Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to ignite.

[Durgan]

Shootings, and illegal recreational drugs, and sub-social living conditions. This all looks a bit like the problems in France today.
Durgan.
Quotes below from various sources.

Drugs play a large part in gun violence.The landscape has shifted dramatically, in large part because of the entrenched drug trade.We've got great gun laws but the real problem is not a gun problem, it's a gang controlled drug problem.Gangs and drugs go together.

The recent violence is driven by gangs and the drugs they traffic in -- a belief the Toronto police force largely endorses.

The recent violence in Toronto does point to a larger problem that plagues many cities: when neighbourhoods are neglected, when pockets of a city are allowed to fall behind, they crack.

The recent gun violence has occurred mostly in poor neighbourhoods. These densely-populated areas are filled with low-income housing, inadequate job opportunities and social programs, and residents who feel alienated from the rest of the city.

The most notorious of these neighbourhoods is Jane-Finch, located in Toronto’s northwest corner. Twenty-one people have been shot there this year.
Ironically, Jane-Finch didn’t become poor over time – it was built that way. In the 1960s city planners decided to build a community for Toronto’s “higher need population,” so a series of low-income, publicly-subsidized houses were put up in the city’s suburbs.

The trouble is, adequate social programs, such as educational assistance, job training and recreational activities, were never developed to meet the needs of these neighbourhoods, so they haven’t been able to break their cycle of poverty.

This cycle of poverty hits the black community the hardest. Indeed, much of the violence over the past month has involved young, black men. Few people in the city seem willing to discuss the issue of race and crime – a touchy subject in Toronto.

Gun violence in Toronto means handguns, which have been strictly and effectively controlled in Canada for over 80 years.

Since July 1, more than 40 shootings have taken place in public places, most commonly in or around low-income housing projects.

As expected, these past eruptions triggered calls for a task force, a public inquiry, stiffer sentences, specialized gun courts, more cops, more prosecutors and more power. This broken record is being played again by our politicians.

Comments taken at randon from articles off the internet.
Durgan.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Toronto's shame- a po

It's silly isn't it? We know the two things that most drive violence are poverty and drug crime and those issues have become so intertwined that we cannot tell them apart anymore. We do little or nothing to solve the poverty issue and we make sure that drugs are profitable for criminals through prohibitions that were originally based on corporatism and racism. It is still racism and corporatism that keeps those prohibitions alive today to a large extent.

 

[Twila]

RE: Toronto's shame- a po

Has there ever been a society without poor? Is it possible to have a society that has no poor without falling into communism?

 

[Durgan]

Re: RE: Toronto's shame- a po

Has there ever been a society without poor? Is it possible to have a society that has no poor without falling into communism?

I must admit the problem has always been of interest to me, with no satisfactory answer.

I suspect poverty is a corollary of capitalism. From my observations a successful capitalistic system requires pools of poor or poorly paid to grease the wheels. (But, never in the history of man has so much been produced for so many).

Years ago I was told the poor will always be with us, just make sure your aren't one of them.

The difference between the poor and the rich is that the poor think of money all the time. Oscar Wilde.

Durgan.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Toronto's shame- a po

..... prohibitions that were originally based on corporatism and racism. It is still racism and corporatism that keeps those prohibitions alive today to a large extent.

I have to ask....how is the prohibition on cocaine part of racism and corporatism?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Toronto's shame- a po

The drug industry was growing and they were seeking control over medicines. Cocaine really just caught up in the fray though. It had not yet become popular for recreational

Opium (and its extracts) and marijuana were the major players because of racism (Mexicans and black people were the major consumers of pot for recreational use, Chinese immigrants for opium) and their popularity in patent medicines. Cocaine, and raw coca, had some minor significance because of American hegemony in South America, but weren't a major concern except for their growing popularity in patent medicines.

Peyote cults were likely a more major driver than recreational cocaine use, especially in the United States, and if you look at the things being said about the effects of marijuana at the time, they bear more resemblance to the effects of peyote than of pot.

Marijuana was demonised primarly because of the competition that hemp presented to the cotton and oil industries.

You should really look into the history of drug prohibitions, Jay. It's always the ruling class banning something the lower classes use. The British banned gin, but not whiskey because the poor drank gin and the people making the rules drank whiskey.

The British also launched the first drug war (against China) to keep the opium flowing because it was popular with their upper classes at the time. If it had been the lower classes using it, they would have sought to stop the flow of opium.

The Republicans banned alcohol in the US because it was overwhelmingly Democrats who admitted to drinking. Of course Republicans drank too, they just didn't talk about it in public, so they were at the mercy of pressure groups to ban it. We all saw how successfully that turned out...at least for criminals.

We're seeing something very similar now. Rich people don't admit to using drugs, but they do. Rock cocaine (more popular with poor, black people) carries a higher mandatory sentance in the US than an equal amount of powdered cocaine (popular among the moneyed elite), although they are the same drug.

Methamphetamine is illegal and getting more illegal all the time, but prescriptions for amphetamines are very popular among the rich. All you need to do is tell your doctor that you feel tired and rundown.

Ever wonder why rich people check into rehab for addictions to prescription drugs and poor people go to prison for buying those same drugs on the street, Jay? Ever wonder why addiction wasn't such a huge problem when you could buy laudenaum over the counter and go have a party? The big difference is the prohibition.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Toronto's shame- a po

The drug industry was growing and they were seeking control over medicines. Cocaine really just caught up in the fray though. It had not yet become popular for recreational

Opium (and its extracts) and marijuana were the major players because of racism (Mexicans and black people were the major consumers of pot for recreational use, Chinese immigrants for opium) and their popularity in patent medicines. Cocaine, and raw coca, had some minor significance because of American hegemony in South America, but weren't a major concern except for their growing popularity in patent medicines.

Peyote cults were likely a more major driver than recreational cocaine use, especially in the United States, and if you look at the things being said about the effects of marijuana at the time, they bear more resemblance to the effects of peyote than of pot.

Marijuana was demonised primarly because of the competition that hemp presented to the cotton and oil industries.

You should really look into the history of drug prohibitions, Jay. It's always the ruling class banning something the lower classes use. The British banned gin, but not whiskey because the poor drank gin and the people making the rules drank whiskey.

The British also launched the first drug war (against China) to keep the opium flowing because it was popular with their upper classes at the time. If it had been the lower classes using it, they would have sought to stop the flow of opium.

The Republicans banned alcohol in the US because it was overwhelmingly Democrats who admitted to drinking. Of course Republicans drank too, they just didn't talk about it in public, so they were at the mercy of pressure groups to ban it. We all saw how successfully that turned out...at least for criminals.

We're seeing something very similar now. Rich people don't admit to using drugs, but they do. Rock cocaine (more popular with poor, black people) carries a higher mandatory sentance in the US than an equal amount of powdered cocaine (popular among the moneyed elite), although they are the same drug.

Methamphetamine is illegal and getting more illegal all the time, but prescriptions for amphetamines are very popular among the rich. All you need to do is tell your doctor that you feel tired and rundown.

Ever wonder why rich people check into rehab for addictions to prescription drugs and poor people go to prison for buying those same drugs on the street, Jay? Ever wonder why addiction wasn't such a huge problem when you could buy laudenaum over the counter and go have a party? The big difference is the prohibition.

 

[Jay]

RE: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to igni

Thanks for the explanation.


I found the drunken Democrats thing pretty funny though...

And the other thing is Whiskey was a poor Scott invention wasn't it?

Still, I get your drift here.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Toronto's shame- a po

Keep in mind that the Republicans weren't any more sober, just more hypocritical about it.

In the case of England, who invented and made the whisky wasn't important. Who drank it was. There were also other kinds of booze being imported from Europe. Those were also too expensive for the lower classes.

 

[annabattler]

RE: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to igni

While it is likely true that the poor will always be with us, that doesn't mean that we should just accept poverty.
A wealthy society needs to keep its eye on those less fortunate,must determine ways to combat poverty,promote education and give a "hand-up" to those who need it.
I've always been a great believer of prevention...and it seems to me that the schools(particularly those in primary school) are just the right target audience.
Infuse the schools with "helping" professionals,tutoring support,activities,sports programmes,family events,community events,etc.
That,of course,would mean that various ministries(education,health,social services)would have to work TOGETHER,with one common goal...and therein lies a major part of the problem...individual ministries guard their funding turf with fierceness, and do not have the more common good in mind.

 

[annabattler]

RE: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to igni

While it is likely true that the poor will always be with us, that doesn't mean that we should just accept poverty.
A wealthy society needs to keep its eye on those less fortunate,must determine ways to combat poverty,promote education and give a "hand-up" to those who need it.
I've always been a great believer of prevention...and it seems to me that the schools(particularly those in primary school) are just the right target audience.
Infuse the schools with "helping" professionals,tutoring support,activities,sports programmes,family events,community events,etc.
That,of course,would mean that various ministries(education,health,social services)would have to work TOGETHER,with one common goal...and therein lies a major part of the problem...individual ministries guard their funding turf with fierceness, and do not have the more common good in mind.

 

[annabattler]

RE: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to igni

While it is likely true that the poor will always be with us, that doesn't mean that we should just accept poverty.
A wealthy society needs to keep its eye on those less fortunate,must determine ways to combat poverty,promote education and give a "hand-up" to those who need it.
I've always been a great believer of prevention...and it seems to me that the schools(particularly those in primary school) are just the right target audience.
Infuse the schools with "helping" professionals,tutoring support,activities,sports programmes,family events,community events,etc.
That,of course,would mean that various ministries(education,health,social services)would have to work TOGETHER,with one common goal...and therein lies a major part of the problem...individual ministries guard their funding turf with fierceness, and do not have the more common good in mind.

 

[annabattler]

RE: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to igni

While it is likely true that the poor will always be with us, that doesn't mean that we should just accept poverty.
A wealthy society needs to keep its eye on those less fortunate,must determine ways to combat poverty,promote education and give a "hand-up" to those who need it.
I've always been a great believer of prevention...and it seems to me that the schools(particularly those in primary school) are just the right target audience.
Infuse the schools with "helping" professionals,tutoring support,activities,sports programmes,family events,community events,etc.
That,of course,would mean that various ministries(education,health,social services)would have to work TOGETHER,with one common goal...and therein lies a major part of the problem...individual ministries guard their funding turf with fierceness, and do not have the more common good in mind.

 

[annabattler]

RE: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to igni

While it is likely true that the poor will always be with us, that doesn't mean that we should just accept poverty.
A wealthy society needs to keep its eye on those less fortunate,must determine ways to combat poverty,promote education and give a "hand-up" to those who need it.
I've always been a great believer of prevention...and it seems to me that the schools(particularly those in primary school) are just the right target audience.
Infuse the schools with "helping" professionals,tutoring support,activities,sports programmes,family events,community events,etc.
That,of course,would mean that various ministries(education,health,social services)would have to work TOGETHER,with one common goal...and therein lies a major part of the problem...individual ministries guard their funding turf with fierceness, and do not have the more common good in mind.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Toronto's shame- a po

There will always be poverty to some extent. The difference is that so many of our policies act to keep people poor while the rich live in obscene luxury. In any Canadian city we have people going hungry while others live in opulence.

Even while we all realise that's going on, we institute policies that do nothing to help the poor, often hurt them, while giving even more advantage to those who are extremely wealthy.

We've been following the false prophets of trickle down economics for a quarter of a century now. There are more poor getting trickled on than ever before. Clearly the model we are using has failed, so why do we keep following it?

 

[Jay]

RE: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to igni

It is amazing we have any tax base at all with all these poor people around....

 

[Durgan]

Re: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to igni

It appears the shooting problem in Toronto is due to reprisals by gangs against those who don't follow the rules when dealing in illegal drugs.

The area for the affluent to purchase illegal drugs is located in the low income areas of Toronto,Jane/ Finch and some other areas. After all the purchasers should not have to travel too far to pick up their supply.

The retail marketing is in the poorer areas, but the buyers are the more affluent who don't live in the area. Supplying the illegal drugs is a form of employment for these people, but the buyers are from outside the area. A large portion of the 7 billion dollar drug industry has to be coming from the affluent who use illegal drugs.

Shootings are mostly amongst the black (Jamaican) population, but the Vietnamese are also involved, periodically the "home" invasions amongst this group makes the news.

There are three issues, poverty (lower income group), illegal drugs, gun violence to enforce the drug rules. For protection the drug dealers form gangs.

Authorities concentrate on the gun issue, because that upsets the affluent group, certainly much more than poverty with all its social implications.

Centralized public housing is and always has been a recipe for major problems in the future. There are a lot of fine people in those areas who simply don't not have the resources to get out. It is more of a socially and financially deprived problem than anything else.

Lock the "criminals' up and throw away the key is the reaction so far. The problems will still breed more criminals,but it can be kept contained, and we the affluent can continue with our lives without being disturbed about shootings in Toronto.

Paris is still burning! Solutions anybody?

Durgan.

 

[Durgan]

Re: RE: Toronto's shame- a powder key waiting for a fuse to

It is amazing we have any tax base at all with all these poor people around....

It is probably more indicative of the disparity between the wealthy and the not so wealthy.

Durgan.