A fresh look at health care

KanBob

Nominee Member
Jan 11, 2006
71
0
6
Alberta
We complain, of course, about the many frustrations of the Canadian Health Care system.

On the other hand, we look at the American system and turn our noses. But what does it look like when Americans take a look at our health care system?

Have a look at this American video:

http://homepage.mac.com/erikabrowning/deadmeat-hq.wmv

One note: When the first guy starts complaining about how the health care system sucks, remember this is an AMERICAN talking about HIS system!

Watch and enjoy!
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
I watched it, aside from all the blah blah, I just have one question. Canadians aren't permitted (against the law) to get private health care? I find that hard to believe.
 

Breakthrough2006

Electoral Member
Dec 2, 2005
172
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I watched it, aside from all the blah blah, I just have one question. Canadians aren't permitted (against the law) to get private health care? I find that hard to believe.

It's called communism. No choice but to use the states services. Now they want to institutionalize our children so that they can control their minds from the cradle to the grave. Stalin would be proud.
 

KanBob

Nominee Member
Jan 11, 2006
71
0
6
Alberta
I think not said:
I watched it, aside from all the blah blah, I just have one question. Canadians aren't permitted (against the law) to get private health care? I find that hard to believe.

You've got it. It is illegal for Canadians to pay for, or buy insurance for, any publicy insured service.

That was the issue the Supreme Court dealt with in the Chaoulli case, ruling, in Quebec anyway, that the government cannot disallow private insurance when people are dying on waiting lists.

There is a bit of a sneaky exception to this. The Canada Health Act allows third-party intervention. It is this clause that allows Workmen's Compensation to pay for treatments generally at a higher price than the public system pays. That's why if you hurt your knee on the job and need a knee replacement it will probably take just a few weeks to get it done, while if the same problem is not work related, you may wait a couple of years.

Workmen's Comp are the private insurance you never really hear about, but it is why they can people serviced so much faster than the public system (even though they use the public system). They pay extra.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Well that is just nonsense. If someone wants to get additional insurance they should have the right to do so. If you permit private health care the state may actually get off its ass and make the services better.

Anyway, the video reminded me a bit of a propaganda tape. They had nothing good to say and they made it sound as if people are dying on the streets. They also had nothing to say about the American system other than 40 million uninsured. Agreed, I have never heard of waiting lists in the US, but then again I have heard of people not having insurance.

It was obviously made by a Republican since they spotted Clinton and Kennedy, nevertheless, both systems have flaws and need a good hard look.

Breakthrough you cracked me up calling it communism. :lol:
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
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www.kdm.ca
actually, while "by the books" you are supposedly prohibited from private care for publicly provided services there are loopholes that allow one to have whatever services they want.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
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Location, Location
KanBob said:
I think not said:
I watched it, aside from all the blah blah, I just have one question. Canadians aren't permitted (against the law) to get private health care? I find that hard to believe.

You've got it. It is illegal for Canadians to pay for, or buy insurance for, any publicy insured service.

That was the issue the Supreme Court dealt with in the Chaoulli case, ruling, in Quebec anyway, that the government cannot disallow private insurance when people are dying on waiting lists.

There is a bit of a sneaky exception to this. The Canada Health Act allows third-party intervention. It is this clause that allows Workmen's Compensation to pay for treatments generally at a higher price than the public system pays. That's why if you hurt your knee on the job and need a knee replacement it will probably take just a few weeks to get it done, while if the same problem is not work related, you may wait a couple of years.

Workmen's Comp are the private insurance you never really hear about, but it is why they can people serviced so much faster than the public system (even though they use the public system). They pay extra.

I haven't seen any indication that WCB cases get handled any faster in NB; in fact, the docs typically HATE the paperwork they have to submit to WCB.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
If people want private health care, they just have to go to the US.

I'm looking at surgery here in the next month or so and hoping I can put it off until the insurance from my new job kicks in. Otherwise, it's gonna cost me upwards of $3500... not a thrilling prospect.
 

KanBob

Nominee Member
Jan 11, 2006
71
0
6
Alberta
Re: RE: A fresh look at health care

tracy said:
If people want private health care, they just have to go to the US.

That's just dumb though. Why not keep that business, and the jobs in Canada? Not to mention avoiding the travel and all the extra expenses.

It seems a sham to pretend we don't have or want access to private health when the outlet is the US. Or apparently India now!
 

sanch

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2005
647
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http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=b4744248-4141-440f-a9ee-e7958c0572a2&k=18029

How does one explain this? I imaginge that this was in the works before the conservative surge in the polls and so would have happened whatever party was in power. There's another page that I did not post.

Company plans private health care for Ont. this summer
Across Canada by 2007


Mike Oliveira, Canadian Press
Published: January 12, 2006
TORONTO -- A private health-care company announced Wednesday that it plans to move into Ontario this summer and every major Canadian city by 2007, but the province's health minister threatened heavy fines if the company contravenes legislation.

The announcement by Copeman Healthcare raised immediate criticism from observers, who warned such moves will erode the public system by redirecting resources and expertise to wealthier patients.

Copeman Healthcare said new clinics will open this summer in Toronto, Ottawa and London, Ont., while clinics could open in Halifax, Montreal, Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Calgary and Victoria within a couple of years.

For a $1,200 enrolment fee and $2,300 a year, Copeman Healthcare will offer access to a general practitioner plus specialists in the fields of cardiology, urology, orthopedics, neurology, oncology, gynecology, sports injury and pain management.

"It's time for action, not further debate," said founder and president Don Copeman, who opened the company's first private clinic in Vancouver last fall.

"We have very real solutions that can help Canada avert a crisis in primary care, and we believe that solving the problems in primary care is the key to the overall sustainability of our health-care system."

While Ontario Health Minister George Smitherman did not say he will stop the company from opening the clinics, he said he isn't endorsing the plan and needs to know more before he does so.

He said he's particularly concerned about the initiation fee, which seems to contravene provincial legislation.

"You can't have an access fee that a patient has to pay before they can receive service," Smitherman said. "That is exactly the kind of fee that seems to be a barrier to equitable access."

He said the provincial Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act outlines penalties of up to $25,000 per offence, including illegally charging patients for insured services or charging for quicker access to services, also known as queue jumping.

But Copeman insisted the company is acting within the guidelines of the Canada Health Act and provincial legislation, and said the government, not patients, gets a bill for any insured services covered by the Ontario Health Insurance Plan.

He suggested the private clinics will actually benefit the broader population. He said the clinics will save governments money by lessening the burden on the public system and keeping its clients healthier. Those healthier people will reduce demand for costly public treatments down the road, Copeman said.

Each of the Ontario clinics would have eight physicians and accept no more than 4,000 patients to limit wait times.

Minister of Health Promotion Jim Watson said health care should be based on a patient's need for treatment, not his or her bank account.

"I'm certainly concerned when I hear some people . . . saying, 'If it's a couple extra thousand dollars, I don't mind paying that,' " Watson said.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
I think not said:
Breakthrough you cracked me up calling it communism. :lol:

I don't know what else you would call it though.

Health is a provincial matter, so for the feds to centralize it and say only they can pay for the service and you have no other choice in the matter and are subject to government mismanagement....I would call it communism.

I just don't understand it I guess. Perhaps I need another round of shock therapy to straighten me out...
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: A fresh look at health care

KanBob said:
tracy said:
If people want private health care, they just have to go to the US.

That's just dumb though. Why not keep that business, and the jobs in Canada? Not to mention avoiding the travel and all the extra expenses.

Because it will destroy the public system. Look at the NHS in Britain as a preview.

Despite all the propaganda very few Canadians actually go out of the country for any medical services. We aren't losing much money or jobs when the few people do it.
 

KanBob

Nominee Member
Jan 11, 2006
71
0
6
Alberta
Re: RE: A fresh look at health care

tracy said:
Despite all the propaganda very few Canadians actually go out of the country for any medical services. We aren't losing much money or jobs when the few people do it.

That's not true at all. I had to spend $96,000 out of this country (Germany) when the system wouldn't provide any service.

But you'll find out one day. I really don't have to convince you of anything.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: A fresh look at health care

KanBob said:
tracy said:
Despite all the propaganda very few Canadians actually go out of the country for any medical services. We aren't losing much money or jobs when the few people do it.

That's not true at all. I had to spend $96,000 out of this country (Germany) when the system wouldn't provide any service.

But you'll find out one day. I really don't have to convince you of anything.

No offense meant, but one guy spending 96K isn't a big contribution to the healthcare system. I'll be spending a few thousand here in the US too, though fortunately not 96K! Yikes! But despite that being a lot of money for an individual, that isn't even a drop in the ocean when discussing health care costs and it certainly isn't impacting jobs in any significant way. We already have personell shortages in Canada, so a few people going to the US for treatment obviously isn't hurting us in that regard. Do you know how many Canadians actually go to the US for treatment every year? It's much lower than I would have thought considering the way the media hypes it. If those few people want to have their private healthcare and pay thousands of dollars for it, they can do that in the US without threatening the Canadian system.

I really don't want to see a US style or British style system in Canada. The private system just sucks money from the public system and the services they provide are often not so great. Health care businesses down here are often involved in one scandal or another. Just google for articles about Tenet. You can read about medicare fraud, unecessary surgeries performed to make money, etc.