Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838 
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 11th, 2006, 04:30 PM
This all has to do with the ads about the military that the Libs posted in French and English to scare the population about the military.
To note it was the Libs that sent the military into Quebec during the FLQ crisis this is a bunch of baloney from a party that will lose.
I am glad I am voting NDP.
Disgraceful for our men and women in uniform, I being among them.
OTTAWA — Soldiers past and present say they are insulted and outraged by a “despicable” and “incredibly stupid” Liberal campaign ad suggesting Canadian cities would be subject to military occupation under a Conservative government.
“It's pretty dumb to use soldiers as a wedge issue,” said retired general Lewis MacKenzie, who ran for the Tories and lost in 1997. “It took my breath away; I just couldn't believe anybody could be that dumb.”
The ad, which Liberals say was pulled before it ever ran on television, opens with the ominous sound of a military drumbeat and the Conservative leader's blurred face in the background.
As the face comes slowly into focus, a concerned, measured voice speaks behind the words on the screen: “Stephen Harper actually announced he wants to increase military presence in our cities.
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“Canadian cities. Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada.
“We did not make this up. Choose your Canada.”
The ad was pulled from the Liberal party's English website but still appeared Wednesday afternoon on the party's French website.
Liberal spokesman Steve McKinnon said the ad was never approved and was included on a DVD distributed to the media and on the Liberal website in error. He said it was not run and will not be run.
The Tories, who have proposed a permanent military presence in major Canadian cities as a ready aid in emergencies, said the ad implies that they are advocating some form of martial law.
The issue is particularly sensitive in Quebec, where long-held mistrust and resentment of the military was exacerbated in 1970 when the Liberal government of the day ordered martial law amid the FLQ crisis.
Soldiers, sailors and aircrew are formally prohibited from making public political comment or responding to political policy. But that didn't stop some from e-mailing expressions of outrage to advocacy and veterans' groups.
“People I work with echo my disgust that Canadian politicians are now using Canadian Forces personnel, past and present, to threaten people into voting Liberal,” said one airman from Cold Lake, Alta.
The airman, who has served for 26 years, wrote in the e-mail to a national veterans' group that the ad appears directed at least partly at immigrants whose experience with militaries are almost invariably negative.
“We can only see this as a desperate attempt to win a few votes from what some would call the ethnic minority,” he said.
“We have been honoured to walk Canadian streets. We have gone to the aid of municipalities in ice storms and the odd snow flurry in Toronto. If a city asked us for armed help during a crisis (as in the Oka or FLQ incidents, both a Quebec problem), I hope we would serve Canada well.”
Retired colonel Alain Pellerin called the ad an act of desperation that is particularly “despicable” since CF members — even the chief of defence staff — are muzzled and cannot publicly respond.
“To use the Armed Forces for a purely crass political aim, to me is despicable,” said Pellerin, a former infantryman who heads the Conference of Defence Associations, a lobby group and think tank.
He said it's even more offensive given that it's virtually the only reference the Liberals have made to the military in the entire campaign.
The Conservatives are not proposing anything new, Pellerin added.
“The army with guns in the city — we've been there since the foundation of the colony. Most of the time they were there to help ... like the Winnipeg floods, the floods in the Saguenay, the ice storm in Ontario.”
In an on-line blog, former navy seaman Lance Levsen of Delisle, Sask., said he was angered by the ad.
“That ad doesn't attack Harper and the (Conservatives). It attacks me,” Levsen wrote. “The group of people that this ad targets are suggested to be a threat to peace in our Home and Native Land. That was me. ME! “That ad targets my comrades who had the courage to join a profession whose job description includes death. That ad targets the heroic people of the UN peacekeeping missions who stand between warring factions defending peace.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...lDecision2006/
This all has to do with the ads about the military that the Libs posted in French and English to scare the population about the military.
To note it was the Libs that sent the military into Quebec during the FLQ crisis this is a bunch of baloney from a party that will lose.
I am glad I am voting NDP.
Disgraceful for our men and women in uniform, I being among them.
OTTAWA — Soldiers past and present say they are insulted and outraged by a “despicable” and “incredibly stupid” Liberal campaign ad suggesting Canadian cities would be subject to military occupation under a Conservative government.
“It's pretty dumb to use soldiers as a wedge issue,” said retired general Lewis MacKenzie, who ran for the Tories and lost in 1997. “It took my breath away; I just couldn't believe anybody could be that dumb.”
The ad, which Liberals say was pulled before it ever ran on television, opens with the ominous sound of a military drumbeat and the Conservative leader's blurred face in the background.
As the face comes slowly into focus, a concerned, measured voice speaks behind the words on the screen: “Stephen Harper actually announced he wants to increase military presence in our cities.
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“Canadian cities. Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada.
“We did not make this up. Choose your Canada.”
The ad was pulled from the Liberal party's English website but still appeared Wednesday afternoon on the party's French website.
Liberal spokesman Steve McKinnon said the ad was never approved and was included on a DVD distributed to the media and on the Liberal website in error. He said it was not run and will not be run.
The Tories, who have proposed a permanent military presence in major Canadian cities as a ready aid in emergencies, said the ad implies that they are advocating some form of martial law.
The issue is particularly sensitive in Quebec, where long-held mistrust and resentment of the military was exacerbated in 1970 when the Liberal government of the day ordered martial law amid the FLQ crisis.
Soldiers, sailors and aircrew are formally prohibited from making public political comment or responding to political policy. But that didn't stop some from e-mailing expressions of outrage to advocacy and veterans' groups.
“People I work with echo my disgust that Canadian politicians are now using Canadian Forces personnel, past and present, to threaten people into voting Liberal,” said one airman from Cold Lake, Alta.
The airman, who has served for 26 years, wrote in the e-mail to a national veterans' group that the ad appears directed at least partly at immigrants whose experience with militaries are almost invariably negative.
“We can only see this as a desperate attempt to win a few votes from what some would call the ethnic minority,” he said.
“We have been honoured to walk Canadian streets. We have gone to the aid of municipalities in ice storms and the odd snow flurry in Toronto. If a city asked us for armed help during a crisis (as in the Oka or FLQ incidents, both a Quebec problem), I hope we would serve Canada well.”
Retired colonel Alain Pellerin called the ad an act of desperation that is particularly “despicable” since CF members — even the chief of defence staff — are muzzled and cannot publicly respond.
“To use the Armed Forces for a purely crass political aim, to me is despicable,” said Pellerin, a former infantryman who heads the Conference of Defence Associations, a lobby group and think tank.
He said it's even more offensive given that it's virtually the only reference the Liberals have made to the military in the entire campaign.
The Conservatives are not proposing anything new, Pellerin added.
“The army with guns in the city — we've been there since the foundation of the colony. Most of the time they were there to help ... like the Winnipeg floods, the floods in the Saguenay, the ice storm in Ontario.”
In an on-line blog, former navy seaman Lance Levsen of Delisle, Sask., said he was angered by the ad.
“That ad doesn't attack Harper and the (Conservatives). It attacks me,” Levsen wrote. “The group of people that this ad targets are suggested to be a threat to peace in our Home and Native Land. That was me. ME! “That ad targets my comrades who had the courage to join a profession whose job description includes death. That ad targets the heroic people of the UN peacekeeping missions who stand between warring factions defending peace.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...lDecision2006/
Executive Member
Posts: 9,207 
January 11th, 2006, 04:43 PM
If the Liberals did suggest that Harper might put the military into our cities, how in the hell is that an insult to our military? I think Harper is probably capable of just about anything and we should worry about him. Just have a look at what is happening in the states. That is where Harper's hero is.
If the Liberals did suggest that Harper might put the military into our cities, how in the hell is that an insult to our military? I think Harper is probably capable of just about anything and we should worry about him. Just have a look at what is happening in the states. That is where Harper's hero is.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 11th, 2006, 04:51 PM
It is a insult to the military because they are using the military as a tool against the Canadian people.
They are saying, oh look, Harper wants to put the military into Canadian cities and may possibly call in martial law. Playing on the FLQ crisis.
It leads to mistrust with Canadians against its military, anyone can see that.
Through the use of fear, not only are they trying to damage Harper but the military as well.
It is a insult to the military because they are using the military as a tool against the Canadian people.
They are saying, oh look, Harper wants to put the military into Canadian cities and may possibly call in martial law. Playing on the FLQ crisis.
It leads to mistrust with Canadians against its military, anyone can see that.
Through the use of fear, not only are they trying to damage Harper but the military as well.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 11th, 2006, 05:01 PM
Soldiers ... Guns ... City streets in your ad.
That implies martial law. That creates fear, not only towards Harper but to the military.
Quote:
Then go after the prospective Prime Minister and don't say
I repeat; One prime minister saying the prospective prime minister might use the military for one purpose or another is not an insult to the military. Think about it, just a little....
Soldiers ... Guns ... City streets in your ad.
That implies martial law. That creates fear, not only towards Harper but to the military.
Member
Posts: 103
Location: Rexburg, Idaho
Location: Rexburg, Idaho
January 11th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Funny thing is the military is already in every major canadian city. Another miscalculation for the liberals. You wonder how many times they can screw this up.
Adding insult to injury, after they said the ad was pulled, it was seen all over Quebec television today.
Funny thing is the military is already in every major canadian city. Another miscalculation for the liberals. You wonder how many times they can screw this up.
Adding insult to injury, after they said the ad was pulled, it was seen all over Quebec television today.
Bright Spark
Posts: 277
January 11th, 2006, 06:15 PM
I was in the military and based in 3 Canadian cities...Kingston, Halifax and Calgary. My memory must be fading because I just can't remember participating in any coup d'etats and taking over city hall with our 'guns'.
The ad has summed up just how desperate and pathetic the Liberal Party has become. A group of 10 year olds should have expected the quite-correct backlash. The ad is an insult to every Canadian who ever put on the uniform. In Calgary we have monu,mnets to hundreds of soldiers who were stationed in Calgary in both wars before being sent overseas and never returned. Martin is a pig!
I was in the military and based in 3 Canadian cities...Kingston, Halifax and Calgary. My memory must be fading because I just can't remember participating in any coup d'etats and taking over city hall with our 'guns'.
The ad has summed up just how desperate and pathetic the Liberal Party has become. A group of 10 year olds should have expected the quite-correct backlash. The ad is an insult to every Canadian who ever put on the uniform. In Calgary we have monu,mnets to hundreds of soldiers who were stationed in Calgary in both wars before being sent overseas and never returned. Martin is a pig!
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,465
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
January 11th, 2006, 06:23 PM
In my opinion, supporters of the Conservative Party of Canada are setting a double-standard in acting offended at the recent advertisements released for circulation by the Liberal Party of Canada; from the start of the campaign period, the Tories have been airing anti-Liberal advertisements on television, and taking quotes entirely out-of-context from the first report of the Hon. Justice Gomery.
As a caller into the post-debate coverage on CPAC noted, the Opposition appears completely ready to sling mud, yet not to get dirty.
Edit Corrected a typo.
In my opinion, supporters of the Conservative Party of Canada are setting a double-standard in acting offended at the recent advertisements released for circulation by the Liberal Party of Canada; from the start of the campaign period, the Tories have been airing anti-Liberal advertisements on television, and taking quotes entirely out-of-context from the first report of the Hon. Justice Gomery.
As a caller into the post-debate coverage on CPAC noted, the Opposition appears completely ready to sling mud, yet not to get dirty.
Edit Corrected a typo. Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 11th, 2006, 06:25 PM
And to note, it is the Liberals who were the only ones in the last 40s years to use the Canadian military against the Canadian people.
Besides we already have armouries and small bases already in most major Canadian towns and cities anyway.
Ads like this just makes me feel like I should vote Conservative. However, I will do one better and vote NDP.
Quote:
Exactly, it makes the thought that soldiers are irresponsible and cannot be trusted.
I hear the ads are still there in French.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. The tone of voice in the ad was very insulting, as if you can't trust SOLDIERS with GUNS....
Stupid, stupid, stupid. The tone of voice in the ad was very insulting, as if you can't trust SOLDIERS with GUNS....
And to note, it is the Liberals who were the only ones in the last 40s years to use the Canadian military against the Canadian people.
Besides we already have armouries and small bases already in most major Canadian towns and cities anyway.
Ads like this just makes me feel like I should vote Conservative. However, I will do one better and vote NDP.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 11th, 2006, 06:28 PM
I don't like the cons or the libs, but in this ad the Liberals have directly attacked the military, not just the Conservatives on this one. The people that protect their sorry asses.
Quote:
FiveParadox. I don't really care if the Conservatives, the NDP, the Liberals and the others sling mud at each other. They could do the most nasty attack on each other, and I still would be happy.
In my opinion, supporters of the Conservative Party of Canada are setting a double-standard in acting offended at the recent advertisements released for circulation by the Liberal Party of Canada; from the start of the campaign period, the Tories have been airing anti-Liberal advertisements on television, and taking quotes entirely out-of-context from the first report of the Hon. Justice Gomery.
As a caller into the post-election coverage on CPAC noted, the Opposition appears completely ready to sling mud, yet not to get dirty.
As a caller into the post-election coverage on CPAC noted, the Opposition appears completely ready to sling mud, yet not to get dirty.
I don't like the cons or the libs, but in this ad the Liberals have directly attacked the military, not just the Conservatives on this one. The people that protect their sorry asses.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,465
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
January 11th, 2006, 06:33 PM
This advertisement, in my opinion, was not an attack on the Canadian Armed Forces; rather, I would assert that the ad was harsh criticism of the Conservative Party of Canada.
The ad, I would think, serves to criticize the Opposition for what could be inappropriate use of the Armed Forces. In any case, my opinion is that the Tories should take care not to incite some sort of anxiety regarding the use, whether it be appropriate or inappropriate, of the Armed Forces; that having been said, I would also think that the Grits should be more careful about their advertisement campaign in the future.
Where one's ad draws criticism toward yourself rather than the opponent, then whether or not the points in the ad are true, such an advertisement would be considered an abject failure.
This advertisement, in my opinion, was not an attack on the Canadian Armed Forces; rather, I would assert that the ad was harsh criticism of the Conservative Party of Canada.
The ad, I would think, serves to criticize the Opposition for what could be inappropriate use of the Armed Forces. In any case, my opinion is that the Tories should take care not to incite some sort of anxiety regarding the use, whether it be appropriate or inappropriate, of the Armed Forces; that having been said, I would also think that the Grits should be more careful about their advertisement campaign in the future.
Where one's ad draws criticism toward yourself rather than the opponent, then whether or not the points in the ad are true, such an advertisement would be considered an abject failure.
