Canadian Opposition Tries to Force Early Election

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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Martin's being a fraidy cat ... and it's all over the international news ...

Three polls published over the weekend gave the Liberals a lead of 3 to 6 percentage points over the Conservatives.

Read on ...

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsA...0892_RTRUKOC_0_US-POLITICS.xml&archived=False


Reuters:

Canada opposition tries to force early election
Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:59 PM ET

By Randall Palmer
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's three opposition parties threatened on Sunday to bring down the minority Liberal government this month if Prime Minister Paul Martin did not agree to their demands for a February election.

But Martin's team dismissed their demand as insincere and dared them to go ahead and topple the government and accept the consequences of an election campaign spanning the Christmas season.

"If the opposition wish to force an earlier election, that is their choice. They can bring forward a motion of non-confidence. They will win that vote and there will be a Christmas election," a Martin aide said.

"This is not a sincere gesture on the part of the opposition. It's a game of hot potato where they attempt to frantically hand off responsibility for forcing a Christmas election."

The leaders of the opposition parties overcame past squabbles and met on Sunday afternoon, coming up with a strategy of handing an ultimatum to Martin -- under heavy fire over a government corruption scandal.

"I don't believe this government has the moral authority to govern," said Conservative leader Stephen Harper, who hopes to end 12 years of Liberal rule and replace Martin as prime minister.

The plan is to debate an opposition motion either on Tuesday or Thursday calling for the government to dissolve Parliament in January and set a February election date.

They demanded that Martin make a solemn commitment to meet their demand, or else face an imminent formal confidence motion in Parliament.

If all three parties backed that motion, the Liberals would be defeated and there would be an election in January.

The rapid developments followed a change in heart by New Democratic Party leader Jack Layton, who said last Monday he would no longer be able to support the government in light of an inquiry that concluded Liberals had engaged in an elaborate kickback scheme.

Martin had already pledged to hold an election in April, once the inquiry presented final recommendations on how to avoid similar wrongdoing in future.

The Martin aide said that if the government were brought down, it would mean killing various government measures including energy rebates for poor Canadians.

Layton said it was the first time in history the prime minister had been asked to set an election date. The threat of a non-confidence motion was designed to force him to agree.

The opposition parties are concerned that if an election is delayed until April, public anger over the scandal will have dissipated.

Three polls published over the weekend gave the Liberals a lead of 3 to 6 percentage points over the Conservatives, who have not held federal office since 1993.

If the poll results held through the election, the Liberals would likely form the government again but fail to regain their majority in Parliament.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
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RE: Canadian Opposition T

Whoopey doo. The libs will still win a miniority. By the time we get to an election the Libs as usual will be further ahead than they are now. The one thing about the grits is they know how to win elections.
 

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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Re: RE: Canadian Opposition T

no1important said:
Whoopey doo. The libs will still win a miniority. By the time we get to an election the Libs as usual will be further ahead than they are now. The one thing about the grits is they know how to win elections.

If the opposition does indeed force an early election this year, which is very likely, I hope folks will vote for the party they really identify with, no1. Example, NDP'ers should stick with their heart and vote NDP.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Canadian Opposition T

Nascar_James said:
no1important said:
Whoopey doo. The libs will still win a miniority. By the time we get to an election the Libs as usual will be further ahead than they are now. The one thing about the grits is they know how to win elections.

If the opposition does indeed force an early election this year, which is very likely, I hope folks will vote for the party they really identify with, no1. Example, NDP'ers should stick with their heart and vote NDP.

still trying to TELL US what to do and how to do it , are ya??? Concern yourself with your own backyard .... :roll: sheesh.. Our politics do not affect the US to the same degree that the US politics affect Canada and the world.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
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still trying to TELL US what to do and how to do it , are ya??? Concern yourself with your own backyard ....

:cry: Let's not forget how many times we (as in most of us) said that Bush should be voted out, or if we were americans..... Either way I'm sure 2 cents from anyone shouldn't hurt.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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Re: RE: Canadian Opposition T

Ocean Breeze said:
Nascar_James said:
no1important said:
Whoopey doo. The libs will still win a miniority. By the time we get to an election the Libs as usual will be further ahead than they are now. The one thing about the grits is they know how to win elections.

If the opposition does indeed force an early election this year, which is very likely, I hope folks will vote for the party they really identify with, no1. Example, NDP'ers should stick with their heart and vote NDP.

still trying to TELL US what to do and how to do it , are ya??? Concern yourself with your own backyard .... :roll: sheesh.. Our politics do not affect the US to the same degree that the US politics affect Canada and the world.

Well, it appears Canadians are concerning themselves with US politics (and to a great deal I might say), so I'm merely returning the favor and concerning myself with Canadian politics, Ocean.

You don't have to thank me ... glad to be of service.

Actually, judging by the threads on this forum, it seems Canadians are more preoccupied with US politics than Canadian politics as of late. Unusual....
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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Jo Canadian said:
still trying to TELL US what to do and how to do it , are ya??? Concern yourself with your own backyard ....

:cry: Let's not forget how many times we (as in most of us) said that Bush should be voted out, or if we were americans..... Either way I'm sure 2 cents from anyone shouldn't hurt.

Good point, Jo. Politics on either side of the border affects both countries to a great extent.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Jo Canadian said:
still trying to TELL US what to do and how to do it , are ya??? Concern yourself with your own backyard ....

:cry: Let's not forget how many times we (as in most of us) said that Bush should be voted out, or if we were americans..... Either way I'm sure 2 cents from anyone shouldn't hurt.


this is why I added the fact that Ca politics does not affect the US the way the US politics affects us here and the world. Was not only Ca that would have wanted to see bush out......but most of the rest of the world. Remember ??? Seems the whole world is involved in the US "elections " now... and that is the US own doing.

but it is more the ongoing principle of the US telling others what to do .......as opposed to suggesting in a mature , intelligent manner.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Actually, judging by the threads on this forum, it seems Canadians are more preoccupied with US politics than Canadian politics as of late. Unusual....


dang it........the whole world is "preoccupied with US politics as of late.........and justifiably so. We just don't have many members from overseas here to demonstrate the degree of "interest" they have. More international members would add a great deal to this forum.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Nascar_James said:
Ocean Breeze said:
More international members would add a great deal to this forum.

Ahemmm ... of course. That's why you have us Americans on this forum.

well........permit me to draw you a verbal diagram........I meant from Europe and Asia .....

..........would really like to see some people from Iraq on here too. I have seen some forums with Iraqi input...... quite an eye opener.
 

yballa09

Electoral Member
Sep 8, 2005
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There has always been a great deal of interest by the international community towards the USA, ever since they became a world power. Their current situation doesnt change that. Yes, people are much mroe vocal about it now, but lots of that has to do with globalization and easy access to media sources, internet, etc. I mean, the war in Iraq isnt the first time some of the international community have disagreed with the US.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Martin's being a fraidy cat ... and it's all over the international news ...

Three polls published over the weekend gave the Liberals a lead of 3 to 6 percentage points over the Conservatives.

The problem with you trying to talk Canadian politics is that you don't really understand it, James. Have you looked at the seat projections based on the latest polls? They have the Conservatives losing four seats. Actually, they lose a lot more than that, but gain them back in other places.

You know who's being the "fraidy (sic) cat" here? It's Harper. He knows he hasn't got the numbers and he knows that the Liberals will pick up over time. Harper stands to lose more than 4 seats in total.

Layton stands to gain as many as 18 seats right now and stands to lose only 1. He too knows that those numbers likely won't hold over the course of an election though. Today's projections say 37 total seats, but by election day it will stand somewhere between 25 and 30. That's still a pretty large gain, certainly better than what the Conservatives stand to lose.

The BQ will pick up a couple and that's the only thing that's unlikely to change.

The Liberals stand to lose some, but they would still be a minority government by a long shot. The Liberals spent all weekend basically challenging the opposition to bring them down. They want an election over x-mas because they know they will win and they know that election fatigue will set in the next time the Conservatives and Bloq bring down the government. Martin can't call an election until after the final Gomery Report though. That's the promise he made and if he breaks it he will crucified.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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I fail to see what possible advantage

forcing an early election can be for the opposition parties. I am particularly dissappointed in Layton. If Layton is seen as the instigator of the early election, the people will make him pay. The conservatives have been behind in almost all the polls and can't possibly win a majority with Harper at the helm. The Bloc are pretty cocky these days because the polls suggest that the bloc would gain a few seats if an election were forced now.

THe irony is that a federal election costs at least a couple hundred million or more, which turns out to be very close to the final costs of the sponsership scandal and we will have changed very little in the political geography of the country. It will still probably give us a minority government that will be forced into yet another election in two years or less with yet another sponsership scandal sized bill that the taxpayers will foot yet again. THere are minority governments all over the world that seem to be able to govern without forcing an election every two years. Forcing an early election is a scandal every bit as bad as the sponsership mess and it will achieve nothing.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Layton was kind of in a position where he didn't have much choice, Juan. The Liberals weren't willing to protect healthcare and Broadbent's anti-corruption plan had just been rolled out.

The healthcare thing was kind of dictated by what went on in the House. Layton would ask Martin a question on healthcare and Dosanj would answer the question by saying that the Liberals and NDP were the same on healthcare (not true), then use the question to go after Harper. That left the NDP having to differentiate themselves from the Liberals on the issue, which was accomplished by having Martin turn down Layton's offer.

Politically, I think Layton would have done better to try to force the Liberals to adopt the Broadbent plan rather than going to them with healthcare. He could have made the offer in the press and the Liberals would have had to turn it down in full view. It's a much easier issue for most people to grasp. The Conservatives and the BQ would have had to back the NDP, at least in spirit, or look like hypocrites.

The NDP could then have used their opposition day to introduce Broadbent's plan as a bill and try to get it passed. Anybody who voted against the bill would have had to say why, Layton wouldn't have been trying to swing a deal with Martin, and the Conservative plan would have been shown to be flawed.

Hindsight may be 20/20, but given the press that Gomery is getting, the rhetoric coming from the right, and the complexity of healthcare issues vs the relative simplicity of the Broadbent plan, I think that would have been a better move.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
I notice that the media and the various parties seem to want to avoid a preChristmas election. You know why? For their own convenience. As a typical voter, it couldn't make any difference to me; the only date I need to worry about is the day I need to go to the polling station. But the candidates and reporters don't want their holidays ruined.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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I believe Layton still has choices better

than forcing an election that will change nothing but the number of Bloc seats in Quebec. There will still be a minority government and the NDP will probably have fewer seats than they do now.

I suppose waiting for the rest of the Gomery report might put the Liberals in little better position but that is just a wild guess. I think the only thing that will bring about significant change, is for the Conservatives to find themselves another leader and a more transparent platform.

THe Liberals would be crazy to give in to this blackmail. THey have already said when they will call an election. We know the electorate always punishes those who force an early election, and nobody wants an election over the holidays.
 

manda

Council Member
Jul 3, 2005
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Especially when the fool pushing for the election is an unliked Stephan Harper....Yeah, like his popularity will really improve because of this...arrgh, the man is such an idiot. I want to know who ties his shoes and allows him into the public eye