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Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

canadapledge

#1Jun 25th, 2005

How do you see relation between Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism? Can you be free in independent Quebec, Alberta, BC? Would you sacrifice your political freedom for National idea of Quebec or Alberta? What those words means to you?

I am a Canadian, a free Canadian,
Free to speak without fear,
Free to worship God in my own way,
Free to stand for what I think right,
Free to oppose what I believe wrong,
Free to choose those who shall govern my country.
This heritage of freedom, I pledge to uphold,
For myself and all mankind.

This is an excerpt from the Canadian Bill of Rights
signed by John G. Diefenbaker
Prime Minister of Canada
Canada Day, July 1, 1960

If you want to add your name to our petition to return Our Pledge to Canadians, we will forward your request to The Prime Minister of Canada, the Minister of Education, the Minister of Heritage Canada, and the President of the Royal Canadian Legion. Please visit www.pledgecanada.com

canadapledge

RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 26th, 2005

Plese tell me why many people are saying that all we need is freedom of speach in Canada? Why they say that those word are not about freedom?

bluealberta

Re: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 27th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by canadapledge

How do you see relation between Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism? Can you be free in independent Quebec, Alberta, BC? Would you sacrifice your political freedom for National idea of Quebec or Alberta? What those words means to you?

I am a Canadian, a free Canadian,
Free to speak without fear,
Free to worship God in my own way,
Free to stand for what I think right,
Free to oppose what I believe wrong,
Free to choose those who shall govern my country.
This heritage of freedom, I pledge to uphold,
For myself and all mankind.

This is an excerpt from the Canadian Bill of Rights
signed by John G. Diefenbaker
Prime Minister of Canada
Canada Day, July 1, 1960

If you want to add your name to our petition to return Our Pledge to Canadians, we will forward your request to The Prime Minister of Canada, the Minister of Education, the Minister of Heritage Canada, and the President of the Royal Canadian Legion. Please visit www.pledgecanada.com

Unfortunately, some of the things Dief said are now being marginlized. For instance:

I am a Canadian, a free Canadian,

Not quite as much as it was when Dief was around

Free to speak without fear,

Read the hate crime law, or talk to Bishop Henry

Free to worship God in my own way,

Talk to Bishop Henry, and review charitable status for church thread

Free to stand for what I think right,

Except now viewpoints other than left are marginalized.

Free to oppose what I believe wrong,

Same comment

Free to choose those who shall govern my country.

In reality, only in Ontario and eastern Canada

This heritage of freedom, I pledge to uphold,
For myself and all mankind.

Vanni Fucci

Free Thinker

Re: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 27th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by bluealberta

Free to speak without fear,

Read the hate crime law, or talk to Bishop Henry

Free to worship God in my own way,

Talk to Bishop Henry, and review charitable status for church thread

Bishop Henry is a bigoted f*ck and I can't believe you're still supporting him in his homophobic crusade...

On second thought, I do believe it blue...

TenPenny

RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 27th, 2005

Didn't the Charter of Rights and Freedoms supercede Dief's Bill of Rights?

Said1

Free Thinker

Re: RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 27th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny

Didn't the Charter of Rights and Freedoms supercede Dief's Bill of Rights?

Yes.
--

Reverend Blair

RE: Canadian Bill of Righ

Jun 27th, 2005

Did you know that Tommy Douglas instituted a bill of rights for Saskatchewan when he was Premier? It came not just before Dief's bill of rights, but before the UN bill of rights.

canadapledge

Re: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 27th, 2005

Who are we as a nation? What is our National idea? What is our National Ideology? Are we groups of minorities trying to build little their little China, Italy, Israel, Russia, Somali, Ireland? Or we are part of a Great Nation, and we are proud to be Canadians

bluealberta

Re: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 27th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni Fucci

Quote: Originally Posted by bluealberta
Free to speak without fear,

Read the hate crime law, or talk to Bishop Henry

Free to worship God in my own way,

Talk to Bishop Henry, and review charitable status for church thread
Bishop Henry is a bigoted f*ck and I can't believe you're still supporting him in his homophobic crusade...

On second thought, I do believe it blue...

Freedom of religion, Vanni, you really ought to look it up. And if you are the aetheist you claim, why do you even get involved in any kind of religious discussions? They will not affect you, religion will not affect you, you will not be forced to join a religion, you will not be forced to join into any of their ceremonies. As a leader of a religion, Henry is free under the constitution to preach to his followers. You may not like the message, but that is too bad for you.

Said1

Free Thinker

#10

Re: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 27th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by bluealberta

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni Fucci
Quote: Originally Posted by bluealberta
Free to speak without fear,

Read the hate crime law, or talk to Bishop Henry

Free to worship God in my own way,

Talk to Bishop Henry, and review charitable status for church thread
Bishop Henry is a bigoted f*ck and I can't believe you're still supporting him in his homophobic crusade...

On second thought, I do believe it blue...
Freedom of religion, Vanni, you really ought to look it up. And if you are the aetheist you claim, why do you even get involved in any kind of religious discussions? They will not affect you, religion will not affect you, you will not be forced to join a religion, you will not be forced to join into any of their ceremonies. As a leader of a religion, Henry is free under the constitution to preach to his followers. You may not like the message, but that is too bad for you.

Apply the same advice to yourself. Stay out of discussions pertaining to topics that will not effect you.

Vanni Fucci

Free Thinker

#11

Re: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 27th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by bluealberta

Freedom of religion, Vanni, you really ought to look it up. And if you are the aetheist you claim, why do you even get involved in any kind of religious discussions? They will not affect you, religion will not affect you, you will not be forced to join a religion, you will not be forced to join into any of their ceremonies. As a leader of a religion, Henry is free under the constitution to preach to his followers. You may not like the message, but that is too bad for you.

You once yapped at me ad nauseum of the importance of the separation of church and state, blue. Was that all just opportunistic political posturing on your part?

Freedom of religion was never meant to be a blanket protection against being tried for human rights offences...and yes religion does affect me when the clergy is meddling in affairs of the government.

TAKE NOTE: Notwithstanding the rights of a poster on this discussion board to enjoy their religious freedoms, discrimination against homosexuals or any other minority will not be tolerated and will be subject to punitive measures as decided by the moderators and/or administration of this site.

Quote: Originally Posted by Said1

Apply the same advice to yourself. Stay out of discussions pertaining to topics that will not effect you.

Well said...ummm...Said...

Jay

#12

RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

"Freedom of religion was never meant to be a blanket protection against being tried for human rights offences.."

It couldn't have meant to be a blanket; it's an older concept.

Karlin

#13

Re: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

Quebeqois are a beautiful people, and I stand up to defend their right to separate. Yes, even if they were ugly.
If thats what they want, who am I as a champion of freedoms to stand in their way?

Imagine any unique culture being coddled so much, given every encouragement to stay within a larger framework of political and economic Canada, and still demanding to be let out.

Furthermore, upon separation, there will be some who will demand to make it rough on them to separate, but I want a better world and believe that we should give them every bit of help we can to get started off in their own national way.

if it matters - I was born in Alberta in the 1950s, lived there until a few years ago.

FREE QUEBEC !! They have a socialist system that I would die for, having lived in the "mean province" all those years. I love their culture and their close-knit kinship, something sorely lacking in most of Alberta where it seems to be all about "me VS. you".

---------
About Dief's pledge, just replace "Canadian" with "person", and see if it works... it does! so its about all people, not just people within a separate unit called Canada. This is whats different about the world now than in Dief's time. The lines are blurred now, nations are not as well defined, its an evolution to the point where the human race is one, someday. Dief saw this, hence the final line!!
There are lots of people fighting this advancement, making friction between peoples in order to create hatred so that these deliniations between you and me will continue.

I pledge to try and unite people at every opportunity.

and I'll make a small change in that dangerous third line too...

I am a person, a free person,
Free to speak without fear,
Free to not worship any God,
Free to stand for what I think right,
Free to oppose what I believe wrong,
Free to choose those who shall govern my country.
This heritage of freedom, I pledge to uphold,
For myself and all mankind.

canadapledge

#14

RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

Any separation leads to economic depression. If Quebec becomes an independent country it will take 10-15 years to bring Quebec back to the point were it was before separation. Former Soviet Union is the great example of it. Do Quebecers want to sacrifice their well been for the independence? That’s the question.

s_lone

#15

Re: RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by canadapledge

Any separation leads to economic depression. If Quebec becomes an independent country it will take 10-15 years to bring Quebec back to the point were it was before separation. Former Soviet Union is the great example of it. Do Quebecers want to sacrifice their well been for the independence? That’s the question.

You seem to say this as if it was a universal law dictated by God. No doubt that things would be more fragile after seperation but let's not generalize. If Quebec's economy goes down, the rest of Canada will suffer considerable side-effects. It's gonna be in everyone's interest to cooperate and stay adult about the whole situation. I have faith in Quebecers and Canadians that Quebec's seperation can be positive for everyone. Don't forget what we've kept repeating forever. We want to conserve a serious ecomonic union with the rest of Canada. Sovereignty-association anyone?

But of course, it seems we're not mature enough to contemplate that option in 2005. It seems that if we split, it'ill be like two immature teenage lovers splitting and ignoring each other.

Andem

Free Thinker

#16

RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

S_lone:

You seem to not recognise the fact that Quebec is a have not province. It is impossible to sustain any current quality of life which is present in Quebec, and this sovereign-by-association idea is completely absurd. It would CONTINUE to take from Canada as Quebec does now, but in higher quantity.

"We" aren't "immature teenagers" fighting over something. Quebec would be better described as a crying toddler and Canada the parent if it doesn't get the transfers and money they want. The best analogy I can think of right now.

jimmoyer

#17

RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

What about letting Quebec secede, but Canada keeps Montreal ?

LOL !!!

Isn't that where the CBC headquarters is ?

Vanni Fucci

Free Thinker

#18

Re: RE: Canadian Bill of Righ

Jun 28th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Did you know that Tommy Douglas instituted a bill of rights for Saskatchewan when he was Premier? It came not just before Dief's bill of rights, but before the UN bill of rights.

Yes I did know that Rev...George Strombopopodopoulous told me... :P

Cathou

#19

Re: RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

What about letting Quebec secede, but Canada keeps Montreal ?

LOL !!!

Isn't that where the CBC headquarters is ?

hard, when nearly half of montreal is french and separatist.

and canada pledge, why the separation would absolutely lead to economical depression ? we still have our industry, ressources and economy...

bluealberta

#20

Re: RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Cathou

Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer
What about letting Quebec secede, but Canada keeps Montreal ?

LOL !!!

Isn't that where the CBC headquarters is ?
hard, when nearly half of montreal is french and separatist.

and canada pledge, why the separation would absolutely lead to economical depression ? we still have our industry, ressources and economy...

With respect, Cat, Quebec is currently a recepient of transfer payments. How would Quebec replace this "income" without being part of Canada? Sovereignty Association would not include transfer payments to Quebec, I can assure you.

Numure

#21

Re: RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Andem

S_lone:

You seem to not recognise the fact that Quebec is a have not province. It is impossible to sustain any current quality of life which is present in Quebec, and this sovereign-by-association idea is completely absurd. It would CONTINUE to take from Canada as Quebec does now, but in higher quantity.

"We" aren't "immature teenagers" fighting over something. Quebec would be better described as a crying toddler and Canada the parent if it doesn't get the transfers and money they want. The best analogy I can think of right now.

1/5th to 1/4 Of Canada's total GDP is in Québec. We produce more for Canada, then the population of Canada that we have.

Numure

#22

Re: RE: Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism

Jun 28th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by bluealberta

Quote: Originally Posted by Cathou
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer
What about letting Quebec secede, but Canada keeps Montreal ?

LOL !!!

Isn't that where the CBC headquarters is ?
hard, when nearly half of montreal is french and separatist.

and canada pledge, why the separation would absolutely lead to economical depression ? we still have our industry, ressources and economy...
With respect, Cat, Quebec is currently a recepient of transfer payments. How would Quebec replace this "income" without being part of Canada? Sovereignty Association would not include transfer payments to Quebec, I can assure you.

How much money does the federal government steal from us, yet we see nothing back? We don't need to pay for the RCMP. We don't need to pay for the immigration departement. We don't need to pay for Foreign Relation. We already have our own. Same with Industry Minitry, Envorioment Ministry... and so on. Alot of things, we currently pay twice. That means twice the bureaucracy and waste of money.

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