Clever Clogs
Posts: 647 
January 12th, 2006, 10:08 PM
The Public Service Commission in a recent report found that 51% of placements in federal public service went to friends and relatives and it may be worse but crucial documents are missing.
And we have this report from Time Magazine on the election which is somewhat of a rarity in the US Press.
http://www.time.com/time/europe/maga...147120,00.html
This is the quote I find interesting.
“That's why an election that started out as a mere annoyance may pull the curtain down on a political era. According to one survey, 60% believe the government can't fix the cronyism that permeates the federal bureaucracy.”
I was talking to a friend who used to have a high ranking position in the ministry of an African country about corruption. I threw some of the choice tidbits from recent liberal history at him. Like the $161-million of business that Paul Martin’s company did with the government, much of this occurring when he was finance minister. In most countries this would be a scandal in itself. Then the Liberals reported to Parliament that the amount was only $137,000. Then when they got caught they claimed it was an accounting error. All of this was eyebrow raising.
But when I told him that 51% of all government jobs go to friends or relatives of current employees he was incredulous that this could be happening in a western country. He was equally amazed that such a government would have any public support.
Now we come to the poll cited by Time. At least 60% feel that this level of patronage and nepotism in the public sector is a problem even though they are somewhat fatalistic about it. It’s a wonder the government gets anything down at all as I don’t suppose any of the relatives being hired are uniquely qualified for their positions. One also has to assume this is a historical pattern and that many of the established employees who are now hiring relatives were as well hired through connections and these numbers are not reflected in the Public Service Commission Report. Then there are the missing documents so it could all be much worse then the scenario I am conjuring up.
If Harper is smart he will focus a great deal of energy on cleaning up the federal public service. There are certainly droves of scandals awaiting investigation and each one can be solidly pinned on the regime of the liberals. This would be a very effective way to consolidate power as well as to undermine any attempt by the liberals to mobilize and rebuild the party.
The Public Service Commission in a recent report found that 51% of placements in federal public service went to friends and relatives and it may be worse but crucial documents are missing.
And we have this report from Time Magazine on the election which is somewhat of a rarity in the US Press.
http://www.time.com/time/europe/maga...147120,00.html
This is the quote I find interesting.
“That's why an election that started out as a mere annoyance may pull the curtain down on a political era. According to one survey, 60% believe the government can't fix the cronyism that permeates the federal bureaucracy.”
I was talking to a friend who used to have a high ranking position in the ministry of an African country about corruption. I threw some of the choice tidbits from recent liberal history at him. Like the $161-million of business that Paul Martin’s company did with the government, much of this occurring when he was finance minister. In most countries this would be a scandal in itself. Then the Liberals reported to Parliament that the amount was only $137,000. Then when they got caught they claimed it was an accounting error. All of this was eyebrow raising.
But when I told him that 51% of all government jobs go to friends or relatives of current employees he was incredulous that this could be happening in a western country. He was equally amazed that such a government would have any public support.
Now we come to the poll cited by Time. At least 60% feel that this level of patronage and nepotism in the public sector is a problem even though they are somewhat fatalistic about it. It’s a wonder the government gets anything down at all as I don’t suppose any of the relatives being hired are uniquely qualified for their positions. One also has to assume this is a historical pattern and that many of the established employees who are now hiring relatives were as well hired through connections and these numbers are not reflected in the Public Service Commission Report. Then there are the missing documents so it could all be much worse then the scenario I am conjuring up.
If Harper is smart he will focus a great deal of energy on cleaning up the federal public service. There are certainly droves of scandals awaiting investigation and each one can be solidly pinned on the regime of the liberals. This would be a very effective way to consolidate power as well as to undermine any attempt by the liberals to mobilize and rebuild the party.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,465
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
January 12th, 2006, 11:13 PM
An interesting assertion.
I have no doubt that the Liberal Party of Canada may have more scandals in its past — but let us not forget that the Conservative Government of the Rt. Hon. John Macdonald was ultimately defeated due to a culmination of crippling scandals — the Tories are not blameless for scandals.
As for patronage and the appointment of friends, this has been the same with both parties — Grits, and Tories alike.
We cannot pin every problem in our system of governance on the Liberal Party of Canada, because this simply is not the case.
The Conservative Party of Canada is most certainly not a holy example of truth, accountability, nor righteousness. We need to be realistic.
An interesting assertion.
I have no doubt that the Liberal Party of Canada may have more scandals in its past — but let us not forget that the Conservative Government of the Rt. Hon. John Macdonald was ultimately defeated due to a culmination of crippling scandals — the Tories are not blameless for scandals.
As for patronage and the appointment of friends, this has been the same with both parties — Grits, and Tories alike.
We cannot pin every problem in our system of governance on the Liberal Party of Canada, because this simply is not the case.
The Conservative Party of Canada is most certainly not a holy example of truth, accountability, nor righteousness. We need to be realistic.
Member
Posts: 71
Location: nootaksas
Location: nootaksas
January 12th, 2006, 11:43 PM
Quote:
It would be interesting to see what crawls to the surface if Harper does win.
If Harper is smart he will focus a great deal of energy on cleaning up the federal public service. There are certainly droves of scandals awaiting investigation and each one can be solidly pinned on the regime of the liberals. This would be a very effective way to consolidate power as well as to undermine any attempt by the liberals to mobilize and rebuild the party.
Quote:
Corruption is not just a political party problem, or even a problem with our current system, its a problem with the basic human condition. But since we really can't throw out the human factor of politics then all we can really do is call for more transparency of government. Then nail them when we do find any wrong doings.
We cannot pin every problem in our system of governance on the Liberal Party of Canada, because this simply is not the case.
The Conservative Party of Canada is most certainly not a holy example of truth, accountability, nor righteousness. We need to be realistic.
The Conservative Party of Canada is most certainly not a holy example of truth, accountability, nor righteousness. We need to be realistic.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
January 13th, 2006, 07:02 AM
I think the tendency to rationalize corruption as something universal is actually part of the problem.* You elect corrupt leaders you get corrupt government.* Of course corruption is not simply a liberal issue and the same sort of patronage existed under previous governments. **But the liberals over the last century have become almost synonymous with the government of Canada.* They have been in control of government the majority of time and with this power comes responsibility.* They have not governed responsibly over the last decade.* To argue that the other party may turn out to be just as corrupt and so better the devil we know than the one we don’t is not realism but indifference.* Corruption is ubiquitous and so one just has to learn to live under its tentacles.*
*
Bureaucracies essentially become self-serving if there is no oversight and transparency or accountability when problems are uncovered.* This is the case in the Federal bureaucracy of Canada.* This problem has grown in magnitude over the last 13 years and the Liberal government that was in power during this stretch did nothing to correct this problem.* The conservatives under the Mulroney government did nothing as well but the problem has escalated since then.* The question is will Harper have the fortitude and political skill to tackle this problem?
*
Cronyism, corruption and incompetence in the federal civil service severely limits the effectiveness of government to provide essential services.* Canada resource wise is one of the richest countries in the world with a relatively small population in relation to the wealth it has. *Yet there seem to be very low standards set for the management of these resources.*
*
This week Copeman Healthcare announced that they will start to offer private health care in Canadian cities.* They are filling a vacuum and they will probably be successful.* But how should this success be interpreted?* Should it be used to point out the failings of public health care?* Or should it be seen—as I believe it should—as a temporary antidote to the failing of government and not of an ideal and this ideal should be preserved.* The only way to preserve the ideal is through accountability and to restore integrity to the system. Bad people ran the system. The system is not bad. We will create a system of checks and balances to ensure that we do not allow bad people to corrupt or ideals again. Seems simple enough.
*
But the impression I am starting to get is that politicians and much of the population has a genuine fear of the federal government.* What is the basis for this fear?* I can’t think of any rational reason for allowing the federal bureaucracy the level of autonomy and unchecked power is currently has.* These are not elected politicians but functionaries.* It seems very odd.*
I think the tendency to rationalize corruption as something universal is actually part of the problem.* You elect corrupt leaders you get corrupt government.* Of course corruption is not simply a liberal issue and the same sort of patronage existed under previous governments. **But the liberals over the last century have become almost synonymous with the government of Canada.* They have been in control of government the majority of time and with this power comes responsibility.* They have not governed responsibly over the last decade.* To argue that the other party may turn out to be just as corrupt and so better the devil we know than the one we don’t is not realism but indifference.* Corruption is ubiquitous and so one just has to learn to live under its tentacles.*
*
Bureaucracies essentially become self-serving if there is no oversight and transparency or accountability when problems are uncovered.* This is the case in the Federal bureaucracy of Canada.* This problem has grown in magnitude over the last 13 years and the Liberal government that was in power during this stretch did nothing to correct this problem.* The conservatives under the Mulroney government did nothing as well but the problem has escalated since then.* The question is will Harper have the fortitude and political skill to tackle this problem?
*
Cronyism, corruption and incompetence in the federal civil service severely limits the effectiveness of government to provide essential services.* Canada resource wise is one of the richest countries in the world with a relatively small population in relation to the wealth it has. *Yet there seem to be very low standards set for the management of these resources.*
*
This week Copeman Healthcare announced that they will start to offer private health care in Canadian cities.* They are filling a vacuum and they will probably be successful.* But how should this success be interpreted?* Should it be used to point out the failings of public health care?* Or should it be seen—as I believe it should—as a temporary antidote to the failing of government and not of an ideal and this ideal should be preserved.* The only way to preserve the ideal is through accountability and to restore integrity to the system. Bad people ran the system. The system is not bad. We will create a system of checks and balances to ensure that we do not allow bad people to corrupt or ideals again. Seems simple enough.
*
But the impression I am starting to get is that politicians and much of the population has a genuine fear of the federal government.* What is the basis for this fear?* I can’t think of any rational reason for allowing the federal bureaucracy the level of autonomy and unchecked power is currently has.* These are not elected politicians but functionaries.* It seems very odd.*
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366 
January 13th, 2006, 07:51 AM
I appreciate what you're saying here, but in one breath the left is telling us that the conservatives aren't the Tories because of the amalgamation of the Reform and the PCs...in the next breath were being compared to John Macdonald's party....so which one is it?
Quoting
An interesting assertion.
I have no doubt that the Liberal Party of Canada may have more scandals in its past — but let us not forget that the Conservative Government of the Rt. Hon. John Macdonald was ultimately defeated due to a culmination of crippling scandals — the Tories are not blameless for scandals.
As for patronage and the appointment of friends, this has been the same with both parties — Grits, and Tories alike.
We cannot pin every problem in our system of governance on the Liberal Party of Canada, because this simply is not the case.
The Conservative Party of Canada is most certainly not a holy example of truth, accountability, nor righteousness. We need to be realistic.
I have no doubt that the Liberal Party of Canada may have more scandals in its past — but let us not forget that the Conservative Government of the Rt. Hon. John Macdonald was ultimately defeated due to a culmination of crippling scandals — the Tories are not blameless for scandals.
As for patronage and the appointment of friends, this has been the same with both parties — Grits, and Tories alike.
We cannot pin every problem in our system of governance on the Liberal Party of Canada, because this simply is not the case.
The Conservative Party of Canada is most certainly not a holy example of truth, accountability, nor righteousness. We need to be realistic.
I appreciate what you're saying here, but in one breath the left is telling us that the conservatives aren't the Tories because of the amalgamation of the Reform and the PCs...in the next breath were being compared to John Macdonald's party....so which one is it?
House Member
Posts: 4,372
Location: Saint John N.B.
Location: Saint John N.B.
January 13th, 2006, 08:37 AM
No matter which party is elected,you can expect the hiring practices of the civil service to stay unchanged. Family members do have the edge in getting another family member a job, as do friends of friends[the way I got my job!]
No matter which party is elected,you can expect the hiring practices of the civil service to stay unchanged. Family members do have the edge in getting another family member a job, as do friends of friends[the way I got my job!]
House Member
Posts: 4,372
Location: Saint John N.B.
Location: Saint John N.B.
January 13th, 2006, 09:48 AM
I wrote those civil service exams for years and not even one job offer! And then,my sister was working in an insurance company with the sister of the then postmaster & mentioned she had a brother who needed a job. Voila! I became a mailman. A sidenote; the guy who came in before me had his father[a postal clerk] pull a few strings to get his.
I wrote those civil service exams for years and not even one job offer! And then,my sister was working in an insurance company with the sister of the then postmaster & mentioned she had a brother who needed a job. Voila! I became a mailman. A sidenote; the guy who came in before me had his father[a postal clerk] pull a few strings to get his.
