Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

[cub1c]

It's been a long time I haven't been here, but at first sight, it seems nothing changed.

Sorry to break your party, but Québec's future will be decided by Québécois. You can say all the Chrétion's rhetoric you want, nobody believes them anymore in Québec.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Québec's destiny will

Your welcome, Cub1c. There is more at issue than just Quebec going its own way though and that includes people inside and outside of Quebec.

 

[PoisonPete2]

apparently it took about a hundred and fifty million to sway the vote last time, but it wasn't very well distributed. Paying the puppet masters was a sad day for democracy, but if you want to form your own country, you will have to learn to cut the strings before you pull the plug.

"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder ": George Washington

 

[cub1c]

RE: Québec's destiny will

The same way US's decision influence Canada.

Still, it's our decision.

 

[Colpy]

It's been a long time I haven't been here, but at first sight, it seems nothing changed.

Sorry to break your party, but Québec's future will be decided by Québécois. You can say all the Chrétion's rhetoric you want, nobody believes them anymore in Québec.

Thank you for your time.

Man, are you and I ever going to bang heads.

Yes, being a democrat means that, under certain conditions, Quebec could leave Canada.

Those conditions would be a clear majority in response to a clear question, and then negotiation of borders and debt repayment.

No "sovereignty with association", no Canadian passports, no part of Labrador, no Ungava (unless areas voted strongly for separation), no miltary hardware, and certainly no UDI.

You should read a little history to get some idea of the fire you are playing with.

A Unilateral Declaration of Independence will result in civil war.

That means you get a bayonet in the arse.

 

[TenPenny]

I agree it's "your decision", but remember that "you" includes the native population. And the non-Francophones. And the immigrants.

But what the hell; the modern way of thinking is so self centered, go ahead. I can't wait until Newfoundland cuts the wires to Hydro Quebec, and the rest of us tell you to pay for all the federal land and buildings left behind.

If you truly want to leave this great country, I will miss you, but after a while you get tired of the whiny shit.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

apparently it took about a hundred and fifty million to sway the vote last time, but it wasn't very well distributed. Paying the puppet masters was a sad day for democracy, but if you want to form your own country, you will have to learn to cut the strings before you pull the plug.

"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder ": George Washington

I think it's more in the 250 M$...
Cut the string before pulling the plug? You mean like get our tax back in here before seperation? I agree.

And Canada doesn't have any lessons to give to us, or anybody, about building a country. You have your second biggest province that want's to seperate, I dont think we can call that success.

 

[cub1c]

A Unilateral Declaration of Independence will result in civil war.

That means you get a bayonet in the arse.

I was about to awnser you with intelligent points but since you can't do that I won't respond.

I would like this thread to not contain any Chrétien's rhetoric and be as polite as it can. If you can't do that, please don't post. I didn't came here to get flamed or to waste my time with people that can't think reasonably.

Thanks.

 

[PoisonPete2]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

I think it's more in the 250 M$...
Cut the string before pulling the plug? You mean like get our tax back in here before seperation? I agree.quote]

Answer - no, I mean understanding the vested interests of the power brokers in the province and identifying them long before the vote. By 'outing' them, you can isolate them, reduce their impact, and actually use them as a rallying point to sway popular opinion

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

I agree it's "your decision", but remember that "you" includes the native population. And the non-Francophones. And the immigrants.

But what the hell; the modern way of thinking is so self centered, go ahead. I can't wait until Newfoundland cuts the wires to Hydro Quebec, and the rest of us tell you to pay for all the federal land and buildings left behind.

If you truly want to leave this great country, I will miss you, but after a while you get tired of the whiny shit.

1) YOUR INCLUDES EVERYBODY IN QUEBEC. QUEBEC IS AN INCLUSIVE SOCIETY. The benefits of Québec's sovereignty will benefit everybody living in the new country, no matter who they are.

2) I doubt that it will never happen, and if it was to happen, it would just push us to accelerate the adoption of our new energy form, wind. Which I don't have any problem with.

3) Miss us? I think we aint be moving to far so you'll be welcome here whenever you want, like always.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

I think it's more in the 250 M$...
Cut the string before pulling the plug? You mean like get our tax back in here before seperation? I agree.quote]

Answer - no, I mean understanding the vested interests of the power brokers in the province and identifying them long before the vote. By 'outing' them, you can isolate them, reduce their impact, and actually use them as a rallying point to sway popular opinion

I'm not really sure I get your point, but I think we are pretty sure about the way we will prevent things that happened in 1995. With the help of "outsider" and international community, and by strict contribution rules. But something is sure, a fight between Canada (goliath) and Québec (david) will never be fair. As a sovereignist, I assume my disadvantage.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

I agree it's "your decision", but remember that "you" includes the native population. And the non-Francophones. And the immigrants.

But what the hell; the modern way of thinking is so self centered, go ahead. I can't wait until Newfoundland cuts the wires to Hydro Quebec, and the rest of us tell you to pay for all the federal land and buildings left behind.

If you truly want to leave this great country, I will miss you, but after a while you get tired of the whiny shit.

1) YOUR INCLUDES EVERYBODY IN QUEBEC. QUEBEC IS AN INCLUSIVE SOCIETY. The benefits of Québec's sovereignty will benefit everybody living in the new country, no matter who they are.

2) I doubt that it will never happen, and if it was to happen, it would just push us to accelerate the adoption of our new energy form, wind. Which I don't have any problem with.

3) Miss us? I think we aint be moving to far so you'll be welcome here whenever you want, like always.

I'd like to see a fiscal and/or economic plan that doesn't involve soveriegnty-association. I'd like to see future global trade plans and how Quebec plans to include themselves and/or negotiate their way into NAFTA. Seriously, I have a term paper to start working on.

 

[the caracal kid]

i see the desire for separation a statement on the failure of canada to generate a strong "canadian symbolism". The regions identify more with themselves than with "canada as a whole". Quebec has a very strong sense of self, and if it feels it is impeded by the rest of canada, then it is up to quebec to decide its own fate. While separation is complicated (it always is), sometimes it is the best option (i am not saying it is or is not).

However, on taxes: it should be noted quebec takes in more from canada than it pays out to the rest of canada. So if your concern is "keeping your money to yourself", you should also consider that the 100% of tax dollars kept is less than the tax dollars you currently enjoy.

 

[#juan]

Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois

Ultimately, Quebec will follow the rules. I'm sure the people in the Montreal area don't want to separate and if they don't want to go, they don't have to. I would say that around fifty percent will say no. That is a big problem in itself . Besides 50 % + 1 is not a mandate to beak up the country.

 

[TenPenny]

I would be very surprised if an independent Quebec could get grandfathered into NAFTA; I think all present parties would be happy to open up NAFTA for renegotiation, so they'd love this opportunity.....

I'm glad that I'd be welcome in an independent Quebec; it's not always the case now.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

I agree it's "your decision", but remember that "you" includes the native population. And the non-Francophones. And the immigrants.

But what the hell; the modern way of thinking is so self centered, go ahead. I can't wait until Newfoundland cuts the wires to Hydro Quebec, and the rest of us tell you to pay for all the federal land and buildings left behind.

If you truly want to leave this great country, I will miss you, but after a while you get tired of the whiny shit.

1) YOUR INCLUDES EVERYBODY IN QUEBEC. QUEBEC IS AN INCLUSIVE SOCIETY. The benefits of Québec's sovereignty will benefit everybody living in the new country, no matter who they are.

2) I doubt that it will never happen, and if it was to happen, it would just push us to accelerate the adoption of our new energy form, wind. Which I don't have any problem with.

3) Miss us? I think we aint be moving to far so you'll be welcome here whenever you want, like always.

I'd like to see a fiscal and/or economic plan that doesn't involve soveriegnty-association. I'd like to see future global trade plans and how Quebec plans to include themselves and/or negotiate their way into NAFTA. Seriously, I have a term paper to start working on.

I don't think those kind of things are availaible right now, because we are still a couple of years from year 1 of our country. Be patient, it will come.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

[
I don't think those kind of things are availaible right now, because we are still a couple of years from year 1 of our country. Be patient, it will come.

I find that almost laughable considering economic policy is centeral to a county's survival. That and the fact that this "issue" is so old, the PQ et al have had decades to come up with a sellable plan.

 

[the caracal kid]

details cloud the impact of the emotional cry of nationalism.

 

[cub1c]

Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois

Ultimately, Quebec will follow the rules. I'm sure the people in the Montreal area don't want to separate and if they don't want to go, they don't have to. I would say that around fifty will say no. That is a big problem in itself . Besides 50 % + 1 is not a mandate to beak up the country.

Lets clear something, we aren't going anywhere.

How can someone from BC know about Montréal desires?
I live here, and I can tell you that it's always the same sectors that are federalists: rich-anglophones sectors. I would say that Montréal's desire for separation follows the province with numbers, 60%.

Well it was 50%+1 to enter the country, I don't see why it should be different to get out. But put that aside, I really don't find it democratic to have the "No" side that can win with 50% + 1 and have the "Yes" with 50% + 10. I really don't call that democracy.

Also, lets say 50% says yes and 50% says no. Don't you agree with me that those who voted "Yes" are confident about their choice since those who are afraid, or simply not sure vote "No"?

 

[PoisonPete2]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

I'm not really sure I get your point, but I think we are pretty sure about the way we will prevent things that happened in 1995. With the help of "outsider" and international community, and by strict contribution rules. But something is sure, a fight between Canada (goliath) and Québec (david) will never be fair. As a sovereignist, I assume my disadvantage.

Answer - my point is that your movement was defeated last time because of very influencial people inside Quebec whose loyalties were for sale. No 'strict contribution rules' are going to prevent it. The fact that you're "not really sure I get your point" speaks volumes of a lack of preparedness or awareness of the real obstacles to be faced.