less" means the total population of the Canadas minus the populations of all CMAs combined then minus the populations of all CMAs and CAs combined leaving only 5.8 million people (and there are square kilometers for every CMA and CA and for the Canadas but it's not above to show even more clearly... go to it); not much out there. It's where "80% of Canadians live in cities" comes from (80.62% actually, just subtract the 19.38 above who don't even live in pathetic "census agglomerations" from 100 -- as in 100% to reverse a percentage), and the rest is losing population; 40,074 just from the 1996 Census to the 2001 Census. Not a lot (0.68%) but it's not growth and is quite a long-term trend.

Legend:
ON = Ontario
QC = Québec
BC = British Columbia
AB = Alberta
MB = Manitoba
SK = Saskatchewan

Atlantic = Nova Scotia + New Brunswick + Prince Edward Island + Newfoundland & Labrador
Territory = Yukon Territory + Northwest Territories + Nunuvat Territory

Derived from: Statistics Canada - Tables - Population and Dwelling Counts

See also:
Statistics Canada - Illustrated Glossary of Geographic Units - Census Division (CD), Census Municipal Area (CMA/MA), Census Agglomeration (CA), Census Subdivision (CSD - "municipality") and more (index).

Statistics Canada - 2001 Census Dictionary, Internet version

Statistics Canada - Census metropolitan areas and census agglomerations with census tracts for the 2001 Census ... census units, another version of the above but with...

Statistics Canada - PDF: The paper/details of the above

Statistics Canada - CMA listings/maps. PDFs for every CMA/CA in the Canadas from this HTML (any PDF links, I clearly mark) link but read the first link; try one and see if it's worth your time. It wasn't worth mine.

StatsCON has to produce the most worthless maps around and unfortunately, other online and offline maps don't get into CMAs and CAs and other "geographic units" that StatsCON uses, so we're stuck with GeoStats and whatever other crappy maps around StatsCON -- unless you know differently and if so, please share. Who the hell knows where most of the CA things are and they have to be mapped out to see, other than the big ones "we" in various regions do know about, where the hell they are if their populations mean anything and then what the hell they do, what their industries are, what their GDP is, unemployment rate, net debt/surplus, not just "average household income" and other worthless demographic stats, like how many widows there are, male and female.
 

ScreaminDemon

New Member
Jan 12, 2006
5
0
1
"My other option is leaving NA for good. Something i continuously evaluate. Aside from properties, I already have cut all ties to canada proper. "


Please stop "evaluating" and leave. If my Grandfather had "evaluated" whether or not he really wanted to go to France, Holland and Germany in 1944, he would have chosen not to. However, he and many, many others did go, with pride, with fellow CANADIANS. They fought alongside our allies but were distinctly proud of their origin. Had they not, I am doubtfull that the fascist society that may have been would be especially sympathetic to your psuedo-intellectual bitching.

Move already......Please
 

JomZ

Electoral Member
Aug 18, 2005
273
0
16
Reentering the Fray at CC.net
It is discouraging too hear so many naysayers talk of Canada’s demise in such validity. It seems like tomorrow I will wake up and be another citizen for another country.

I for one am a believer in the idea that is Canada, where all are equal and excepted. Even though reality is not so true, I hope for the constant progression towards that goal.

A “Just Society” as Trudeau once called it. I like what you say Caracal, I think Canada can be made a more open and just society in all aspects from government, to business, to social context.

Maybe I am a young and naïve, but I still believe there is a future for Canada. It maybe only in the land of dreams.