An Angle Straight to Hell.

I don't know where you guys get your information, but much of it is not from a credible source.

Being the only one, who against constant criticism still believes in something, definately shows originality.

Ha, we did not grow out of it, we were conquored out of it, manipulated out of it, and killed out of it.

"Being the only one, who against constant critism, still believes in something, definately shows originality. "

Conviction....determination etc, comes to mind, not original. I'm a Christian, an old order of people, but I'm not original.

Old? Hmmmmm

The problem is GJT... true communism ends up working like an ant hill or a bee hive. You have a series of workers, gathers, defenders,et al... working to serve the queen (or leader). This while ensuring the survival of the colony is not fair in the long run. A hierarchy more a kin to the monarchies we have seen in the past. That is why a true communist society has never existed. Its within in its nature to form a society that is run from the top down. Sure you have eliminated money from the equaution, but it is now directly based upon power. This leaves no alternative for those at the bottom of community, no matter how educated they are.

The other problem is work load. Let's face it some people, by nature are lazy. How is it fair to the people that are diligent workers to see someone who works less get the same proportion of benefits doled out. What generally happens is that the hard workers eventually wise up and stop working so hard. This causes the system to be less efficient.( Less production means less food, for example.) This leaves two options...watch production spiral down until there is a revolt....or to enforce that everyone is working to there maximum capability (secret police).

That is the problem of "true Communism"

Yes, you pay so much taxes, that children are freezing in their own homes in the middle of winter.

Yes, you work so hard, that noone gets paid less than you unless they are just really lazy and dont break a sweat right?

I get it ...

Are you kidding me?

Some of the first discoveries in astronomy, mathematics, architecture etc, happened in communist societies that lasted for thousands of years until they were destroyed and conquered by power hungry morons using religion, greed and fear to convince masses of people to do their bidding. . What a about the Celtics, and the ancient druids? Even Certain eras of ancient Egypt.

They lived in harmony far longer the USA or Canada has even existed, and we are already falling apart.

None of the things any of you are saying have any facts to them.

Sorry ITN, its not an order of old people. You would fit in regardless though...we would be happy to have you. There are plenty of gray hair types involved. :P

Keep it up Jay, I hear its feeding time at the zoo this Saturday. :P

Whatever Jay, just as is the way of democracy, you secure your greed by wasting all energy on the insignificant.

It is easy to follow the heard, than to stand alone, and stand up by yourself for what you beleive in, without your pets to pat you on the back and praise you.

It intersting as well, that out of all the things all of you said, not one of you actually posted a factual reason or anwser to back up any of your supposed beliefs.

All you do is yap about BS.

You know you make Karl Marx look like The Rockefellers.

It isn't my fault the government has gun registries instead of providing warmth to the poor.

There are plenty of people who don't work as hard as I do and make far more than I....it's called none of my business.

Edit: Inflammatory remark

Why thank you

The Druids had a heirarchy that went from the top down. Same with the Celts. Even there mythology had a heirarchy that was lead from the top down. Most,if not all, tribal societies have had a leadership system of some kind. Usually based on the best provider. It was the pharohs that built the pyramids...how? ...you guessed it on the backs of workers. That is not decision by commitee that is a Lord/Serf relationship. Which is identical to a bee hive.

Oh come on ITN...I said you were old, not bear food....besides there can't be that much meat on those old rickety bones.... Really, don't be so hard on yourself.

Zen, there were different eras of Ancient Egypt.

The celts didn't really have leadership, they had jobs. They had Nobels, warriers and farmers.

Druids were nobels. The intellectuals and philosophers, they also had musicians, bards, poets, and keepers of some sort.

It was by definition a communism.

The Druids were lead by a Warrior/King. They had a hierarchy that ran through their society. Just like an ant hill.

The Celts and I quote The elements of Celtic Tradition by Caitlin Matthews.

" The state of the land was always a reflection of kingly rule. If the king was harmonious with his duties and obligations, then the land flourished."

That to would be an early monarchy, with an individual leader at the top.

As for Egypt... As their religion indicates a power structure that stems down from the top. It is likely that early Egyptian societies would follow that pattern. Why would your gods be subject to a hierarchy if the worshippers weren't ?

Morons?


If 10 people are standing around saying the same thing and you think there crazy.....maybe it's not them.


Since you called me a moron...


Feeding day at the zoo eh ITN? I hear the bears like communal meat…

I'm sorry Jay, I'm an animal lover. :P

The Druids were the part of the Nobel class and the most prestigious thereof. Their society was very much like a communism and could be considered a variation of. Way closer to it, then like a Democracy of any kind.

Regardless of that, not one of you was able to give me a factual answer relevant to your apparent point, instead you simply indicated that greed and fear are the basis of your standing. Your are all simply sheep. Just like Matty the American. Everything you said to him yesterday you have today completely in every way, contradicted.

The lot of you enjoy referring to the USSR as synonymous with "Communism", and yet you hammer out the factless propaganda like a gun is pointed to your head.

One would think, that since it is obvious most of you look at the USSR for all your information on what a "Communism" could be and how "evil" and dangerous it apparently is, you would not then enforce such an omnipresence of conformity. Look at you guys! .. Not one of you can point out anything factual or debate anything by yourself. Because you have nothing to say!! It seems most of you are simply afraid of change, and afraid of true freedom. You have even resorted to play ground style mockery, which considering it is about 5 to 1, is rather pathetic and cowardly. Meritocracy, based on anything other than money appears preposterous to you.. To you this is just a big game, and a hobby, in which nothing that is said is taken seriously, but instead is just perceived as a potential opportunity to look for mistakes, loop holes, to exploit so you can then argue about nonsense. Yes, I was angry earlier and made many typos. It was very mature of you, and helped your credibility loads, to make fun of them. Good job indeed. Excuse me for being passionate about the topic we are discussing. IT is hard not to become emotional when subjected to such a blatant level of ignorance. Oh no, an extra comma ,,,,,,,,,

I become emotional, when one bases all his major decisisions on greed and fear, and is too naive to see it. Forgive me for my imperfections, demonstrated proportionally to the intentional self pulling of yourselves back into perpetual irrelevancy.

I am not some teenage Anarchist, point making brat trying to waste time. I am an adult, a father, and I want to see a Canada where my daughters and my son will have the same opportunity as everyone else. Considering, it is no longer even possible to have a real discussion regarding one's beliefs, that is not likely to happen with the way things are now. Canada, as a democracy, will never provide that. How, in good conscious can any of you actually say "the equality of socialism, means the limiting of your potential"? .. The level of blatant selfishness around here is repugnant. When, infact, all it limits is the difference in financial wealth between you and other humans. Is that all you care about? .. Having power over people? That is your ONLY real argument? It seems, that is what you keep resorting back to. The prioritizing of the opportunity to gain power and wealth over your fellow man, regardless of how great your quality of living may be. Without the chance to be ahead of at least some in status and in power. One who needs to be financially ahead of or in control of other people to feel like he has reached some sort of "potential" is a very confused sole. DISGUSTING! Meeting the lot of you, has increased by far, my desire for a communist Canada.

No human has the god damn right to enslave another human, either directly or indirectly. With that said, you entire argument seems to be based on a desire to achieve an indirect slavery. You feel you have earned the privilege of being above some people in status and wealth. That is wrong. Such a thing can not be earned.

Everything you guys have done and said in the latter part of this thread, is exactly what you said you did not like about the former USSR, which you love to keep referring to with such ignorance. You guys sound like one giant pre-plotted group absurdity. You have done nothing here but create a promotion and a diatribe. Everything you said you didn't like about the USSR, you have demonstrated in your failed defense of democracy. As a I said before "I find it a hilarious display of ignorance, that the same wealthy individuals who claim "some of the poorest people they have met are truly free and happy", use their perception of "meritocracy" as an attempt to justify why they so conveniently perceive a huge gap between classes as acceptable"

I believe in educating the people, all people. I believe that no one man having any opportunity or power over any other man in his society. Our entire government does nothing but exploit opportunities from whatever groups they can. They cull partisan votes, reaping detrimental consequences to the proletariat. What you guys refer to as "left" infact promotes nothing even close to the ideologies of what is actually "left". You are lost in your own beleifs. You don't even know what it is you believe in anymore. All your so called beliefs contradict each-other, as you talk about Anarachy, yet collectively are acting as the catalysts for chaos, precipitating nothing but irrelevant off topic bickering.

Jay... it would be for your own good. In the "Peoples March" for true Communism their will be casualties, some innocent some not but it is for the greater good!

ONWARD WITH THE RED FLAGS!

Hey ITN call Jim will ya. Him and Gordo here can bore each other with their long winded speech's :P

Your posts seem to be superior for such purposes.

No free lunch or education here Gordo :P

Edit: Inflammatory personal attack

Why you so bitter Gordo lifes to short man I've gone through the same **** you have with your kids the difference between us is I see the glass half full and you see it half empty Take a closer look life aint so bad if you look around

Actually, it is the other way around my friend. You are certainly not the gang of friendly optimistic individual's you would like to be perceived as. More like an omnipresent dictatorship. I am the one who has faith that we can all live in harmony, whereas, you are the one who does nothing but promote negativity and precipitate punitive damage whenever someone tries to present an uncommon idea. Most of you seem to label anything outside your little circle as bad, and impossible before you even know anything about it.

You and/or your friends often change the subject, argue about unrelated topics in attempts to destroy a debate, and then become obsessed with pointing out any minor differences that may occur in a "revolution" for example, as negative, completely disregarding the possibility we may be ready for the positive. I am the one who has been saying the glass is half full all along in the big picture, and consequently have been subjected to perpetual ridicule, negativity, and blatant disrespect.

In addition:

I never have disrespected anyone on this board unless I was attacked first unjustly. I even apologized in several instances for posts of mine that were misunderstood due to rushed phrasing on my part. I simply thought this board could be a great place to discuss issues. However, after the following occurred, the disrespect level became to high to ignore:

Someone attempted to show my beliefs were worthless by killing my threads because they did not agree with them before they even acknowledged the main point, nor even tried to understand them.

Someone attempted to show my beliefs were worthless by telling me to leave Canada because he did not agree with them.

Someone telling me my beliefs are worthless by telling me I am not welcome at this board because of my actual beliefs.

Someone called me a name, in which case I call them one back. Big deal.

So you see, it is infact, many of you who disrespect me by purposely avoiding the main point of every single post I made, over and over again, to only pick at insignificant details, in an attempt to cause a useless argument deliberately baiting people away from the main issue.

You see, many here have labeled all my ideas, and anything similar, as impossible before I even present them. In your mind, I am a perpetually half empty glass, no matter what I say. You are a pessimist in all instances except that which is sure to benefit you.

All I want most of the time is a good discussion, but it is very hard to get anything other then thread killers, subject changers, and arguers of the insignificant.

With that said, if anyone wants to debate a topic related to socialism, without changing the subject or desire to kill threads, or argue about barely related details deliberately, is welcomed and will be respected

I have many ideas and theories, but it seems a waste to be too serious when noone even attempts to understand anything. All I really want here, is some good fair discussion that stays on topic long enough for both sides to at least understand eachothers points without necessarily having to agree.

I beleive the first step to true freedom is unbiased education, and I get nothing but hatred, anger filled responses as a result of that beleif. Nice "optimism" you guys have here.

Can I get a Kum-bi-yaa my people!