How would Quebec sovereignty affect other nations?

Machjo · Jun 7, 2005

One example I can think of relates to international precedent. After all, Canada is not the only country with such an issue. Could this embolden sovereignists in other countries? Could it cause other national governments to then become more lenient towards their sovereignists, or clamp down even harder, seeing Quebec as a warning sign?

We cannot ignore it, some countries really do look up to Canada, especially China (you need only mention Dr. Norman Bethune here). So certainly, despite Canada's small population and military, and despite it's small influence on the world economically, this would certainly make international news in a big way, and also cause other nations' views of Canada and Quebec to change in ways we might not even be able to immagine right now, for good or bad. And we cannot deny that, considering many people do in fact try to emulate North American norms with a certain naive belief in our superiority (and I'm not kidding here, I've come across a few who seem to worship their notion of North American culture, no matter how inaccurate their notion is), such a schism in Canada would certainly force them to change their view of the world beyond. In the Chinese mind, Canada stands as a giant in the influence it has on their perceptions of the world beyond their borders, with perhaps only the US and Britian standing taller. And even then, the US and britain, while perhaps taller in terms of influence on their perceptions of the world beyond, are somewht criticized for their role in Iraq, thus effectively making Canada, for various historical and current reasons, possibly the most influential model of the non-Chinese world in the Chinese mind today. (I'm not saying thise because I'm a Canadian, by the way; others have heard the same, and some Chiense friends have confirmed it too)

I would guess that certain US organizations, such as US English, likewise would gain adherents quickly by portraying hispanic America as the New Quebec, something they've already started doing anyway. France might love this, but then, how would that influence the relationship between the ROC and France if France then sympathises with Quebec, and English Canada perceives France as sly? Unless of course English Canada concludes that, while France might have been hoping for this, it did not cause it to happpen, and so some Canadians might be able to look past that?

And as for the rest of the world? Well, I could see Quebec proving more successful than any English-speaking part of Canada or the US in developping relations with Latin America and Latin Europe, due to similar linguistic and religious roots. English Canada could try to build relations with Britain, but then Britian is increasingly turning to Europe. And the US, well, thirty to fourty percent of its population, more than Canada's total population now, speaks Spanish as a native language, not to mention those who speak it as a non-native language!

And in Africa likewise, we sometimes come across the English-French language debate, so I'd suposed that that would also play out in the ROC's and Quebec's relaitonships with those countires too. Here it's unpredictable, sinse they must consider both language and economic issues. And as for the rest, totally unpredictable.

So what are your thoughts on this? How would Quebec's separation from Canada affect our relationships with other nationas around the world, because it certainly would. Even if they might not notice a big change in policy (after all, for them it's just redefining their relationship with one country, Canada), we certainly would (after all, if every nation modifies its relaitonship with us, that means having to completely redifine our relationship with the world, and how it perceives us.

Again, I'm not taking sides here. I'm just curious as to your thoughts on this.

Machjo · Jun 7, 2005

Sorry, could someone delete some of my duplicats; technical problem.

EagleSmack · Jun 7, 2005

Wow you are on a Soap Box aren't you.

I think the Chinese will tell you what ever you want to hear. Some people like you fall for it.

"A Fool Lies Here..."
Now it is not good
For the Christian’s health
To hustle the Aryan brown,
For the Christian riles
And the Aryan smiles
And he wearth the Christian down;
And the end of the fight
Is tombstone white
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear,
“A fool lies here
Who tried to hustle the East."

bluealberta · Jun 8, 2005

I don't know if it would make that big a ripple on the international stage. A lot of Europe broke apart in the last 10 - 15 years, with not that big an impact in the long run. A bigger question might be what it would do to Canada, seeing as it would isolate the maritimes by geography anyway, and would it further encourage western views on separatism, or would it make western separatists take a step back and take a closer look? You have a good question, though, and I look forward to the response of others.

Machjo · Jun 8, 2005

I'd reread my post and realize I really haven't expressed myself properly. I was lazy and typing too fast, at the spur of the moment, as I usually do in forums.

Anyway, I intended to focus on the impact of Quebec sovereignty's impact on Canada's international relations, not necessarily on their relations with Canada. On the other hand, I also intended to point out that it could also have at least some impact on them as well, none the less, even though it was grossly exaggerated.

Now as for the respect afforded Canada in China, it is indeed high, and good friends I've had for years and who'd tell me in my face if they disagreed with me have said the same. Now I did exaggerate the impact though, in that the only people who'd really be affected, and I should have mentionned this in the previous post but didn't out of sloth, would be those among my more immediate surroundings (i.e., middle to upper class, who might actually have the chance to go abroad).

So why would Canada have such an impact on them? well, they desperately want a chance to go abroad to see the world for themselves, and their second language is English (so that alone knocks off most of the world right there, leaving only the English speaking countries). As for the US and Britain, they're the most powerful among those countries, but are losing respect over Iraq. Canada has had China's respect for years, so if you combine that with the fact that we have English language universities, and student visas which are easier to obtain than in the US sinse 911, and the fact that two famous English language Canadian universities are located in the province of Quebec (i.e., McGill and Concordia), Quebec sovereignty would certainly be a shock to all those Chinese who were hoping to go to Canada sinse most of them, while aware of the Quebec issue, probably can't immagine it actually separating. So if it did happen, they'd suddenly want to re-evaluate how this might affect Quebec's and Canada's provision of student and otehr visas. So my claim that Canada would have such a big impact would certainly be true. Now granted this would be limited to my world, the world of the Chinese educated classes, and so certainly might not have any impact on the generality of the Chinese population.

Having said that, however, I've just thought of the fact that they might solve the problem simply by ignoring Canada and go to Australia instead, problem solved. Bear in mind, though, that this could lose Canada some money and influence, not to mention that the increased competition in Australia and Britain, and to some extent the US, could then cause some students to risk Canada, and for the rest to decide to dump English and start looking for other opportunities, such as learning French, Japanese or German, etc. So I suppose that they'd solve the problem pretty easily. It's just Canada that would mostly be affected.

But hey, looking back on it, you're right, I do live in a bubble if I consider a few universities to be such a major issue. Well, I suppose that it's all relative to the circumstances. My world is shaped by my circle of friends to some degree without a doubt, and I'm primarily in an industry which involves building relationships and signing contracts between schools across borders. It would be devastating for my business, unless I could then break out into the French, Belgian and Swiss markets using French. So yes, now that I think about it, I do live in a soap box. And so anything which could potentially impact my personal business herer in China, impact my world.

I agree, thise thread might be a little silly. Sorry.

s_lone · Jun 9, 2005

This thread is not silly at all.

If Quebec manages to seperate succesfully without any violence, I believe it would have a considerable effect on the complex puzzle of international relationships. Of course, I don't think this would make the headlines everywhere in the world but Quebec and Canada would certainly draw attention on themselves.

Quebec seperation would first of all be a surprise to many in the world who just don't know that much about Canada and imagine our country as a kind of problem-free society of abundance. It would also teach a lot of people who simply don't know there is a strong Francophone society in North America. In the end, I believe Quebec seperation would point out to the world that North America is a great melting pot of cultures, not simply the US and it's neighbors.

Second, I would hope that seperation would happen peacefully, and if it does, it would be a nice example of how political problems can be solved without the use of bombs and guns. I believe Quebec and Canada would both stand out as mature nations for their capacity to solve problems in an adult and civil way.

Perhaps a country of Quebec would inspire other seperatists throughout the world and if it does, I truly hope we will set a good and positive example.

AirIntake · Jun 9, 2005

EagleSmack: You can read the minds of all Chinese people? You know they're just BSing us? You're amazing!

DasFX · Jun 10, 2005