Canada a quiet participator.

I think not

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Meet Canada the Global Arms Dealer and Participator in the illegal Iraq war:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=3668

I have never seen any posts on this board about Canadas involvement in the Iraq war. Just as the US government lied about WMD's (and we all know none were ever found, and the little that was is a joke), nor have I ever heard of the other war criminals, Tony Blair, John Howard etc.....Paul Martin?

Derry claims Canadians know about Canadas participation in the Iraq war because the NDP complained about it in parliament. Well Vanni was pretty shocked to hear it Derry. Shouldn't the CBC be screaming about it as much as it screamed about the US? Of course not, its controlled by the government.

So lets hear some Canadian opinions on this topic since I have been accused repeatedly of straying off topic. Here's your chance.

Lend us your views how the Canadian government (and by definition the population has apathy towards the subject, since they don't demand the resignation of Paul Martin, that is in fact what Americans are being accused of)

It's true, you sent 31 troops to Iraq, small amount, understood. But when you send an equal amount of troops half way around the world under the UN flag and call Canada "peacekeepers" it's logical to assume the same amount in an illegal war can by definition equally call the Canadian government "warmongering"

So if anyone here is objective enough, I'd like some input on the topic, please. Don't limit yourselves to the Iraq war, elaborate on how Canada is the number one supplier of Depleted Uranium to the US and a major arms dealer in the world.
 

Derry McKinney

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Shouldn't the CBC be screaming about it as much as it screamed about the US? Of course not, its controlled by the government.

It was the CBC that broke the stories about our ships being used as escorts and our soldiers on exchange. They also covered the questions from the NDP during Question Period.

Lend us your views how the Canadian government (and by definition the population has apathy towards the subject, since they don't demand the resignation of Paul Martin,

Jean Chretien was in power when the decisions were made. The decision not to pull the troops is rumoured to be because of George Bush's threats to stop trade.
 

I think not

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Yes it was Chretien, but Martin continued it, Derry. The CBC "broke" the story in a subtle way and rumors don't matter. Actions do. And why are you placing trade above killing 100,000 Iraqi citizens if the rumor is correct? Is it apathy? I don't think so. It's called the realities of the world. We sit on the other side of the Atlantic nice and cosy and pass judgement easily on others and trying to defend what is wrong with our actions. Like you are doing now.

We live in a world dominated by greed. And greed knows no borders.
 

Derry McKinney

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RE: Canada a quiet partic

It wasn't subtle at all. It was on at least two of their news programs on NewsWorld and on the National, which airs on regular CBC stations as well as NewsWorld. The Current on CBC Radio 1 did two or three segments on it over a month or so. Your claim that it wasn't covered by the CBC is wrong.

You are really just being anti-Canadian. The truth is that we sent about 30 people who were on an existing exchange program. Most of them were in support positions. You are comparing that to a full-scale illegal invasion of a country to take over its oil resources.

You tried to say that nobody knew about this, which wasn't true; you tried to say that our press never covered it, which wasn't true; you are trying to say that this is the same as full participation in the invasion, which isn't true; you are trying to say that Canadians never spoke out against it, which isn't true; and you are trying to say that our government is lying to us about it, which also isn't true.

If you did any real research you could come up with several subjects to complain about Canada and its government on. Why not try picking something valid?
 

I think not

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Re: RE: Canada a quiet partic

Derry McKinney said:
It wasn't subtle at all. It was on at least two of their news programs on NewsWorld and on the National, which airs on regular CBC stations as well as NewsWorld. The Current on CBC Radio 1 did two or three segments on it over a month or so. Your claim that it wasn't covered by the CBC is wrong.

It isn't wrong, more than half the Canadian population isn't aware of it. That's being subtle about it.

You are really just being anti-Canadian.

If I say something against the Canadian government I'm being anti-Canadian, what exactly does that make you speaking openly about the American one?

The truth is that we sent about 30 people who were on an existing exchange program. Most of them were in support positions.
You are comparing that to a full-scale illegal invasion of a country to take over its oil resources.

When you send logistical support to Sudan and call it "peacekeeping", I can make that claim.

You tried to say that nobody knew about this, which wasn't true;
Half the population still doesn't
you tried to say that our press never covered it, which wasn't true;
They did and still half the population isn't aware of it
you are trying to say that this is the same as full participation in the invasion, which isn't true;
Sending logistical support to Sudan and refer to it as peacekeeping allows me to make that claim.
you are trying to say that Canadians never spoke out against it, which isn't true;
Yeah you did, but you conveniently forget to mention anything when it harms your image as a peacekeeping nation
and you are trying to say that our government is lying to us about it, which also isn't true.
They did lie, till the CBC broke the story. Your own words.
If you did any real research you could come up with several subjects to complain about Canada and its government on. Why not try picking something valid?
I just did.

So heres the issue Derry. You're making excuses for your own actions and shun any wrong doing, thats the Canadian way. You find it morally pleasing to talk about Bushco while not looking inwards and what Canada did and continues to do. If you are quick to accuse the American people why we're not doing anything about it, I would expect if you are objective to do the same for Canadians. This board is in fact called Canadian Content. You talk about party politics, the east bashing the west and Quebec separation. Which is good. The moment anyone hints Canada of any wrong doing on an international scale, you get uptight and defensive. It happens, just like it happens with everybody else in the world. I would imagine you would be more concerned about Canadian foreign policy than American. Patting yourselves on the back for a job well done doesn't fly anymore. You have skeletons in the closet like the rest of us.
 

peapod

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You are under the misconception think that we canadians think we have no skeletons in our closets, when did we ever say that?? In fact we have discussed our skeletons on this very board. I like to think that whatever our skeletons are, when they are exposed, we try to acknowledge it, and deal with it.

You said american people, you know very well we are talking about the american government. Your comparsion is outrageous, but you already know that.
 

missile

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We also made a lot of money suppling ammunition and even,napalm, for American use in VietNam. I certainly do not feel holier than thou & am a member of Project Ploughshares.
 

I think not

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peapod said:
You are under the misconception think that we canadians think we have no skeletons in our closets, when did we ever say that?? In fact we have discussed our skeletons on this very board. I like to think that whatever our skeletons are, when they are exposed, we try to acknowledge it, and deal with it.

Why isn't it ever brought up then under this board? Can you expalin that to me, I may be misunderstanding it. where are all these posts on issues I have raised on this thread.

You said american people, you know very well we are talking about the american government. Your comparsion is outrageous, but you already know that.

Knock it off pea, I've seen posts attacking Americans directly and claims we are a warmongering people not to mention half wits and we're all about money, but of course you already know that.
 

Said1

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There were ships patrolling the gulf too. I can recall a despute about suspected terrorists being arrested and taken aboard a Canadian ship in "international waters" (I think, maybe not). The Americans wanted them handed over, but the Canadians refused saying that according the international law, they are to be turned over to the occupying gov of their homeland. The US was saying they weren't occupying Iraq at that time, and sadly, I forget how the drama ended. Anyone?
 

Derry McKinney

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I'm still figuring out exactly how this game is played, I think not. I think I'm catching on though.

It isn't wrong, more than half the Canadian population isn't aware of it. That's being subtle about it.

Half the Canadian public gets their news from US sources.

If I say something against the Canadian government I'm being anti-Canadian, what exactly does that make you speaking openly about the American one?

You aren't just going after the Canadian government though. When you do, you show a certain amount of ignorance of our parliamentary system because the opposition and open debate are an integral part of our system. It is very similar to the British system in that way. Your system does not favour open debate, which is why Galloway was able to make your Senate look like inept clowns.

You are going after the CBC, which is an arms-length crown corporation and is not "controlled" by the government. It is, in truth, critical of the government on a daily basis. It has also won international awards for its journalistic standards. Trying to paint it as some latter-day version of Pravda doesn't work because it isn't true.

You are going after the posters on this board. That is very clear in your posts. You obviously feel that because they point out valid problems with US policy, complete with links, that they are anti-American. You've said so several times. You are playing a game of tit for tat, except that you keep going after the empty tit. If you were milking a cow, she'd kick you.


When you send logistical support to Sudan and call it "peacekeeping", I can make that claim.

Not if you understand anything about Canada, the UN, the AU, or the situation in Sudan.

Half the population still doesn't

So? Well over half of your country still believes that Saddam masterminded the 9-11 attacks.

They did lie, till the CBC broke the story. Your own words.

They didn't mention it. That is far different than lying to the UN, lying to the world, and going on every talk show you can find to tell lies to your own people.

The press, in a working democracy, is supposed to find and publicize things like our exchange soldiers. The CBC did. How come the American broadcasters didn't do the same when you president was lying to you? The opposition in our system is supposed to ask questions and hold the government to account. How many of your Democrats came out asking questions about the illegal invasion of Iraq?


I just did.

No, you've snagged what amounts to a minor detail. You are trying to make it into something more through purposeful misconstruation. I've never claimed that Canada was innocent. I, in fact, said that, "If you did any real research you could come up with several subjects to complain about Canada and its government on." You just quoted me saying it. Find something to complain about and I'll agree with you. Hell, if you take the time to find something valid, I'll even help you. It isn't like I'm a supporter of the Martin government or anything.

You need to find something valid though. Maybe you should try looking into CIDA or Canada supporting the GM seed thing or Martin reflagging his boats or something. There's no shortage of things to be critical of. I don't know why you've picked something where you have no case.
 

Said1

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The truth is that we sent about 30 people who were on an existing exchange program. Most of them were in support positions.
You are comparing that to a full-scale illegal invasion of a country to take over its oil resources.

When you send logistical support to Sudan and call it "peacekeeping", I can make that claim.

That's just funny. Heeheehhahahoho.

Hmmmm 120,000 vs 30. Ok, you got us.
 

I think not

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Derry McKinney said:
I'm still figuring out exactly how this game is played, I think not. I think I'm catching on though.

It isn't wrong, more than half the Canadian population isn't aware of it. That's being subtle about it.

Half the Canadian public gets their news from US sources.

And your point?

If I say something against the Canadian government I'm being anti-Canadian, what exactly does that make you speaking openly about the American one?

You aren't just going after the Canadian government though. When you do, you show a certain amount of ignorance of our parliamentary system because the opposition and open debate are an integral part of our system. It is very similar to the British system in that way. Your system does not favour open debate, which is why Galloway was able to make your Senate look like inept clowns.

I guess some of the US news Canadians get on open debate doesn't include three 24 hour channels on CSPAN. Which by the way also covers Canadian and British parliament.

You are going after the CBC, which is an arms-length crown corporation and is not "controlled" by the government. It is, in truth, critical of the government on a daily basis. It has also won international awards for its journalistic standards. Trying to paint it as some latter-day version of Pravda doesn't work because it isn't true.

Fox and Al Jazeera have received awards also, would you say they aren't biased? I think not.

You are going after the posters on this board. That is very clear in your posts. You obviously feel that because they point out valid problems with US policy, complete with links, that they are anti-American. You've said so several times.

You're lying, flat out you're lying. I challenge you to find any of my posts that claim links to US government crap is anti-American

You are playing a game of tit for tat, except that you keep going after the empty tit. If you were milking a cow, she'd kick you.
When you send logistical support to Sudan and call it "peacekeeping", I can make that claim.

Not if you understand anything about Canada, the UN, the AU, or the situation in Sudan.

You're making excuses again, so please define for me your role in Iraq, so I can understand where it is you are coming from. what purpose does your role serve in Iraq?

Half the population still doesn't

So? Well over half of your country still believes that Saddam masterminded the 9-11 attacks.

You wouldnt hear me say anything else. I agree with you here. Why look whos playing tit for tat.

They did lie, till the CBC broke the story. Your own words.

They didn't mention it. That is far different than lying to the UN, lying to the world, and going on every talk show you can find to tell lies to your own people.

They didn't mention it? good one Derry, thats an intelligent argument.

The press, in a working democracy, is supposed to find and publicize things like our exchange soldiers. The CBC did. How come the American broadcasters didn't do the same when you president was lying to you? The opposition in our system is supposed to ask questions and hold the government to account. How many of your Democrats came out asking questions about the illegal invasion of Iraq?

I suppose you're one of those Canadians that doesn't get his news from US sources. To answer your question, many of them.


I just did.

No, you've snagged what amounts to a minor detail. You are trying to make it into something more through purposeful misconstruation. I've never claimed that Canada was innocent. I, in fact, said that, "If you did any real research you could come up with several subjects to complain about Canada and its government on." You just quoted me saying it. Find something to complain about and I'll agree with you. Hell, if you take the time to find something valid, I'll even help you. It isn't like I'm a supporter of the Martin government or anything.

I know you support the NDP, I read your posts, this isn't about Martin in particular, this is about the Canadian government in general. Then please tell me again what role does Canada play in Iraq.

You need to find something valid though. Maybe you should try looking into CIDA or Canada supporting the GM seed thing or Martin reflagging his boats or something. There's no shortage of things to be critical of. I don't know why you've picked something where you have no case.

Once again tell me what purpose did Canada have in Iraq. Since I have no case.
 

missile

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Saddam had to be taken out. But,this should have happened during the first
Gulf War,when he committed the worst ecological crime in modern history-setting all the kuwaiti oil fields aflame!
 

Derry McKinney

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I can recall a despute about suspected terrorists being arrested and taken aboard a Canadian ship in "international waters" (I think, maybe not). The Americans wanted them handed over, but the Canadians refused saying that according the international law, they are to be turned over to the occupying gov of their homeland. The US was saying they weren't occupying Iraq at that time, and sadly, I forget how the drama ended. Anyone?

That was about them being sent to Guantanamo if it's the thing I'm thinking about, Said. I believe they were turned over to either the ICC or the Brits in the end, but I can't remember for sure.
 

peapod

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Yes I have always wondered about that. In the first gulf war, the americans were at his doorstep. I want to know why!!!! they did not and get him. Why did they encourage the iraqi people to rise up againist sadam, and they leave them to be killed. Why?? will someone please answer this question.
 

I think not

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Re: RE: Canada a quiet participator.

Said1 said:
The truth is that we sent about 30 people who were on an existing exchange program. Most of them were in support positions.
You are comparing that to a full-scale illegal invasion of a country to take over its oil resources.

When you send logistical support to Sudan and call it "peacekeeping", I can make that claim.

That's just funny. Heeheehhahahoho.

Hmmmm 120,000 vs 30. Ok, you got us.

I see Said1. Numbers matter. Good point.

80% of the depleted uranium dropped in Iraq was manufactured in Canada.

Heeheehahahoho

"Meet the Canada you never knew, the global arms dealer with a heart of gold."---from the link above
 

I think not

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peapod said:
Yes I have always wondered about that. In the first gulf war, the americans were at his doorstep. I want to know why!!!! they did not and get him. Why did they encourage the iraqi people to rise up againist sadam, and they leave them to be killed. Why?? will someone please answer this question.

Your answer
 

I think not

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Re: RE: Canada a quiet partic

Derry McKinney said:
Don't ever call me a liar again, I think not. It comes across in every one of your posts.

You called me one by making that statement. Don't ever say that again. Because it isn't true.