What are your thoughts on the leader.

Semperfi_dani

Electoral Member
Nov 1, 2005
482
0
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Edmonton
Ok..seriously..ignoring party lines and which party they belong to....

What do you think of each of Paul Martin, Stephen Harper, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe (and the guy from the Green Party if you want to include him, as they may or may not be a factor...).

I mean on a personal level...on a "why this person should be my leader" gut response?

Over to you all.
 

Citizen

Electoral Member
Jan 6, 2006
169
0
16
Semperfi_dani said:
Ok..seriously..ignoring party lines and which party they belong to....

What do you think of each of Paul Martin, Stephen Harper, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe (and the guy from the Green Party if you want to include him, as they may or may not be a factor...).

I mean on a personal level...on a "why this person should be my leader" gut response?

Over to you all.

Frankly, I don't want any of the aforementioned leaders to head this country.

Having said that, here's my take:

Martin: desperate, knows if he loses this election he's out for good, ready to ride off into the sunset

Harper: most assuredly someone not to be trusted. I don't like the man at all.

Layton: a non-entity.

Duceppe: a non-Canadian. :D
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
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I'm going to do a post about each of the first two, since I have a fair bit to say about each.

Paul Martin: I had strong doubts about the man back in his 'heir apparent' days. I used to think "Why is Paul Martin so popular within the Liberal party? Why do these people like him so much? I don't see him as particularly appealling, charismatic, charming, or thought-provoking at all."

At the time, I was hoping that Brian Tobin would assume the leadership of the Liberal Party after Jean Chretien left (I'm a Newfoundlander, which is admittably part of my reason for this ;) ). Watching Brian Tobin doing damage control for the Liberals lately has made it clear to me - he's by far the most cool, calm, and collected Liberal out there campaigning for his party. The man is smooth as silk. If he was leader of the Liberals right now, I would at least be consider voting for them. The Liberals would have been far better off with the genuinely likeable Tobin than with Martin.

Martin, in my view, is simply your typical run-of-the-mill politician, who is very good in a top cabinet position (I don't deny that he was an outstanding Finance Minister), but not well-suited for leadership of a political party. As I said to many Liberals back during his virtual coronation, "Why do you think being a great Finance Minister makes one a great Prime Minister? A Finance Minister doesn't have to think diddly squat about cultural/social issues, foreign policy, constitutional issues, and numerous other important issues to Canadians. I see no evidence that Paul Martin is very well versed in any of these areas."

His very poor handling of the notwithstanding clause issue is bearing that out.

I don't think that Paul Martin is a particularly corrupt politician, but I did get the feeling that he wanted to be Prime Minister simply for the sake of being Prime Minister. There hasn't been any grand vision coming from him, as there was with Pierre Trudeau, nor was there even the sense of wanting to continue on a strong tradition, as Jean Chretien wanted to carry on the Trudeau tradition.

In the likely event that the Liberals lose this election, they'll be better off with out him as their leader. He was an excellent Finance Minister, probably a decent enough guy for a politician, but ultimately a terrible party leader.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Opinion on Leaders

My order of precendence for leaders of this nation, notwithstanding their parties, would be:
  1. The Hon. Jack Layton
  2. The Hon. Gilles Duceppe (if he were only a federalist, eh?)
  3. The Rt. Hon. Paul Martin
  4. Jim Harris
  5. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth
  6. Elmo
  7. a banana
  8. The Hon. Stephen Harper
:!:Edit • Corrected a typo of Her Majesty's name, lol.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: Opinion on Leaders

FiveParadox said:
My order of precendence for leaders of this nation, notwithstanding their parties, would be:
  1. The Hon. Jack Layton
  2. The Hon. Gilles Duceppe (if he were only a federalist, eh?)
  3. The Rt. Hon. Paul Martin
  4. Jim Harris
  5. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth
  6. Elmo
  7. a banana
  8. The Hon. Stephen Harper
:!:Edit • Corrected a typo of Her Majesty's name, lol.


:laughing3:
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
0
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Stephen Harper: Has earned a second look from me.

After the last federal election, and the lost of Belinda Stronach to the Liberals, I thought that the man was greatly lacking political savvy, and that the Conservatives would probably be better off with a different leader for their party.

Boy, it sure seems like I was wrong.

Harper has changed a lot. At the absolute least, it's clear that he has become profoundly well versed in the issues that matter to Canadians at a region-by-region basis (this is indicated by changing sentiments, even here in Newfoundland, and certainly in Quebec), and knows how to run a simply textbook federal campaign.

I do dislike his stance on health care, but then the Liberals are no better. One would hurt health care through use of a privatized system, while the other would hurt health care by simple neglect.

That notwithstanding, I don't see him as this scary guy. He's clearly become very politically shrewed, and I just can't see a shrewed Canadian Prime Minister attempting to govern a center-left country (which we are) from the right. Certianly not in his first term, anyway. Maybe I'm being naive, but that's me. I mean, even George W down in America hasn't banned abortion down there - I think that it's ludicrious to think that Harper would even attempt such legislation up here in considerably more liberal Canada in his first term.

He does strike me as genuinely likeable. I honestly can't help but grow to like him, given his calm, reasoned approach to almost everything in this election.

And he has earned some additional admiration from me simply for how he's potentially saving Quebec from the seperatists. Just when we needed a strong new federalist face, it looks like he may be providing it. I can't help but chuckle at the idea of an old Reform party member becoming the face of federalism in Quebec. The idea would be so absurd a few years ago that this potentially looming reality is highly amusing to me. I like it.

It makes me think "Anything can happen in Canada". :)
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
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FiveParadox - Why do you hate Harper so much? I really don't get this hatred for Harper coming from those on the left.

I would never flatout hate a politician just because he disagrees with me on policy issues. This is how I can admire both Pierre Trudeau, and former American President Ronald Reagan. Very different men policy wise, but both had an overall positive effect on their country, and/or the world at large.

Do you really hate the man just because of his political policies? Or is there more to it than that?
 

Citizen

Electoral Member
Jan 6, 2006
169
0
16
Re: RE: What are your thoughts on the leader.

Triple_R said:
At the time, I was hoping that Brian Tobin would assume the leadership of the Liberal Party after Jean Chretien left (I'm a Newfoundlander, which is admittably part of my reason for this ;) ).

My understanding is that Chretien wanted Tobin to lead the Liberal party. That, and the well known animosity between Chretien and Martin, makes me wonder if Chretien has had a hand in torpedoing Martin's campaign. :?
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
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Vancouver, BC
I do not hate Mr. Harper; he is the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, and he climbed the ranks in the House of Commons. I have a profound respect for anyone who can do that. Unfortunately, I also think that he does not have what it takes to be a Prime Minister.

Firstly, I have a gut feeling on the matter, and that guides my opinion to a great extend, whether or not it would be correct to allow myself to do so.

Secondly, his public speaking skills put me off; personally, I think his ethics are questionable (but let's not break into a debate on this matter, as I am sure the creator of this thread would not like this to turn into another Liberal—Tory brawl), and I simply think that he lacks the energy and enthusiasm as I would deem inherently necessary to the head of our Government.

That's just my opinion though, and you obviously disagree. ;) But that's the nice thing about Canada, we're allowed to disagree on things like this. eh?
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
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Jack Layton: A genuinely likeable man. Very knowledgeable on the issues. Very sound position on Health Care. Probably the most trustworthy of the political leaders given that his policy positions haven't changed much at all (if at all) during his entire tenure as NDP party leader.

However, to use a hockey analogy, Jack Layton is like an Ok no. 1 goalie for a NHL team. He's not going to carry you to a Stanley Cup (a la Patrick Roy), but if you give him a great team to work with, he's solid, and he'll help get you there.

However, that's the problem... Jack simply isn't controversial enough to gain much traction for the NDP. He has a little over a week to prove me wrong, but it doesn't seem like he's willing to take a risk to try to get a breakthrough. Why he isn't trying to really capitalize on the falling Liberals is beyond me. Did he not watch the 1993 election? Does he not know how bad things can get for the ruling party when it starts to fall wildly in the polls?

I'd love to have Jack Layton over for dinner. I'd like him as Prime Minister much more than I'd like Martin. But, he's just not the breakthrough guy for the NDP.

Duceppe: Very charismatic, but the old seperatist talk annoys me. How many times do you have to lose a referendum before you simply give up? I really wish that Quebec would quit with the seperatist nonsense.
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
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Re: RE: What are your thoughts on the leader.

FiveParadox said:
I do not hate Mr. Harper; he is the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, and he climbed the ranks in the House of Commons. I have a profound respect for anyone who can do that. Unfortunately, I also think that he does not have what it takes to be a Prime Minister.

Firstly, I have a gut feeling on the matter, and that guides my opinion to a great extend, whether or not it would be correct to allow myself to do so.

Secondly, his public speaking skills put me off; personally, I think his ethics are questionable (but let's not break into a debate on this matter, as I am sure the creator of this thread would not like this to turn into another Liberal—Tory brawl), and I simply think that he lacks the energy and enthusiasm as I would deem inherently necessary to the head of our Government.

That's just my opinion though, and you obviously disagree. ;) But that's the nice thing about Canada, we're allowed to disagree on things like this. eh?

Well, I may be seeing him in an overly positive light due to his effect in Quebec. The Bloc really tick me off. I really wish that they'd just go away. We waste so much time each, and every, federal election with the OLD Federalist vs. Seperatist debate.

To paraphrase both Stephen Harper, and Jack Layton: This is an old debate that could go on to the end of time.

The last thing we need is a stronger Bloc presence in Ottawa. That'll just lead to another Referendum. Which they'll probably narrowly lose. With the lost being narrow enough to keep the Bloc energized. Eventually, in a decade or so, they'll feel primed to give the referendum another shot. Which they'll again probably narrowly lose. Ad infitium. Ad naseum...
 

Citizen

Electoral Member
Jan 6, 2006
169
0
16
Re: RE: What are your thoughts on the leader.

FiveParadox said:
Firstly, I have a gut feeling on the matter, and that guides my opinion to a great extend, whether or not it would be correct to allow myself to do so.

If I may advise, in all matters go with your gut feeling as that is intuition. :)
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: Opinion on Leaders

FiveParadox said:
My order of precendence for leaders of this nation, notwithstanding their parties, would be:
  1. The Hon. Jack Layton
  2. The Hon. Gilles Duceppe (if he were only a federalist, eh?)
  3. The Rt. Hon. Paul Martin
  4. Jim Harris
  5. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth
  6. Elmo
  7. a banana
  8. The Hon. Stephen Harper
:!:Edit • Corrected a typo of Her Majesty's name, lol.

I second that list.... well... for the most part. :p I would add Carrot Top after Elmo..
 

KanBob

Nominee Member
Jan 11, 2006
71
0
6
Alberta
I watched Stephen Harper's speech during the roll out of the Conservative Platform this morning.

Spectacular! I loved his intro to the platform. He said "for the past few weeks we have told you what we will do and now I want to tell you why."

His "why" spoke of the values that have been long lost in Canada.

During his discussion on Integrity, I thought, "Paul Martin wants this election to be a discussion on values, well, here they are."

I'll take the Conservative values as articulated by Stephen Harper this morning, hands down.

Supposedly, countries get the government they deserve; but maybe this time Canadians can get a better Prime Minister than they deserve.