Cannabis laws in Limbo - Medical or Recreational

[Karlin]

Cannabis laws in Canada are still undefined. I wish we would debate and legistlate this instead of those 'dead issues' that the conservatives keep bringing up.

NEWS - June 28 2005
"the Rhode Island legislature approved the use of medical marijuana Tuesday night" ;
"Although the governor has vowed to veto the legislation, the Senate and House approved it by large enough margins to override him."
K- so it looks like a done deal in Rhoach Island, er Rhode Island.
The usual suspects were against the new law, and I'll bet you they were supported by the pharmaceutical industry, which has the most to lose by legalising medical marijuana.
Outlaw biker gangs stand to lose a lot with recreational legalisation.


Here in Canada, it seems that some of the debate is all about skirting the issue, like "decriminalise it, but increase the trafficing enforcement efforts". That won't get us anywhere different than we are now - not many people are smoking/not smoking it because its a criminal offence and not a mere statuatory law. Who cares except some young wanna-be-lawyers [and med students, cops, etc.] who can't get into law school because they had a hash pipe under the seat of their car in 1976? { i know one like that]

RECREATIONAL OR MEDICAL?
I see a need to separate it into two categories, recreational and medical, and then legistlate on them separately.

That way we get a clear idea of whats at stake, without getting the medical issues hung up with the recreational use debate.

For the medical issue, here is a link with Pro's and Con's:
http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/

We have to look beyond our first impulses on this issue, as we have been subjected to a century of propaganda against pot.
At first, it seemed to me that medical use arguements were just phoney, being used by the anti-prohibition side, but were not really genuine.
Now I see that there is a long history of medical uses, as well as current testimony that seems real enough, and finally my personal discovery that marijuana is effective for me for migraines, muscle cramps, low back pain, anxiety, appetite, insomnia, and other symptoms of a "syndrome" illness I have had for many years. There is one pharmaceutical drug I have to take, and marijuana mitigates the side-effects of that too.

So, I believe marijuana has real, genuine, medical applications that rival the effectiveness of available pills, without the dangerous side-effects they may have.

And its not just that "wow, I am stoned so I don't mind the pain as much", no, its a very real effect, a twitching muscle stops twitching for eg., or the occular pressure actually drops to 1.4 atm.[glaucoma].
Sometimes cannabis has the quality that "you can get whatever you want from it", like a centrally-mediated analgesiac. This brings it into the spooky realm a bit, but it does work well enough that way. In a lot of cases, you have to ask of it, not demand something
from it, and it provides.

The wide array of medical uses make cannabis a threat to pharmaceutical profits. Not "patentable", and the fact that we can grow it ourselves if need be, makes cannabis as a product in commercial markets unattractive to the pharmaceutical corporations who could otherwise sell patented, monpolised products [i.e."pills"] for the various ailments. So they back the NO side in ending proghibition. Socially Responsible Corporate Culture isn't going to come from the pharm-boys anytime soon!!!

But it remains a heckuva cash cow to anyone growing selling or taxing it. Everyone seems to agree we are missing a good thing by not taxing marijuana.

Laws in Limbo make for an open field that is unregulated. Lets get on with it. Personally, I would vote for both recreational and medical validity.



History of Cannabis in Medicine:
http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/pop/history.htm



History of the Marijuana Debate in Canada:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/crime/marijuana-decriminalization/history-debate.html

 

[OakServe]

Wow well i personally never read a post that long in it's entirety.

However, my opinion on "cannabis" is that it is at the very least, no more harmful than alchohol, and should be treated generally the same. There is no science to indicate it is more harmful than alchohol.

 

[PoisonPete2]

There is no Political will to tend to this matter. The Senate got it right. Legalize it and appologize to the 660,000 Canadians stigmatized by a bad law. But the Senate's lead was not followed by the Lower House, despite Martin's pre-election bow toward liberalization of the laws. Some 'activist' Courts struck down Laws that prevented pot being used medically. The government produced confidential forms under the Ministry of Health to allow medical use. It has been found that the forms are routinely shared with the RCMP. And now with peer pressure, very few MDs would support application. Certainly not away from our 'cultural' centres. Perhaps the only way to change the laws would be to choke the Courts with people turning themselves in on masse. (or was that turning themselve on in masse). This country is full of hypocrites. Reminds me of Mrs. Trudeau. Those in power are insulated from the negative effects of power.

 

[Karlin]

http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/101/106061.htm

This just in!!
Now they find it has anti-inflammation abilities.

Add that to the list and maybe the political will will come around.

Do you think that Jack Layton could push the bricks around and create some openings to get it back into parliament?

Sorry for the long posts, I do that a lot eh. Its a type of insanity, forgive me. I don't read posts that long very often myself!!! LOL.
....how does it go? "Seriously How do I stop yakkin'

so here we go... press the submit button... submit, submit Karlin damnit submit, just press the button ... man,....do it

 

[PoisonPete2]

Alzheimer sufferers mostly live on the margin of society. Around them will not form any movement to ease their situation, be it stem cell research, liberalization of pot laws or sufficient social support. Jack Layton thinks he smells a chance at power. I would think that he would not want to attract attention to himself on this issue any more than a nod and a wink. Could be wrong though. What do you say Jack? You on the side of individual freedoms or State control?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Cannabis laws in Limb

The NDP, including Jack Layton have been pushing for lieralisation of pot laws for a very long time, Pete. They've been careful about it, and not everybody is onside, but they are the party that champions individual freedoms in this country.

The Alzheimer's thing could help to turn things around. So can marijuana's effects on glaucoma, arthritis, etc. These are diseases of the aged and the biggest demographic the world has ever seen is getting old.

Don't worry about the length of you posts, Karlin. If people don't want to read that much, it's their problem.

 

[Karlin]

Re: Cannabis laws - the War on Drugs

Thanks for the encouragement Rev, I will keep blathering extensively!

There is a deeper and more sinister element in the prohibition of Cannabis than just medical uses being ignored, which is pretty bad in in itself, being akin to torture in that suffering is needlessly endured due to a propietary law.

Canada is being used in the American-led War on Drugs.

If WE opted out and began to harvest prosperity from Cannabis/Hemp, it would throw a monkey-wrench into their propaganda and reduce the domination of the oil economy. That, and the offence of the Christian Fundies, are the main reasons that Canada has not rescinded prohibition against the world's most usefull plant.

As part of the War on Drugs, Cannabis is held hostage to the profiteering of USA's “Prison-Industrial Complex” , that alliance between the pharmaceutical corporations and prison system [privatised in the USA]. That sounds whacky, but only because we have been brainwashed to think so. They talk of being 'tough on crime', but actually they are only being tough on people who choose non-pharmaceuticals as their drug of choice,even though it is often a better choice.
It has become progressively more serious to have been caught with drugs than to kill someone:
"between 1980 and 1992 the average maximum sentence in federal courts declined for violent crimes (from 125 months to 88 months) and almost doubled for drug offenses (from 47 months to 82 months)."

This heavily-slanted trend towards jailing pot users [and opiates that are not prescribed] and letting violent offenders go is about protecting the pharmaceuticals , not protecting society.


http://www.gnn.tv/articles/1500/The_Vice_Lords_of_the_Replacement_Economies

That link has a good write-up on this situation in America.

Canada is not as brutal as the USA is at putting pot users in prison, but we do our part in keeping prohibition alive. And that hurts Canadians too.

The American led War on Drugs relates to Canada in that our politicians are constantly being pursuaded by Americans [with ties to the Pharmaceutical-Prison-and-Prohibition profiteering] to stop the efforts to end prohibition of cannabis-hemp.


A few more quotes from the forum on the article at the link:

"The United States government is hiding the fact that 125 years ago, and even as far back as 4000 BC, 80 percent of our economy was based on the use of CANNABIS/HEMP/MARIJUANA for paper, fiber and fuel. Ten to 20 percent of our drug economy was based on CANNABIS/HEMP/MARIJUANA medicines, 125 years ago."


"The real threat posed by legalization would be for the biggest profiteers in the world – energy companies. Yes, thats right… Oil. Cannabis legalization would create an instant competitor to these companies – a subsitute product that can be grown virtually anywhere on earth. Our dependance on fossil fuels would instantly be challenged by this amazing plant."

"If all fossil fuels and their derivatives, as well as trees for paper and construction, were banned in order to save the planet, reverse the greenhouse effect and stop deforestation; then there is only one known annually renewable natural resource that is capable of providing the overall majority of the world’s paper and textiles; meet all of the world’s transportation, industrial and home energy needs, while simultaneously reducing pollution, rebuilding the soil and cleaning the atmosphere all at the same time… and that substance is the same one that has done it before . . . CANNABIS/HEMP/MARIJUANA!"

"I can’t believe how the U.S. government, in 90 seconds in Congress, could outlaw “MARIJUANA” in 1937, the most perfect plant for the planet! They even got other countries to outlaw it, too, after the Second World War and beyond."

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Cannabis laws in Limb

The oil thing is interesting. Industrial hemp is grown in Canada. You'd have to smoke an entire field of the stuff to get a buzz, but there is a very low level of THC in it, so the US government won't let it across the border. The main lobbyists supporting that kind of dishonest protectionism are the oil industry and the cotton industry.

There have been a few attempts to build hemp processing plants here in Canada, but demand is limited so they haven't done well.

 

[no1important]

RE: Cannabis laws in Limb

Pot bill shelved until after next election

Figures. But I think as Libby Davis said amnesty should of been added to it and furthermore the law is not really being enforced out here in my neck of the woods and if this particular law came in, it would encourage RCMP to write tickets instead of leaving us law abiding citizens alone.

Plus I think the huffing and puffing by "W's" lackeys may of had something to do with it as well.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Cannabis laws in Limb

It's a bad bill. It needs amnesty built in and it needs a sunset clause that specifies that full legalisation be considered in five or ten years. It also neesd a clause specifying that we will not enforce other country's laws on Canadian soil.

 

[Cosmo]

Thanks Karlin ... I did read your posts.

For me it's an extremely simple issue. I, personally, can't smoke the stuff but wish with all my heart I could. I've seen the medicinal effects of pot and it's right up there with the miracle drug aspirin.

My partner has MS. Her pill cabinet looks like an explosion at a pharmacy. And most of those doctor prescribed (and legally sanctioned) drugs are highly addictive, chock full of nasty side effects and generally bad news. The one drug that takes the place of a handfull of those colourful pills is pot. It reduces spasms (a major problem for people with MS), relaxes her (a big deal when you're at the end of your rope from suffering the intense pain of MS for days on end) and it does reduce her overall pain level. Oddly enough, there is none of the stuff that seems to come with recreational use of pot. No munchies, no paranoia, no altered behaviour.

Here in Vic we have a most interesting group ... the Compassionate Society. You can read their stuff at:

http://www.thevics.com/index-800.html

Seeing how overloaded our criminal system is and the number of those incarcerated because of pot, it's hard to believe the government hasn't legalized it and granted amnesty just for financial reasons. Think of the taxes they could collect on the stuff! Might make up for all those damn non-smokers who've stopped paying in.

 

[bevvyd]

I was truly amazed when I saw the effects of medicinal pot. My friend suffers from tremors and after eating a green cookie he is very fluid in his movements. I couldn't believe it.

I knew there was good in the stuff.

 

[Karlin]

I've seen the medicinal effects of pot and it's right up there with the miracle drug aspirin.

My partner has MS. Her pill cabinet looks like an explosion at a pharmacy. And most of those doctor prescribed (and legally sanctioned) drugs are highly addictive, chock full of nasty side effects and generally bad news. The one drug that takes the place of a handfull of those colourful pills is pot. It reduces spasms (a major problem for people with MS), relaxes her (a big deal when you're at the end of your rope from suffering the intense pain of MS for days on end) and it does reduce her overall pain level. Oddly enough, there is none of the stuff that seems to come with recreational use of pot. No munchies, no paranoia, no altered behaviour.

Here in Vic we have a most interesting group ... the Compassionate Society. You can read their stuff at:

http://www.thevics.com/index-800.html
)

I was truly amazed when I saw the effects of medicinal pot. My friend suffers from tremors and after eating a green cookie he is very fluid in his movements. I couldn't believe it.

I knew there was good in the stuff.

Thanks for the testimonies. Its true, pot works.
I also have a Compassion Club here, I am a member.

My illness is similiar to MS, and I believe a lot of people suffer various levels of the same basic 'neurological' symptoms and causes as MS. No definate diagnosis has left me without supports at times, and it is really tough to live like this.

The good qualities of pot can be erased by the "meanness" of prohibition. Users feel paranoid due to the law, and pot's psychoactive properties play right into that paranoia.

I and so many others suffering this illness in its various forms seek the relief of pot. I labeled myself as an addict due to this behavior- another misdirect due to prohibition - many of us don't realise we are simply self-medicating in the face of inadequate medical care/diagnosis.

"They" don't want us to have a diagnosis, it might lead to lawsuits or WCB claims, etc., as well as give legitimacy to those who say toxins are at the centre of so much human suffering.[they are!].

Industry has done this to me. Corporatism is my enemy. The same people who deny global warming are doing this to me by denying the effects of toxic substances. How evil is that? And that my own brother is a CEO of a mjor oil concern, and a denyer of GW and toxicity creates a division where none should ever exist.

Remember - they create the problems and then offer the solutions - and for health they are offering us pharmaceuticals, which are themselves just another layer of problems for us to seek solutions for.... One of the solutions will not be pot if they have their way - pot does not lead to the need for further solutions, it is benign.

Karlin

 

[PoisonPete2]

my cognitive neurologist knew nothing of pot's use for reducing anxiety, mood improvement, memory enhansement or activation. She depends on big Pharma for updates and so a great boon to her patiants is lost through her ignorance and the government's intolerance.

 

[mrmom2]

Careful guys The Libs have legeslation there introducing were there going to grab growers and dealers property and they'll have to go to court and prove otherwise .Police State all the way don't do nothing about the crack and heroine problem .Evil pot dealers are the scourge of the province :x

 

[Karlin]

Ya, they are doing NOTHING about the laws for cannabis.

I am dissapointed in the JackLayton NDP who could really be stirring it up, getting some passion up in the public for reform.

We Canadians allmost all want pot removed from the criminal realm, unmistakably separated from herion and coc and meth.

Better yet would be complete medical supply/permission from the feds - should we still be paying for marijuana when we get our morphine and Neurontin for free?? Morphine and Neurontin are much more harmfull, and likey most costly to produce. Compassion Club is great, but we still have to pay the 'near-street' prices.

Plus - Recreational usage should be legal,taxed, and all Canadians should be encouraged to grow pot to help the economy out, for export to the USA.

Fed Govt. would lend poor people money to get the grow lights, and inspections carried out for safety. At first, only give licenses to poor people to let then have a chance to be prosperous.

Would it be best to have no growing pot in residential housing anymore,and instead grow it in warehouses in the light industrial areas or huge greenhouses in the rural areas?

Final product inspected and sold by the growers or in liquor stores. Taxed, price regulated and quality certified. About $100 or $200 an ounce would be about right I think, which is half-price what it is now under prohibition.{ See?>taxes are less costly than prohibition you RW taxcutters!!]


As for hemp for food and fibre [ the food is the seed, which is really good yummy stuff, best to lower arterial plaque , better than any fish oil] , this has to be grown where the THC pot is NOT, or the dopoer pot goes male. Regulations for areas where doper pot is grown to restrict hemp crops.
Also, hemp oil is perfect fuel for cars and trucks, bio-diesel. This industry could save th family farm from Monsanto too, since hemp crops replenish soils.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Let's not forget that you can harvest it 6x per season compared to traditional a crop... Great for rotation too. It's not called a weed for nothing.