Mike Harris should be charged

[Jersay]

I truly believe that Mike Harris or someone within his cabinet and the OPP of the time during the murder of Dudley George and that is what it is, when the OPP murdered Dudley George should be charged with murder or an accomplice to murder or something.

Shows what a red-neck, conservative at its worst can do.

http://sisis.nativeweb.org/ipperwash/arch01.html

http://sisis.nativeweb.org/ipperwash/phone.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/ipperwash/history.html

http://members.fortunecity.com/brutalitycanada/background george.html

http://www.icl-fi.org/english/spc/146/dudleygeorge.html

He an his government as well as the OPP killed an innocent person. Not only should the cop who fired sshould have been charged, but the motivation behind it and the racist attitudes of the provincial conservative government led to the death of Dudley George.

 

[Jay]

http://www.ipperwashinquiry.ca/

 

[Texas1]

And the Liberal Gov't should be behind bars too, thats not going to happen either.

 

[karra]

Good grief - I was under the impression the copper who shot and killed Dudley was prosecuted and convicted - could I be mistaken, nawww. . . . .

 

[Andem]

I just finished watching parts of that on CTV, "One dead Indian". This program seemed to be one-sided and in my opinion, promoted racism against people with white skin. Anyways, I know a copper (OPP) who was connected to one of the officers involved and according to them, the whole thing was blown up beyond proportion.

I've heard too many accusations and arguements from one side (the site the media's on), and I don't believe any of us have heard the whole story. They were on crown land and they shouldn't have been. They should have expected conflict, and it was dark - one cop saw one thing and the other saw something else. I know I wouldn't walk upto cops pointing their guns at me with anything in my hands - infact my hands would be up at that point.

 

[Jay]

The link I posted above has the transcripts of the inquiry. I haven't read all of it, but it is worth reading.

 

[Jersay]

I just finished watching parts of that on CTV, "One dead Indian". This program seemed to be one-sided and in my opinion, promoted racism against people with white skin. Anyways, I know a copper (OPP) who was connected to one of the officers involved and according to them, the whole thing was blown up beyond proportion.

I've heard too many accusations and arguements from one side (the site the media's on), and I don't believe any of us have heard the whole story. They were on crown land and they shouldn't have been. They should have expected conflict, and it was dark - one cop saw one thing and the other saw something else. I know I wouldn't walk upto cops pointing their guns at me with anything in my hands - infact my hands would be up at that point.

Dudley George, was walking to see if his brother and the other kid was okay in the school bus that they had shot at. He had a stick, if he had a gun and wanted to shoot cops won't he had fired already.

Also, the cops at the hospital prevented the two family members from getting him into the hospital that could have saved him.

Good grief - I was under the impression the copper who shot and killed Dudley was prosecuted and convicted - could I be mistaken, nawww. . . . .

The cop who shot Dudley shouldn't be a scape goat for the government officials and the top cops who decided to kick off the Indians from 'their land', its crown land that was Native land. They set up going in at night, they knew something was going to happen. Harris, the bastard, wanted to stop appeasing the Native people, so he decided to have the cops shoot him.

And the Liberal Gov't should be behind bars too, thats not going to happen either.

Yeah, the Liberals should be charged with their crimes but they did not murder an innocent civilian.[/quote]

 

[Jay]

"Harris, the bastard, wanted to stop appeasing the Native people, so he decided to have the cops shoot him."


You must have some evidence to back that up, or is it libel? I say libel.

 

[Jersay]

If you what the movie, One Dead Indian, you can hear the two cops talking about the policy that Harris wanted to develop several hours before Ipperwash.

It is a known fact in the recording.

The bastard part is what I think the guy is. But other than that, watch the movie, or find the tape recordings that were released and you will hear what they say.

 

[Andem]

Yeah, the Liberals should be charged with their crimes but they did not murder an innocent civilian.

How was Dudley George an innocent civilian? He was trespassing on government property. Would you expect me to survive if I took over one of my local provincial government offices? I don't think so.. especially if I was walking around in the dark with a stick, it could be mistaken for anything.

I don't think the officers really did anything wrong. Sure maybe one of them made a mistake (then remember, none of us were really there), but he was a threat to police.

I agree we should stop 'appeasing' natives. They already get free everything, and I do mean everything. Then they take over military bases and provincial parks.

 

[Jay]

I'm pretty sure the cops were not taking this lightly, and I'm pretty sure they were "afraid" of the "park occupiers" as it is a know fact that in one of the last incidences, the natives shot at a helicopter.

 

[Jersay]

How was Dudley George an innocent civilian? He was trespassing on government property. Would you expect me to survive if I took over one of my local provincial government offices? I don't think so.. especially if I was walking around in the dark with a stick, it could be mistaken for anything.

I don't think the officers really did anything wrong. Sure maybe one of them made a mistake (then remember, none of us were really there), but he was a threat to police.

I agree we should stop 'appeasing' natives. They already get free everything, and I do mean everything. Then they take over military bases and provincial parks.

Is it a crime to protest something illegal in Canada? I am apart of the Canadian military and I agree that these 'military bases' should have been taken over when during the war space was needed to train soldiers to fight in world war two. However, agreements were signed that aboriginal land, this was aboriginal land, most Crown land is, because of the Royal Proclamation, would be returned after the war. However, that did not happen so they got sick and tired and occupied their burial land, tough luck if it became a park.

Dudley George was an innocent civilian, or you could say an innocent protestor at most because he was protesting something wrong. The police moved in on them and when Dudley was checking on his brother he was shot and killed, he was murdered.

And they get everything free because it is in treaties. In Treaty 7 it claims a medicine chest which changes into Health Care. Second, they weren't Canadian citizens to 1960 so they didn't have to pay taxes. The Nisga'a agreement has them paying taxes in 10 years.

And for taking there land, and looting it of its natural resources. I think it is their every right to protest for their rights once and a while.

I'm pretty sure the cops were not taking this lightly, and I'm pretty sure they were "afraid" of the "park occupiers" as it is a know fact that in one of the last incidences, the natives shot at a helicopter.

Maybe so, but native people after a while when they ask for their rights through treaties or court system and when their rights are being rejected and people do not care about their rights it is not that hard for some natives to pick up guns in some instances.

However, to note only in Oka, when the Provincial police charged the barricade, just like in Ipperwash, were shots fired and a police officer killed.

However, as a soldier in the Canadian army I am under oath to the Queen, so if I am ever in a situation like that, even if I agree with the Aboriginal stance, I will follow the government in whatever policy it decides.

 

[bumbo]

I am just going to repost this here for those who are reading this thread as opposed to the one about CTV's Movie. I feel that it needs to be posted and read by everyone to form an opinion from both sides of the argument.

As a former Army Cadet at CFB Ipperwash during the initial stages of the take over I find it quite disturbing to only hear the biased side of the story from the side of the natives. I agree it was tragic that someone lost thier life, but to believe that the natives were unarmed would be a major oversight especially when, while occupying our Rifle Range at Ipperwash they decided around 3-4 times a day that they would jump in thier pickups and drive accross our football field firing thier rifles in the air in the hopes of scaring off the military prescence there. It worked, my group staying there was the last one to be able to enjoy the experience of CFB Ipperwash. I agree that perhaps the police were a little overzelous and were most likely expecting a larger crowd, but I don't believe they were completely in the wrong either. I personally feel that this report may acctually be truthful:
http://sisis.nativeweb.org/ipperwash/tapr0997.html
I am merely a former cadet who, given the chance, would stand up on behalf of the government to testify to what I did see while staying at Ipperwash because this has gone on long enough and the public deserves the truth and Officer Deane deserves his job and his dignity back.

-Rick Glassford
Former L/Cpl
59th Essex and Kent Scottish
Highlander Legion Cadet Corps.

 

[bluealberta]

Those of us who were not there have no right to criticize anyone, native or otherwise. Anyone who has been in an explosive situation at night, in the dark, with confusion all around, knows that what seems logical in the light of day was something totally different in the dark. Perhaps both sides were right, perhaps both sides were wrong. But I seriously doubt Harris had a policy drawn up to kill Dudley George.

 

[Jersay]

Those of us who were not there have no right to criticize anyone, native or otherwise. Anyone who has been in an explosive situation at night, in the dark, with confusion all around, knows that what seems logical in the light of day was something totally different in the dark. Perhaps both sides were right, perhaps both sides were wrong. But I seriously doubt Harris had a policy drawn up to kill Dudley George.

But he had a policy of confrontation which in Canada doesn't work that well. Look at Oka for an example. From the inquiry that is taking place one can see the clear racist policy of the government of Ontario and the OPP which resulted in turning the natives to less than human. So it makes it easier to shoot one of them.

By sending the cops in at night, how about if a police officer was killed, he should at least be charged with neglect. It was a dangerous situation on both sides, that went even more dangerous when the government ordered the park removed of inhabitants.

 

[Jay]

Well, there was always the option of finding another way to protest. I have a few things I want to protest too...should my buddies and myself arm ourselves and take over a public piece of land?

I'm not buying the "turning the natives to less than human" argument in the least BTW.

The whole situation is bad, and the region (Ipperwash) has suffered from it. Land values dropped and tensions where raised. Tourism went down etc.

 

[Jersay]

The whole situation is bad, and the region (Ipperwash) has suffered from it. Land values dropped and tensions where raised. Tourism went down etc.

Tensions were always there, it just reached a peak when Dudley got shot and before when they took over the park. Look or listen to the OPP tapes, it is a known fact that they tried to turn the Natives into less then human, it is a known fact in the inquiry that the Liberal government in Ontario set up.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

Hmmm. An explosive situation. Guns drawn. Darkness. Someone waving a stick in the darkness that could be taken as a long gun.

Someone gets shot. What a surprise.

 

[Jersay]

The officer behind the one who fired the shots could clearly see that it was a stick so that defence is extremely shallow.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

What was he doing carrying a stick? Doing his best impression of Yoda? He was intending on hitting someone with it was he not?

The cop behind him who saw that it was a stick didn't fire the shot, the cop that didn't realize he was carrying a stick did.